Topic: Kirby's Epic Yarn

[Ian Sane]

2D games often get criticized for not being "modern" enough.  I think that's frankly a stupid complaint and it usually is from dolts whose first game was Final Fantasy VII and somehow lucked into being a "videogame journalist" after playing games for only two years.  If you have any perspective then you'll recognize 2D as being just a different design instead of an old one.

My one complaint with Shake It is that it has stupid gimmick controls that hurt the game.  But they're not enough to outright ruin the game.  Still if you converted it to use the classic controller (which would be REALLY easy, all of it is just waggle that can be mapped to buttons) it would be near flawless.  That doesn't mean it would be the best game ever but it really would lack any major faults.

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

My one complaint with Shake It is that it has stupid gimmick controls that hurt the game.  But they're not enough to outright ruin the game.  Still if you converted it to use the classic controller (which would be REALLY easy, all of it is just waggle that can be mapped to buttons) it would be near flawless.  That doesn't mean it would be the best game ever but it really would lack any major faults.

Shaking? Yes, I agree with you there, it's never really an optimal mechanism. Tilting? Now that is something I think should stay, because it normally works well, plus it can yield interesting concepts. Case in point, the vehicles in Wario Land, and from the looks of it, the vehicles in Kirby as well.

[Ian Sane]

Shaking? Yes, I agree with you there, it's never really an optimal mechanism. Tilting? Now that is something I think should stay, because it normally works well, plus it can yield interesting concepts. Case in point, the vehicles in Wario Land, and from the looks of it, the vehicles in Kirby as well.

The tilting is still waggle.  It doesn't tilt to reflect the actual position of the remote.  It tilts in intervals like moving between the numbers on a clock.  You could map the thing to L&R buttons to tilt left and right and it would work like a charm.  I find tilting in Wario Land and NSMB to be a big pain in the ass because it requires me to hold the controller still while moving around and jumping and doing a whole bunch of things that typically makes me move the controller a little bit.  Since it doesn't actually reflect the exact position of the remote it adds nothing to the game and pretty much just artificially inflates the difficulty.  Games that are harder entirely because the controls are awkward or irresponsive are crap.  That's just piss poor design.
 
The thing is for people that want them they could always leave the waggle as an option.  I don't see why we can't have multiple control options.  Both Shake It and NSMB Wii do not HAVE to be played with motion control.  Every instance of motion control in both games is waggle.  It's all on/off digital input mapped to gestures.  And yet we are not given the option.

[that Baby guy]

I felt the tilting in NSMBWii added to the fun and chaos of multiplayer, but I wouldn't be upset if it was also controlled via buttons on something like the Classic Controller.  I'm a bit of a fan of versatility.

[Mop it up]

The tilting in Wario Land is not the same "clock" type that the platforms in NSMBWii are, it is analogous. As such, it would not work as well mapped to buttons, and would have to go on the stick of the Classic Controller. I liked tilting the rocket buckets to steer them, they were a lot of fun, though if it had CC support, I probably would have used it due to being more comfortable. I don't see a reason to not give controller options, and even if the developers want to have motion control, having a Nunchuk option like NSMBWii still allows that.

[MegaByte]

So how many "Finally, a Kirby game that doesn't suck" puns are we going to have to bare?

So, I shouldn't use "Donkey Kong blows" as the abstract of my upcoming DKCR impressions?

[Mop it up]

I don't get it.

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

I believe he is referring to the fact that in Donkey Kong Country Returns, when DK is crouching, you can press a button to make him blow. From the demo I watched on IGN, it seems you do this to blow away plants, which then reveal those Banana Medallions or the puzzle pieces.


Getting back to Kirby's Epic Yarn, I'm happy for specific sections to be supplemented with tilting, as I personally enjoyed how it was done in Wario Land, NSMB Wii and the two Galaxy games.

[Stratos]

Getting back to Kirby's Epic Yarn, I'm happy for specific sections to be supplemented with tilting, as I personally enjoyed how it was done in Wario Land, NSMB Wii and the two Galaxy games.

Mentioning tilting makes me wish that ill-fated Kirby's Tilt 'N Tumble game would come out. It could be a perfect fit for Wii or even using a 3DS (which I believe has tilt detection) in tandem with a Wii.

[Peachylala]

Getting back to Kirby's Epic Yarn, I'm happy for specific sections to be supplemented with tilting, as I personally enjoyed how it was done in Wario Land, NSMB Wii and the two Galaxy games.

Mentioning tilting makes me wish that ill-fated Kirby's Tilt 'N Tumble game would come out. It could be a perfect fit for Wii or even using a 3DS (which I believe has tilt detection) in tandem with a Wii.

I'm so happy that I am not the only one that remembers the cancelled Gamecube game. Such a tragic loss.

[Stratos]

 

I shed a tear in remembrance of Tilt N Tumble.

[MegaByte]

What is the deal with Kirby games getting canned anyway?

Kid Kirby (SNES)
Kirby's Air Ride (N64, different from GC)
Kirby Tilt N Tumble 2/Roll-O-Rama (which was obviously a beta of Wii functionality)
Kirby (GC)

[Stratos]

I half suspect that Kirby is the guinea pig mascot. They use him in experimental games and if they don't turn out right they can them because they were always just experiments.

[TJ Spyke]

Kirby's Air Ride (N64, different from GC)

What was different? Everything I read about the N64 game sounds like it was in the GCN version, it sounds like they just moved it to the GCN.

[MegaByte]

Well read some more then.  The original was some sort of strange amalgam of Kirby's Dream Course and snowboarding (called Kirby Ball 64 / Kirby Bowl 64), but the project changed direction several times before being canceled.

[Peachylala]

Well read some more then.  The original was some sort of strange amalgam of Kirby's Dream Course and snowboarding (called Kirby Ball 64 / Kirby Bowl 64), but the project changed direction several times before being canceled.

Looks like it.
 
In loving memory of Tilt n' Tumble 2, GCN beta screenshots.

[Mop it up]

I never knew there was a Kirby Tilt 'N Tumble 2 planned. Amazing.
Though, really, if you want to play Tilt 'N Tumble on the GameCube, attach a Game Boy Player, and send me a video of how that works out. The system has a handle for a reason...

I wonder if the thing about Kirby has something to do with the developers at HAL having trouble meeting a deadline. There has to be a reason that Kirby games are often released late in a system's market life...

[that Baby guy]

I told you about Kirby Tilt 'N Tumble for the GameCube last week, when we were talking about Kirby games and I mentioned how I hoped the GC Kirby wasn't actually canceled!

[nickmitch]

I think we need a moment of silence for all the fallen Kirby games.

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[Stratos]

...  ... ...

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[Retro Deckades]

Games that are harder entirely because the controls are awkward or irresponsive are crap.  That's just piss poor design.

If you think games like Wario Land: Shake It! and New Super Mario Bros. Wii are actually harder because of their controls, then you are stubbornly clinging to the past way too much. Either that or your Wii remote needs replacing. The controls in both of these games were sublime. The shake and tilt mechanics add that little extra bit of tactile feedback that engages you just a little more than a simple button press. These are new ways to play these games, and they work incredibly well. Rarely, if at all, did I find them cumbersome or to artificially increase the difficulty. It's a great medium between traditional button controls and "waggle", and I hope that future 2-D platformers continue down this same path (as long as it continues to be implemented as effectively). Case in point: If Donkey Kong Country Returns can be played with the Wii remote held sideways, I sure hope I can give it a shake to slap the ground.

[Mop it up]

I don't know why platformers haven't adopted the analogue stick. Having analogue control would eliminate the need for a run button; it gets a little tiring holding down a button for pretty much the entire time playing NSMBWii. There can still be a D-pad option for those who prefer it, but analogue control is long overdue for this game type.

[TheFleece]

I'm definitely excited about this game. I always felt like I always demand more from Kirby games and for that never felt satisfied with many of the games, but Kirby Super Star came to me by strange and romantic folly and that's my favorite Kirby game. Epic Yarn is setting itself up to be maybe the best title in the series. For me the art style reminds me of Yoshi's Island and I really like that it is so clever in aesthetic and design.
The release date is approaching and Nintendo is sending out ads about it. Now every time there is a Kirby game the box art is known for showing a cute and happy Kirby adventuring while the US box art is known for showing Kirby angry and tough. Well Epic Yarn in the US is showing that side. The email is titled as Fleece, what happened to Kirby? I open the email and this is the first thing I see:


.....

What happened indeed. Now it could just be me, but I thought I'd check here first.

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

The snippets of music I've heard so far for Kirby's Epic Yarn have been brilliant, and like many aspects of this game, not really that reminiscent of other Kirby games. Don't get me wrong, I generally like Kirby music but traditionally, the instrumentation is mostly the same and all the melodies are going for that playful, whimsical vibe. In the little I've heard, Epic Yarn is already displaying more variety in that respect. A lot like Wario Land on the Wii, which is known well for its diverse soundtrack.

I assume it's Minako Hamano again - great composer by the way - who seems to branch into types of music that aren't commonly used in games. In fact, go watch the video of the Firetruck transformation, listen to that music and then search for 'Gurgle Gulch' in the Wario Land: Shake It soundtrack. Notice the similarities? Both awesome bass-heavy piano pieces.

[TJ Spyke]

I don't know why platformers haven't adopted the analogue stick.

They did, years ago. Nintendo has just been on a kick with 2D games on Wii. Platformers had adapted to using the analog stick for years now.