Topic: Nintendo 3DS Takes Piracy Prevention 'A Step Further'

[NWR_Lindy]

THQ VP is confident that technology in the upcoming system will significantly curb handheld piracy.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/23676

THQ's executive VP of global publishing Ian Curran has had a look at the anti-piracy technology in Nintendo's upcoming 3DS, and he believes that it will be a significant step forward in the fight against handheld piracy.

While pinning his company's recent inability to "shift any significant volume" on the Nintendo DS squarely on piracy, he admitted that the Nintendo DSi was a little better in combating pirates (Nintendo doesn't believe the DSi has been cracked yet).  However, Curran believes the Nintendo 3DS is on another level entirely. "I actually asked Nintendo to explain the technology and they said it's very difficult to do so because it's so sophisticated."

Many publishers have been hit hard by devices like the re-writeable R4 cartridge, which has been outlawed in Japan and has been the subject of several recent piracy sting operations around the world.

Curran pointed out that the 3DS raises the piracy stakes even higher, due to its increased cost of development.  "It's going to probably cost us more to do [game development] all in 3D - so we want to make sure we get a return on our investment when we do it."

[oohhboy]

Oh do sod off. THQ games are generally rubbish. That's your real problem, especially on the DS.

[MegaByte]

This is a really stupid claim to make publicly.

[KDR_11k]

Oh do sod off. THQ games are generally rubbish. That's your real problem, especially on the DS.

Blaming it on piracy lets the company get away with saying "we don't need to change our products, we only need to get some better protection tech or laws!"

[UncleBob]

It doesn't matter - people pirate first party, high quality Nintendo titles and make up all kinds of excuses as to why that's okay.

[Spak-Spang]

In Korea everyone pirates.  It is really quite sad.  But there is a reason why Nintendo waits so long to release games in this country...it isn't worth it.


Piracy is one of those "victimless crimes" that really pisses me off.  It isn't victim less, you are outright stealing from people, and when you do that companies take actions to prevent it.  It raises game prices, limits game releases and much more. 


I am happy that Nintendo is working so hard to kill piracy.  I now it if a futile attempt because it eventually the pirates will break anything...but at least Nintendo is trying.

[NWR_Lindy]

I found it interesting that the DSi hasn't been hacked yet.

[MegaByte]

It's been hacked, but not cracked, I guess would be the way to put it.  Homebrew works through the usual savegame exploits, but not piracy.  Nintendo's been using some pretty heavy encryption, but they've made a few bonehead errors that have resulted in totally compromised systems.  Security is only as strong as its weakest link.  So far, it appears they've done better with the DSi.

[Ian Sane]

THQ uses piracy as an excuse but you'll notice Nintendo doesn't.  Square Enix doesn't.  Capcom doesn't.  All three will complain about piracy but none of them seem to have the problem that THQ.  And those companies release GOOD DS games while THQ does not.

Piracy is clearly a bad thing and it is going to affect some sales.  But unless EVERYONE is struggling to make a buck on a system you can't claim that it prevents you from succeeding when others clearly are.

In countries like China or Korea where everything is pirated I don't see the point of even bothering to release product in those markets.  North America, Europe, Australia and Japan all seems like perfectly good markets and their governments actually enforces copyright laws.

[MegaByte]

In countries like China or Korea where everything is pirated I don't see the point of even bothering to release product in those markets.

If you ever expect to curb piracy, you have to first make software legitimately available.  Nintendo is at an advantage here though since they make money on hardware.  In countries with high piracy rates, game companies seem to price their software way too high for the local market (even higher than their core markets)... perhaps they should take a page from the PC industry and lower their prices.  In any case, digital distribution should make the effort worthwhile since they won't have to factor in manufacturing costs.

[Ian Sane]

If you ever expect to curb piracy, you have to first make software legitimately available.

If the software has never been legitimately available in an area then that area has never been part of the profit margin to begin with.  In that case piracy really is somewhat of a victimless crime.  It's not like Nintendo relies on the Chinese market to make a profit.  Their whole business plan is based on those other markets I mentioned.  So they lose nothing by having piracy running rampant in China.  Now you could consider that market potential revenue if you could break into that market.  But I just don't think the local government gives a ****.  That makes it more or less impossible to sell to that market.
 
Piracy is different than somebody literally taking a physical object from you.  Because we're just talking copies it is all about potential lost revenue.  Curbing piracy in areas where your software isn't even legitimately available is nonsensical.  You are losing no revenue because there was never any to begin with and you could argue that it has no negative effect on you.  The loss of potential revenue is what makes piracy wrong, not the fact that someone made a copy.  So if you're entering into a piracy-ridden market you should take into account whether or not it makes sense to bother.

[MegaByte]

I'm not sure what you're arguing about since I mostly agree with you.  I'm just saying if they want China as a market and think it's worth it, then they have to adapt to the local conditions.

Also, a good point made at an anti-piracy talk at GDC was that companies should not rely on hardware protection since once it's cracked, the floodgates are open.  If every title had its own type of protection, it would quickly overwhelm pirates' abilities to release cracked versions in a timely manner.

[ThePerm]

THQ games are good when they are developed by outside companies. Aki/Asmik made NWO World Tour

also, on china piracy

China until recently was a country filled with a huge lower class. The lower class just got upwardly mobile and there is now a huge middle class of consumers. There are 2 billion people in China, and if Nintendo gained a market there then their profits would rise substantially. Making product available in China is the best way to curb piracy, because before the reason they were pirating was because it wasn't available. As people get more middle class the less they might be able to pirate. Someone from an upperclass might find piracy beneath them. At the same time as China becomes more capitalistic, they will most likely start smiting pirates. This may make piracy less viable and actual sales potential will eventually go up in an exponential curb. The world is changing.

[AV]

Nintendo needs to be 20 steps ahead of pirates to make sure they are ok.

[King of Twitch]

Nintendo needs to be 20 steps ahead of pirates to make sure they are ok.

That's a good thought, but shouldn't they be about 21 steps ahead? Better safe than sorry.

[ThePerm]

why not 100 steps ahead, or 1000, or 1 million!

[King of Twitch]

Now that wouldn't be prudent

[nickmitch]

The extra steps will be great for their pokewalkers.

[Ian Sane]

I think when designing anti-piracy measures the important thing is to make it so at the very least pirating will be too much work for the average Joe.  Every system will be pirated.  There is however a big difference between criminals doing it and your average person doing it.  I remember the Playstation and the Dreamcast had major problems with piracy because it wasn't just some crooks in Hong Kong doing it.  It was so easy for just regular people to do it.  I could probably say that 50% of PS1 or Dreamcast owners I knew at the time pirated all of their games.  It was so effortless.  It has to be enough of a hassle that regular people won't do it.  Because someone will always do it but you're better off if it's just criminals and hackers.

[ThePerm]

Dreamcast had a ridiculously bad problem with piracy, i bet Sega could have gotten more software sales had it not been for the piracy problem. anyone who says piracy never hurt anyone forgot about Sega. Look at them now! It was a bad time to be the target, and boy were they.

[UncleBob]

Reading up on the new DroidX from Motorola, there's some hub-bub about eFuse....

While this part doesn't seem to apply to the DroidX, I'd be interested in hearing something like this for the 3DS or future home systems:

Specifically, the culprit is said to be a technology known as eFuse -- developed by IBM several years ago -- which allows circuits to be physically altered at the silicon level on demand.

This would be interesting - load a particular file onto your 3DS, the chip detects the right command and *bamn* your 3DS is a paperweight.

Now, of course, this wouldn't stop some people - I'm sure someone would figure out how to internally mod the 3DS to remove this "feature".  I'm sure some others will figure out what the "right command" is and figure out how to strip it from ROMs.

But - the average person isn't going to want to pry open their 3DS and hard-mod it.  The average user is going to be weary of downloading ROMs for fear they might be tainted.  Even homebrew (and "homebrew") would be effected - there might be some jerks who would create "Really awesome games!" that do nothing but brick your 3DS.

I like this plan.

[oohhboy]

I don't think they could use that in a consumer level device. What happens if it bricks it from poorly made/manufactured software?

It would also open the possibility of someone remotely bricking your device via the wi-fi.

Banning someone from your network is one thing, but bricking them? I just don't thing such a thing could legally be deployed and neither should it be on any mass market device. It's too big of a liability issue. Copyright infringement is one thing, but to retaliate with property destruction with no due process?

[Deguello]

If I'm not mistaken iPhone and several of the new smartphones have features that will "brick" phones remotely by Apple.  This is generally used to deactivate phones that are either lost or stolen (and this would be a good feature for 3DS as well,) but the flipside of this great piece of customer service is that Apple and such have a pretty good grip on your phone and if you start piracy they'll just deactivate your phone, leaving you little recourse as to file suit you'll basically have to admit to copyright infringement before your case begins. 

It has a lot to do with a business's right to refuse service, and being a software pirate would certainly qualify.

[UncleBob]

I disagree.  Obviously, I can't speak 100% on the legal side of things, but I don't see -at all- how one could hold a company liable in a situation where you used the product in a manner the users guide expressly says not to do and the product fails.  "I got my DS wet! Nintendo should make them waterproof!  Gimme a new one!"

[oohhboy]

The DS, iPhone or what ever the device maybe is a good, not a service. As a good you can do what ever you want to it, including detonating it, selling it, hoarding it, eating it and of course using it.

By allowing the company to remotely brick your phone over piracy isn't something that should be allowed. We all know how accurate the RIAA is at targeting piracy (Not at all), but this would remove even that small amount of legal protection from a company from screwing you over.

What would stop them from bricking your device claiming "misuse" with your evidenced locked in a bricked device which is also the very device they can claim as evidence to your piracy? It's circular. It erodes legal safeguards. The company would become Judge, Jury and Executioner to your device.

It is potentially useful if only the owner could activate such a feature, but it would be far too open to an outside attack for the average person. If this was for some high security thingamabob, that required deactivation over some sort of Tom Clancy situation, yeah, maybe. Like the Presidential nuclear football, but that would defeat it's purpose, which is to give the President access to the arsenal at all times.

As far as existing remote bricking services, if I remember correctly, with cell phones it is possible for the owner to request a stolen phone be denied from the network, but not bricked.