Topic: No Underwater Stages in Donkey Kong Country Returns

[NWR_insanolord]

They're both in my bottom 3 Mario games.

[Mop it up]

Super Mario Land isn't that good, it's too much like a shrunken version of Super Mario Brothers. Super Mario Land 2 though, is somewhere between Super Mario Brothers 3 and World. It's got the world maps and tight control of World, and level designs akin to SMB3. Really, I don't see what's so wrong with it. Add colour to it and it's a top-tier NES game.

[Luigi Dude]

Mario Land 1 is pretty meh but Mario Land 2 is great.  Seriously, what's with the hate for that game?  Yeah when compared to Bros 3 and World which came out a few years earlier it's not on the same level but it's still a great game on it's own.

[Mop it up]

Not to mention that both SMB3 and especially World were released on superior hardware. For a handheld game, Super Mario Land 2 is amazing. That is a high compliment from someone like me, who openly hates handhelds.

[KDR_11k]

SML 1 and 2 were interesting because they had worlds and enemies not seen in regular console SMB. Much more interesting than just the generic "water world", "fire world", "ice world", etc.

[GoldenPhoenix]

SML 1 and 2 were interesting because they had worlds and enemies not seen in regular console SMB. Much more interesting than just the generic "water world", "fire world", "ice world", etc.

At the time fire, water and ice worlds were still relatively fresh. Not to mention things like Sky World, Giant World, and the Plant worlds of SMB3. Personally I thought the second SML was OK, too short though.

[Ian Sane]

I'm not thrilled about either of these changes.  Are they going to introduce some new elements to take the place of underwater levels and animal buddies?  If this is just DKC with less stuff, what's the point?  They have do something different to make this stand out in comparison to the other DKC games.

I'm surprised the underwater levels are so unpopular here.  I always liked them as a change of pace.  I don't want every level to just be right-to-left platforming.  To me the underwater stages were no different than the minecart levels or the barrel blasting levels.  It's just a different type of level to provide some variety to the game.  Yeah, some underwater levels were hard but that's the point, isn't it?  To provide a challenge?  I never felt ripped off like the levels were poorly designed or the controls were crap.  When I died it felt like I just failed.  I consider that acceptable difficulty.

Hell one of my favourite levels from DKC2 was one where the water level changed throughout the game.  It had platforming AND swimming.

Do you guys all hate swimming levels in 2D Mario games and wish they were gone, too?  Aren't they like the exact same thing?

[UltimatePartyBear]

I think the only problem with the DKC water levels was that the fancy graphics made it hard to tell where the platform edges were.  That was a problem on land, too, but the roll-jump mechanic made it easy to deal with.  Underwater, however, Rare required extra precision from the player without returning the favor.  When trying to figure out whether or not you could squeeze between the wall and a shark, that could be frustrating.  However, I think it's the phobias underwater levels trigger that make some people hate them.  I don't think the DKC ones had that effect on me, but I understand the sentiment.

I liked the DKC underwater levels, but I won't mind if this game lacks them.

[Retro Deckades]

Even though I am one of those gamers who generally dislikes underwater levels in games, I remember enjoying the water levels when I first played the original Donkey Kong Country, although it may have had something to do with the underwater music, which was awesome. If I recall correctly, water levels in the original were few and far between. They also didn't have proper bonus areas, which was a smart move because it would have probably made the experience overly tedious. I wouldn't mind hearing the aquatic ambience track pop up somewhere in this new Wii iteration.

[Caterkiller]

Replace water levels with fast paced Parrot or Ostrich flying stages and I think no one would care anymore. I fugure Retro has many awesome ideas they want to throw at DK, I'm expecting something more creative and fun to add to the game. Just so it isn't only running on foot and Mine Karts. I think all flying stages would fill that gap nicely.
 
Edit
I forgot, there will most likely not be animal buddies this time around. Hmmm, well I got nothing!

[broodwars]

It bothers me that what we've seen of this new Donkey Kong Country game is pretty much stuff we've seen before in previous iterations of the franchise.  If the Underwater Stages (which I always though DKC did better than any other platforming franchise) are gone, what's replacing them?  What new gameplay ideas are stepping in, and why haven't we seen even a hint of them yet?  Is Nintendo even letting Retro be creative with this game?  I know Nintendo is bizarre and paranoid when it comes to releasing footage early for fear of people "stealing" their ideas, but I can't see that coming into play with this game?

[Caterkiller]

It bothers me that what we've seen of this new Donkey Kong Country game is pretty much stuff we've seen before in previous iterations of the franchise.  If the Underwater Stages (which I always though DKC did better than any other platforming franchise) are gone, what's replacing them?  What new gameplay ideas are stepping in, and why haven't we seen even a hint of them yet?  Is Nintendo even letting Retro be creative with this game?  I know Nintendo is bizarre and paranoid when it comes to releasing footage early for fear of people "stealing" their ideas, but I can't see that coming into play with this game?

The dude directing this game only wanted to show the bare minimum in the trailers and demos we got. That makes me very happy, again I am reminded of Galaxy 2 when it was first previewed. I remember all of us thinking, unless Yoshi was in a screen shot no one could tell the games apart. That worried me quite a bit, but then the game came out and boom we were all head over heels. I thank it too that first trailer barely showing anything only to later have the shnitzel surprised right out of me.

I'll look for that interview.
 
If this doesn't give you hope, nothing will.
 

IGN: When you were putting together the demo for E3, I'm sure that you were mulling over what to show and what to hold back. Was there anything that maybe you were ready to show, but because of time constraints you couldn't? Anything you'd want to talk about?

Retro: Well, it's not time constraints. This is just the tip of the iceberg. There were a half-dozen things that we were asking Mr. Tanabe, "Can we show this? Can we show this?" (laughs) He can tell you more about his thinking on that.

Tanabe: Well, the thing is, if I was to put together an E3 demo that had all of the stuff that I wanted to show people, it would be huge. It would be massive. People wouldn't be able to get through it. And so what I decided to do was really keep things pared down, for two reasons. The first is that I want to make sure that people are surprised and delighted when they play the final version of the game -- when they get that production version in their hands and there's all these great things for them to discover for the first time. Additionally, I felt like as this is sort of the debut of the game, keeping it pared down to elements that people would remember fondly and things that were representative of the series itself. So, a jungle stage. The mine carts that are so iconic for the series. Just a nice beach front to sort of set the scene. And then a boss fight, to show people what to expect and to remind them of what's come in the series before. But rest assured, there is much more.

Retro: One thing I've learned in working with Mr. Tanabe is that he's very, very concerned about the player. I don't want to speak for him, but he wants the player, once they buy the game, to experience surprise and joy. And you don't want to give that away. So he's an advocate for the player, and we'd rather hold back the majority of the good stuff for the audience. And he had that same formula for the Metroid series.

[Mop it up]

Interesting snippet from that interview. I don't like to know much about games before playing them, so I appreciate the minimal amount of stuff shown in the trailer. I know some people like to learn a lot about games before they buy them, but they could probably find a whole bunch about the game once it is released.

Do you guys all hate swimming levels in 2D Mario games and wish they were gone, too?  Aren't they like the exact same thing?

I've never liked them in any game, period. I know it adds variety to games, but it just isn't a theme and concept I find interesting.

[GoldenPhoenix]

DKC water levels were terrible. I much prefer the water levels in Mario games.

[Guitar Smasher]

I found DKC water levels to be very calming.  I don't get that feeling from many games.

I will miss the fantastic music featured in those levels.