Topic: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles

[Kytim89]

With the announcement of such games as The Last Story, Dragon Quest 10, Arc Rise Fantasia, and many others, I have to wonder what the future holds for the RPG genre on Nintendo's consoles. Up to this point, there has been some what of an RPG drought on the wii. However, with the adevent of these games I have to wonder if they will usher in a new era of games for the wii, or will they fade away with the passage of time?
 
A while back on the topic of The Last Story, I mentioned how I felt that a new era of RPGs, or renaissance, was on the horizon for the wii, or their future console.
 
As I mentioned before, I talked about how Final Fantasy 15 would be a wii exclusive, allow me to reiterate my statement. That game could very well be a 3DS exclusive instead. Look at it this way, the collossul success of Dragon Quest 9 for the DS and the fact that it seems like Japan is moving towards the handheld market instead of the home consoles makes me think that Final Fantasy 15 could appear on the 3DS.
 
Overall, I wish to discuss what this RPG renaissance entails and what kind of factors would help bring it about on the wii. It all depends on the profiitability of these games on Nintendo's hardware.
 
 

[Peachylala]

I talked about how Final Fantasy 15 would be a wii exclusive

...seriously?

That game could very well be a 3DS exclusive instead.

Sorry, but I don't think I can handle melodrama in THREE DEEE.

[Kytim89]

I wanted to test my theory that we could be entering anew golden age of RPGs for Nintendo's consoles akin to the SNES era.
 
The reason why I brought this up is that during that era we saw many ground breaking franchises emerge, or evolve. I can not think of two franchises that set the stage than Final Fantasy 6 and Chrono Trigger. These two games even to this day are still regarded as the best RPGs of all time. However, how long has it been since we had a truelly original role playing game that shook the foundations of the industry? This is a debatable topic, but I have the sense that the genre has been on a steady declince ever since. Here is my thesis: Will The Last Story be another popular RPG like FF6, or will it be a mediocre title.
 
I just have a good feeling that some truelly original and groundbreaking RPGs will come about on the wii in the months and years. What makes this so important, atleast to me, is that it just seems like a good time to be an RPG fan.
 
This is where my diatribe get the most interesting. You see, I know that Dragon Quest 10 is going to be a wii exclusive(or 3DS port?), but what does all of these new series mean for the Final Fantasy franchise? It means two things, First, Square-Enix might just ignore these other series and continue with a buisness as usual stuff. Second, they could make Final Fantasy 15 a wii exclusive. But Square-Enix probably does not give a **** about these other series. Honestly, I do not want to see anything Crystal Chronicles related from them on a Nintendo product for a very long time.
 
One might think that I am insane for suggesting that Final Fantasy 15 should be a wii exclusive, or that it is my usual nonsense about how certain games need to be on certain systems. No. I just feel like the return of a true Final Fantasy game to a Nintendo system is long over due. The HD consoles have had their fill with FF 13 and soon to be 14. They have the various spin off titles and what not to keep them buisy. What about us, the Nintendo fans? Is this a pipe dream? Most likely yes, but a man can have his dream.
 
A lot of Final Fantasy fans, including myself, are saying that the series needs to return to its roots and I could not agree more with this sentiment. Square-Enix, give us a Final Fantasy 9-esque installment on the wii. What better place to return to its roots than on the system that it first emerged?
 
However, I realize tha my dream will never come to fruition, but I do realize that we may have the closet thing to a true Final Fantasy game for wii already in the pipeline and that Game is the Last Story. So, in a way, Last Story is Final Fantasy 15 in some sense.

[Stratos]

Isn't Final Fantasy's roots pre-3D? Why 9?

[broodwars]

The problem with your hypothesis is that we've had notable RPGs on Nintendo consoles before like Skies of Aracadia Legends; Ogre Battle 64; Tales of Symphonia; and the Baten Kaitos games.  In the end, though, people (sadly) don't buy them in large enough numbers and the RPG developers go elsewhere.  We haven't had solid RPG support on a Nintendo console since the SNES.  Maybe it's the technical limitations of the post-SNES Nintendo consoles, maybe it's Nintendo's indifference to 3rd party support, or maybe the audience for Nintendo consoles just doesn't care about RPGs.  I don't know, but I sense that nothing has really changed in any of those 3 problems with the N64 and GameCube, so I doubt these sudden Wii RPGs are going to change anything.
 
The other big problem I see reading into this Wii RPG lineup (with the exception of possibly Xenoblade) is that there really isn't a "must have" in that list.  The Last Story looks pretty average, Dragon Quest 10 is probably going to be yet another coat of paint on Dragon Quest 1, Arc Rise Fantasia looks pretty awful, and Xenoblade is an unknown quantity.  Tales of Graces could perhaps be a "must have" game, but it's looking less likely with each passing month that we'll see that game in the West.  The game that sold me on purchasing a PS3 was Valkyria Chronicles, but I don't see an upcoming Wii RPG that makes me stop and go "damn, I want that game right now" and would make me want to go out and buy a Wii right this very minute (if I didn't already have one).  What upcoming RPG is going to spark a sudden surge in sales that causes developers to just spam RPGs on the console?  I don't see it.
 
And just to make sure this is clear, this isn't a "Wii thing" with me.  I just don't find the lineup to be particularly strong or interesting, especially because I've been playing RPGs for nearly 2 decades now.  I feel like the only reason we're seeing the RPGs we do have coming is because with the Wii developers can essentially just devote resources into making a PS2 game, but between the PS3's gaining momentum and the rise of the handhelds I don't see this going anywhere afterwards.  Maybe if we saw this lineup in 2007 when the Wii was still young and there was still time for the console to establish itself as a great home for RPGs, then I could believe this could lead to something.  For now, I would just hope the games exceed all expectations and that the games are good.  We'll see what happens from there.
 
As for DQ X going to the 3DS instead of the Wii, I do see that happening.  Despite the laziness Because of the difficulties involved in making a DQ game, they do take an eternity for Square-Enix to make.  By the time the game is ready, I think the Wii will be done as a primary gaming console.  From that point, they either make it a Wii 2 or 3DS game, and with the rise of the handheld market in Japan I don't see why you make it a Wii 2 game unless you dual-platform it like Ninokuni's doing.

[Ian Sane]

Until I actually see screenshots of DQ X I'm hesitant to include it as a Wii release.  As broodwars mentioned by the time it's ready it might make sense to release it as a 3DS or Wii 2 title.

The RPG genre is not one that Nintendo seems particularly interested in.  They themselves are not going to provide enough RPGs to bring any console of their's to a SNES-like golden age of RPGs.  They need third party support for that.  The SNES had support from almost every significant RPG developer of the time, including Square and Enix as exclusives.  The only RPGs you didn't see were from Sega or were ones that used CD technology which Nintendo obviously didn't offer at the time.

Third party support is essential to have a strong lineup for virtually any genre.  The only genres that have been strong on a Nintendo console since the N64 have been ones that Nintendo themselves are strong at.  The Wii is a pretty awesome console for platformers and that makes sense since Mario, Donkey Kong, Wario and Kirby are all big names in platforming and they're all Nintendo exclusives.  For better or worse Wii Sports' success has attracted many games of that genre to the Wii (unfortunately no one but Nintendo makes good ones).  The FPS genre, for example, is very weak on the Wii and that makes sense because Nintendo does not make FPS games and the third party support is very weak so third parties aren't bringing their big FPS games to the console either.  Meanwhile Sony and MS have their own popular FPS franchises (Killzone, Restistance, Halo) and healthy third party support and both consoles are strong FPS systems.

Third party support is the answer for any genre shortcomings on a Nintendo console.  That issue has to be resolved first and foremost.  After that then it all depends on what console seems like the ideal choice for devs of that genre to support.  Nintendo can influence that by their own games.

[BlackNMild2k1]

But DQ games always show up at the end of a consoles life cycle when it has it's largest install base. It's possible that DQX could move and be a 1st year Next-Gen title, but old habits die hard.


Some Forward Compatibility might be the best route to take since it will be out really late in Wii life if it comes at all.

[Kytim89]

The problem with your hypothesis is that we've had notable RPGs on Nintendo consoles before like Skies of Aracadia Legends; Ogre Battle 64; Tales of Symphonia; and the Baten Kaitos games.  In the end, though, people (sadly) don't buy them in large enough numbers and the RPG developers go elsewhere.  We haven't had solid RPG support on a Nintendo console since the SNES.  Maybe it's the technical limitations of the post-SNES Nintendo consoles, maybe it's Nintendo's indifference to 3rd party support, or maybe the audience for Nintendo consoles just doesn't care about RPGs.  I don't know, but I sense that nothing has really changed in any of those 3 problems with the N64 and GameCube, so I doubt these sudden Wii RPGs are going to change anything.
 
The other big problem I see reading into this Wii RPG lineup (with the exception of possibly Xenoblade) is that there really isn't a "must have" in that list.  The Last Story looks pretty average, Dragon Quest 10 is probably going to be yet another coat of paint on Dragon Quest 1, Arc Rise Fantasia looks pretty awful, and Xenoblade is an unknown quantity.  Tales of Graces could perhaps be a "must have" game, but it's looking less likely with each passing month that we'll see that game in the West.  The game that sold me on purchasing a PS3 was Valkyria Chronicles, but I don't see an upcoming Wii RPG that makes me stop and go "damn, I want that game right now" and would make me want to go out and buy a Wii right this very minute (if I didn't already have one).  What upcoming RPG is going to spark a sudden surge in sales that causes developers to just spam RPGs on the console?  I don't see it.
 
And just to make sure this is clear, this isn't a "Wii thing" with me.  I just don't find the lineup to be particularly strong or interesting, especially because I've been playing RPGs for nearly 2 decades now.  I feel like the only reason we're seeing the RPGs we do have coming is because with the Wii developers can essentially just devote resources into making a PS2 game, but between the PS3's gaining momentum and the rise of the handhelds I don't see this going anywhere afterwards.  Maybe if we saw this lineup in 2007 when the Wii was still young and there was still time for the console to establish itself as a great home for RPGs, then I could believe this could lead to something.  For now, I would just hope the games exceed all expectations and that the games are good.  We'll see what happens from there.
 
As for DQ X going to the 3DS instead of the Wii, I do see that happening.  Despite the laziness Because of the difficulties involved in making a DQ game, they do take an eternity for Square-Enix to make.  By the time the game is ready, I think the Wii will be done as a primary gaming console.  From that point, they either make it a Wii 2 or 3DS game, and with the rise of the handheld market in Japan I don't see why you make it a Wii 2 game unless you dual-platform it like Ninokuni's doing.

My whole question to this is whether this will change? Will it turn around? This is the whole point of disscussing the future of the RPG genre on Nintendo's consoles.
 
Where are the sequels to such games as Skies of Arcadia, Phantasy Star, Chrono Trigger? In order for this renaissance to happen these games must come forth and be successful.
 
Could Xenoblade be successful because it is a Nintendo game?
 
Do western RPG companies like Bioware and Bethesda have a future with their franchises either on the wii or the wii 2? On one hand, they would suffer like any other third party developer, but I am interested to see what they could with their style.

[broodwars]

My whole question to this is whether this will change? Will it turn around? This is the whole point of disscussing the future of the RPG genre on Nintendo's consoles.
 
Where are the sequels to such games as Skies of Arcadia, Phantasy Star, Chrono Trigger? In order for this renaissance to happen these games must come forth and be successful.
 
Could Xenoblade be successful because it is a Nintendo game?
 
Do western RPG companies like Bioware and Bethesda have a future with their franchises either on the wii or the wii 2? On one hand, they would suffer like any other third party developer, but I am interested to see what they could with their style.

I was actually thinking about this the other day in regards to the Tales franchise, and it suddenly hit me: Tales of Symphonia is the best-selling Tales game in the West.  That makes sense, though: it's also the only Tales game released in the West that had the support of Nintendo's marketing, because I believe Nintendo funded the localization.  I think for any RPG on a Nintendo console to sell well over here, it needs the full force of the Nintendo marketing machine.  I'm not sure that Xenoblade will get that, but I think if Nintendo does do a real marketing blitz with it the game could be successful over here.
 
Regarding Bioware and Bethesda, that's just not going to happen.  For one thing, both companies have problems getting their titles to work on even the HD consoles, as Mass Effect and Fallout 3 players can attest to (seriously, those two games are probably the buggiest I've ever played, and both have severe framerate problems).  They're PC developers turned console developer.  Their games are PC games made to run on consoles, and not run particularly well until recently.  It's pointless to speculate what their games could be like on Wii because that's just not going to happen.  Their games are just too ambitious (especially with the sheer size of the game worlds, despite all the cut & pasting) to run on the Wii, and I really don't see there being an audience on Wii or Wii 2 to support them developing on those systems.

[Kytim89]

When I hear people say that Final Fantasy needs to return to its roots and I agree with this statement, but what does it exactly mean. To me, it simply means that Final Fantasy needs to return to its pre-Final Fantasy 7 roots on a Nintendo system. Something similar to what Final Fantasy 9 did on the Playstation.
 
I have never played Final Fantasy 13, but from what I have heared and seen about the game it feels very much like an HD return to the serie's roots and also an HD Final Fantasy seven to ten. So, the HD consoles have had their fill, now it is time for it to happen on Nintendo's consoles.
 
 

[broodwars]

When I hear people say that Final Fantasy needs to return to its roots and I agree with this statement, but what does it exactly mean. To me, it simply means that Final Fantasy needs to return to its pre-Final Fantasy roots on a Nintendo system. Something similar to what Final Fantasy 9 did on the Playstation.
 
I have never played Final Fantasy 13, but from what I have heared and seen about the game it feels very much like an HD return to the serie's roots and also an HD Final Fantasy seven to ten. So, the HD consoles have had their fill, now it is time for it to happen on Nintendo's consoles.

Your naivete is as charming as ever.  I'm pretty sure 9/10 times whenever you hear about someone complaining that "Final Fantasy needs to return to its roots," they mean the same medieval fantasy crap with dragons; princesses; and legendary heroes that 99.9% of the RPG genre was until the Playstation era.  The RPG fanbase tends to be made up of people that can just never let go of the way the genre has "always been" (see: Dragon Quest and Pokemon), something that really annoys me after a while.
 
And Final Fantasy XIII is nothing like the Nintendo-era Final Fantasies, except that status effects actually matter and the combat can be kind of hard at times.  The only way Nintendo's getting mainline console Final Fantasy, though, is the same way that Microsoft got it: pay Square-Enix a lot of money.  Nintendo's too stubborn and financially conscious for that, though, and Square-Enix loves playing with the latest toys.  Nintendo burned its bridges with Square-Enix a long time ago, and I don't think we'll see them totally repaired for decades.  Maybe a mainline Final Fantasy could come to the 3DS, but I think it would be more of a side-story to a console Final Fantasy (much like Square does with the PSP).

[Kytim89]

What about that old tech demo demonstrating a 3D Final Fantasy for N64 using FF 6 characets. Well, what if Square-Enix remade this into a game for the wiiware service? New characters and settings and it might be a winner.
 
As for the burned bridge between Square-Enix and Nintendo, I thought they patched up their relationship a long time ago? Although I wish the Crystal Chronicles series would never reer its ugly head for a very good while. An HD wii successor would better the chances of Final Fantasy coming back to Nintendo, but it is still very slim though.
 
This brings me to another question about Square-Enix. What other major RPG titles could they bring to the wii? I would not be upset if a new Ogre Battle/Tactics Ogre emerged on the wii built up from the ground with the newest technology. I want another Chrono Trigger game, but this is another pipe dream. Another Super Mario RPG would be great as well.
 
As for Bioware and SEGA, I want them to make Sonic Chronicles for either the wii, or 3DS. SEGA should make another Skies of Arcadia and a new Phantasy Star for the wii, or wiiware.

[TJ Spyke]

I talked about how Final Fantasy 15 would be a wii exclusive

...seriously?

The game won't be on the Wii, but I could see it being on their next console. The game likely won't be out until 2013 at the earliest (and maybe 2014), so Nintendo's next console could be out. Square Enix has admitted they are graphic whores and will release the mainline FF games on the best looking console, so if the Wii 2 has better graphics than Sony and Microsoft's systems, then most likely the mainline series would be on Nintendo systems again.

[Ian Sane]

When I hear people say that Final Fantasy needs to return to its roots and I agree with this statement, but what does it exactly mean.

I'd argue that Final Fantasy has no roots to go back to.  It's a trademark of the series to always have a new cast of characters each time and to change up the battle system.  Changing things up with each game is Final Fantasy's roots.  You can't go back to that.  If you want to go all old school and play the same thing every time that's what Dragon Quest is for.  The two series are complete opposites in design philosophy.  Dragon Quest is conservative while Final Fantasy is progressive.
 
And it is clear that Square Enix likes to have a cutting edge presentation for Final Fantasy so there was never any way in hell that the glorified Gamecube 1.5 Wii was ever going to land it.  I don't see portables getting it either.

[Kytim89]

I talked about how Final Fantasy 15 would be a wii exclusive

...seriously?

The game won't be on the Wii, but I could see it being on their next console. The game likely won't be out until 2013 at the earliest (and maybe 2014), so Nintendo's next console could be out. Square Enix has admitted they are graphic whores and will release the mainline FF games on the best looking console, so if the Wii 2 has better graphics than Sony and Microsoft's systems, then most likely the mainline series would be on Nintendo systems again.

What would all you guys think if at E3 2011 the wii 2 HD is revealed and Square-Enix teased Final Fantasy 15 as an exclusive of that console with side installements will be on the 3DS? What would expect from that game?
 
This is a little off topic, but despite the fact that third parties are not fairing that well on the wii could eventually lead to a succussful wii 2 experience. What I am saying, and especially for mature games, is that the market is there, but it has to be carved out.
 
 

[NWR_insanolord]

There's no way Final Fantasy XV will be exclusive to Nintendo's next console. It could come to it, but it would be as part of a multiplatform release.

[Kytim89]

When I hear people say that Final Fantasy needs to return to its roots and I agree with this statement, but what does it exactly mean.

I'd argue that Final Fantasy has no roots to go back to.  It's a trademark of the series to always have a new cast of characters each time and to change up the battle system.  Changing things up with each game is Final Fantasy's roots.  You can't go back to that.  If you want to go all old school and play the same thing every time that's what Dragon Quest is for.  The two series are complete opposites in design philosophy.  Dragon Quest is conservative while Final Fantasy is progressive.

What I ment was to revisit all the themes and style of the early games. Basically, Square took Final Fantasy 1-6 and through them in a blender and made Final Fantasy 9. I want them to do the same with Final Fantasy 1-13, but on a Nintendo console.
 
I have never played too much of the Dragon Quest series, but I am interested in parts nine and ten, and I have part eight which I got half way through before I gave up.
 
 

[Kytim89]

There's no way Final Fantasy XV will be exclusive to Nintendo's next console. It could come to it, but it would be as part of a multiplatform release.

I would settle for this, but I could not pass up the opprotunity to point to a Sony and Microsoft fan and laugh and say, "Look what I have and you don't."

[broodwars]

As for the burned bridge between Square-Enix and Nintendo, I thought they patched up their relationship a long time ago? Although I wish the Crystal Chronicles series would never reer its ugly head for a very good while. An HD wii successor would better the chances of Final Fantasy coming back to Nintendo, but it is still very slim though.

Nintendo and Square didn't necessarily rebuild that bridge so much as install a tiny rowboat in its place: Nintendo gets to say that they have Square-Enix on their platforms, and Square-Enix gets to publish abysmal Crystal Chronicles games and Final Fantasy ports/remakes (where the real money is) on the Wii and handhelds.

And I wouldn't hope for a Final Fantasy 9-style "homage" mainline Final Fantasy again.  Square pretty much said that was a one-time thing, and from that point onward they were going to keep looking forward when it comes to the FF series.

Of course, they could always throw that completely out the window with that Final Fantasy 7 remake that all the freaky FF7 fanboys won't shut the hell up about, but let's hope Square-Enix doesn't cave in to that.

[broodwars]

There's no way Final Fantasy XV will be exclusive to Nintendo's next console. It could come to it, but it would be as part of a multiplatform release.

I would settle for this, but I could not pass up the opprotunity to point to a Sony and Microsoft fan and laugh and say, "Look what I have and you don't."

And this is why I'm glad I own all 3 consoles now, because once upon a time I was that petty and childish as well.

[Kytim89]

As for the burned bridge between Square-Enix and Nintendo, I thought they patched up their relationship a long time ago? Although I wish the Crystal Chronicles series would never reer its ugly head for a very good while. An HD wii successor would better the chances of Final Fantasy coming back to Nintendo, but it is still very slim though.

Nintendo and Square didn't necessarily rebuild that bridge so much as install a tiny rowboat in its place: Nintendo gets to say that they have Square-Enix on their platforms, and Square-Enix gets to publish abysmal Crystal Chronicles games and Final Fantasy ports/remakes (where the real money is) on the Wii and handhelds.

And I wouldn't hope for a Final Fantasy 9-style "homage" mainline Final Fantasy again.  Square pretty much said that was a one-time thing, and from that point onward they were going to keep looking forward when it comes to the FF series.

Of course, they could always throw that completely out the window with that Final Fantasy 7 remake that all the freaky FF7 fanboys won't shut the hell up about, but let's hope Square-Enix doesn't cave in to that.

Recently a big shot at Square-Enix stated that Final Fantasy 5 and 6 DS were scrapped because of hardware limitations. When questioned about wheter they would be made into 3DS titles the guy said that they would consider it in time. This begs the question as to what would Square-Enix is going to do once FF 5 and 6 emerge on the 3DS(if and when?) what will they do afterwards? Will they go further into the series and remake FF 7 to 9? How about FF 10 and 12?
 
This puts them in a precarious situation with Sony. I do not want to turn this topic into whether these games should be ported to Nintendo systems, so do not start none of that bull **** where I am naieve or childish, or what ever.

[broodwars]

Recently a big shot at Square-Enix stated that Final Fantasy 5 and 6 DS were scrapped because of hardware limitations. When questioned about wheter they would be made into 3DS titles the guy said that they would consider it in time. This begs the question as to what would Square-Enix is going to do once FF 5 and 6 emerge on the 3DS(if and when?) what will they do afterwards? Will they go further into the series and remake FF 7 to 9? How about FF 10 and 12?

Yes, they did say that, and is there any plausible reason to believe that PR nonsense when it's so much more likely they were just looking for an easy excuse to move the projects to 3DS?  They managed to put Final Fantasy IV with polygonal visuals and voice acting on a DS cartridge, so I'm not buying that they just "couldn't" put even Final Fantasy V on a DS cartridge as well.  As for what they'd do when FF V and FF VI are on the 3DS, they would do what they always seem to do: remake Final Fantasy 1 and 2 again, in THREEEEEEEDEEEEEEEEEE!
 

I do not want to turn this topic into whether these games should be ported to Nintendo systems, so start none of that bull **** where I am naieve or childish, or what ever.

I wasn't going to, because I don't particularly care.  And frankly, anyone who says they would run up to a fan of another console; laugh in their face; and brag about a console exclusive is a childish fanboy and deserves to be called on it.  If you don't like being identified as such, you should consider broadening your horizons to that wide world of gaming outside your own, or at the very least develop a respect for gamers regardless of their gaming preferences.  The more people play all the great games on all 3 great platforms, the better we all are for it.

That said, we now return you to your regularly scheduled charming brand of innocence that is Kytim.

[Kytim89]

Recently a big shot at Square-Enix stated that Final Fantasy 5 and 6 DS were scrapped because of hardware limitations. When questioned about wheter they would be made into 3DS titles the guy said that they would consider it in time. This begs the question as to what would Square-Enix is going to do once FF 5 and 6 emerge on the 3DS(if and when?) what will they do afterwards? Will they go further into the series and remake FF 7 to 9? How about FF 10 and 12?

Yes, they did say that, and is there any plausible reason to believe that PR nonsense when it's so much more likely they were just looking for an easy excuse to move the projects to 3DS?  They managed to put Final Fantasy IV with polygonal visuals and voice acting on a DS cartridge, so I'm not buying that they just "couldn't" put even Final Fantasy V on a DS cartridge as well.  As for what they'd do when FF V and FF VI are on the 3DS, they would do what they always seem to do: remake Final Fantasy 1 and 2 again, in THREEEEEEEDEEEEEEEEEE!
 
 
 
 
Matrix Software recently developed a game called Avalon Code for the DS. It used the same engine as the one they used for Final Fantasy 4, but with upgraded visuals and some voice work. Looking at this game, I have no doubt that they could easily pull off FF 5 and 6 for the DS. The only thing I did not like about this game was it was a repetitive hack and slash with RPG elements. If it were turn based it would be much better.

[Toruresu]

The thing about RPGs in Nintendo consoles is that, like Ian said, Nintendo doesn't make RPGs. If Nintendo made at least one game of every genre, and promoted it as the next big thing, I bet they could see money rolling. Wii Sports did this, it inspired (much for our demise) a lot of similar games (that suck, but hey).

Say if Nintendo made a serious fighting game, like what Killer Instinct was, and it sold 1 million copies, 3rd party companies that make fighters would take notice and would release their games. The same with every other game genre. I believe that The Las Story is this game for Nintendo. They need to market it and be 100% behind it, just like they did with Tales of Symphonia, the thing is that for the Wii, it's too little too late. RPG maker's won't flood us with RPGs even if The Last Story sold 2 million copies simply because we seem to be at the end of the consoles cycle.

This is why X-Box and PS3 have the FPS and the RPGs. Microsoft/Sony don't make those types of games (generally speaking, I don't own either and I'm not aware of ALL of their games) so they get a 3rd party to make a game for them, and then they put the $ behind it to market it and NOT make it fail. What happens usually? The game is a hit, even if it sucks, and the rest of the 3rd parties go "Oh, that game sold well there, we should put ours in that console too."

Square-Enix in my opinion won't marry to one console anymore, ever. The old excuse of "whomever has the best graphics wins" was just that, an excuse. They are pretty much an independent studio and do not need Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo's money to survive, but if they are paying them to put a game on their system, they will do it.

Nintendo needs to support these type of games that are exclusive in any way possible. They usually don't because they don't want to be related to crappy games, but all they need to do is try the game themselves. If it's a good game, exclusive and by a 3rd party, they need to use the full force of their marketing to make it sell, just like Sony and Microsoft do.

[NWR_insanolord]

As for the burned bridge between Square-Enix and Nintendo, I thought they patched up their relationship a long time ago? Although I wish the Crystal Chronicles series would never reer its ugly head for a very good while. An HD wii successor would better the chances of Final Fantasy coming back to Nintendo, but it is still very slim though.

Nintendo and Square didn't necessarily rebuild that bridge so much as install a tiny rowboat in its place: Nintendo gets to say that they have Square-Enix on their platforms, and Square-Enix gets to publish abysmal Crystal Chronicles games and Final Fantasy ports/remakes (where the real money is) on the Wii and handhelds.

I don't think there's any problem with Nintendo and Square's relationship. I know it's not that big here, but Dragon Quest IX and X being Nintendo-exclusive is a huge deal. Mainline Final Fantasy not being made for Nintendo systems has nothing to do with the relationship between Nintendo and Square and everything to do with Square wanting to go overboard with the presentation, which just isn't possible with Nintendo's current hardware.