Topic: Donkey Kong Country Wii

[King of Twitch]

"I feel that DKC1's bonus rooms meant something because they earned you free lives.  The DKC2 & 3 stuff is arbitrary."

Disagree here. Like Super Mario World, the bonuses actually gave you more stages to play, so the hardcore players were actually rewarded with optional challenges. DKC1 you might as well go back to level 1 if you need extra lives, start-select, repeat, and rinse.

[Mop it up]

If done properly, collecting is the best structure for a platformer game. There has to be a reason to get you to go across dangerous platforms, or to do things you wouldn't normally do as you play through a stage. Having something to grab is the best way to accomplish this.

Donkey Kong 64 missed this point. There was basically five of every item, which required using all five characters to collect everything. It meant going back through the same areas five times over, doing the exact same stuff. Granted the characters had different moves, but this didn't really change enough to warrant the retreads.

Then there are things like Banjo-Kazooie, which had 100 notes that you had to collect in one run. If you mess up, you have to start all over. The levels are a bit too large for this, and the later ones have cheap deaths that make the process nothing but frustrating. This is one reason why I love its sequel, Banjo-Tooie, as it has none of that nonsense. Sure, it has more replenishable items, like all those eggs and feathers. But those are scattered around in bunches, and reappear after collection, so they're not a pain at all.

That said, I have such limited experience with Donkey Kong Country games! I can't really say if they use collecting effectively or not. That'll have to be my goal for the summer.

[Ian Sane]

Disagree here. Like Super Mario World, the bonuses actually gave you more stages to play, so the hardcore players were actually rewarded with optional challenges. DKC1 you might as well go back to level 1 if you need extra lives, start-select, repeat, and rinse.

The extra step of finding doo-dads to earn the secret level is what I consider arbitrary.  SMW had none of that.  If you found a secret it was the entrance to the level that you found.  I find that more interesting than finding little icons that then unlock levels.  If anything it's inflation.  They can stretch out the game by making me have to find five secrets to unlock a level instead of one.
 
And in DKC1 you had to have access to Funky's Flights to go back to the first level which at certain points in the game wasn't possible.  And the only thing I didn't like about DKC2 is they made you pay coins to save the game.  Having to pay to save is just plain cruel.  "Well I finally beat that super hard level with only one life to spare. Oh I can't save because I'm short a coin.  Well I remember there was one in the this level. *Mistimes a jump and gets killed by a routine enemy* ****!"
 

 Then there are things like Banjo-Kazooie, which had 100 notes that you had to collect in one run. If you mess up, you have to start all over.

Yes, that is one of the worst game design ideas ever.

[ThePerm]

what i liked about mario 64 was collecting coins only accounted for 30% of the game, and the rest was more goal oriented star collecting. Collecting a star is much different, its just a reward you get for passing a test. Collecting coins is just that. So each level had 5 goal oriented missions and 2 collecting missions. This was a good balance. Also, achieving goals was more important than collecting. You weren't held back for not collecting. You could beat the game without ever having to do a collecting mission. Banjo forced you to collect, but it didn't go overboard like DK64 and BKT.

[Chozo Ghost]

If you don't like collecting stuff, the way you deal with that is pretty simple. Don't do it. Only get the stuff you need to progress through the game, and ignore the rest. Yeah, you won't get a complete 100% score at the end, but you can still beat the game.

But to be honest, Ian is the only one I've ever heard complain about that. He says everyone hates that, but I know that's not true. I'm sure there are others besides Ian that hate it, but come on, everyone? That's a pile of crap to say that. But like I said, for those who don't like it, don't do it. Its optional.

[King of Twitch]

"Well I finally beat that super hard level with only one life to spare. Oh I can't save because I'm short a coin.  Well I remember there was one in the this level. *Mistimes a jump and gets killed by a routine enemy* ****!"

Did this really happen to you or are you being a baby? Whatever happened to adapting and rising to the challenge to overcome adversity? The only thing that's rising in this thread is my baby monitor's volume level.

[TJ Spyke]

Maybe he is overreacting, but it is piss-poor gameplay design that the player has to actually pay just to save the game.

[ThePerm]

enough plumbers was a collection game, but it was awesome!

[Sessha]

I remember the first snowboard kids game was annoying in that aspect, you needed to have coins if you wanted to run over the item boxes and if you didn't you would fall down and hear "not enough" funny at the time but still annoying

[Peachylala]

enough plumbers was a collection game, but it was awesome!

Which led to some very hilarious puzzles, I might add. (<3 <3 <3 Enough Plumbers)

[Spak-Spang]

Collecting items when down right can be very fun.  Purple coins in Mario Galaxy, the 100 coins in Mario 64.  But they can also be very annoying and frustrating.  Blue Coins in Sunshine?  What I like about well designed collection is it guides you through a level and helps you know what to do next, and motivates you.

And really most game has some sort of collection aspect that helps guide the game.  Collecting weapons, ammo, ect...

[Peachylala]

Donkey Kong 64 is a collect-a-thon hell.

[ThePerm]

Purple coins in galaxy was fun, honestly i need to play sunshine again.

[Mop it up]

Collecting items when down right can be very fun.  Purple coins in Mario Galaxy,

Do you mean the ones in Super Mario Galaxy 2? Because a lot of the ones in the first Galaxy game plopped you in the middle of a big level, and it was mind-numbingly boring to seek them all out.

[ThePerm]

there was this purple coin challenge on galaxy where there were more than 100 coins in the level to get, but you only had 30 seconds to get it. It was one of those floating levels with the air mines and stuff. It took me many tries till i got it right. Was frustrating, but overall fun.

[Peachylala]

The purple coin challenges in Galaxy 1, some them anyway, had more then 100 coins to collect. I forget which ones, but the challenge Perm mentioned was one of them.

I have to get back to Galaxy 1 again, but Galaxy 2 comes first. And S&P2.

[ThePerm]

i hope some Dk64 character make cameo's at least

[Mop it up]

I've been playing the original Donkey Kong Country on the SNES recently, to help decide if Donkey Kong Country Returns is something I might want. This is the first time I've played it, so I'm looking at it with fresh eyes. At first it seemed difficult, but after taking some time to get used to the mechanics, it isn't so bad. Though the barrel cannons seem finicky to me, I can't say I've liked those parts. The stages so far have a lot of variety to them, both in elements and look, and the animation is top notch. I also enjoyed the opening Donkey Kong arcade game music remix, that was a nice touch.

I know I have only the perspective of one of the games... but there are a couple of things I'd like to see in this game. One is, a camera that zooms in and out, similar to New Super Mario Brothers Wii. In DKC, there are times when the camera seems too close, and I can't see a part of the stage that I want to jump/climb to. Sometimes this results in getting hit by an unseen enemy. I also like the little secret minigames of sorts to earn lives, I hope those have a place in this game. Oh, and the Donkey Kong arcade theme would be nice for an opening number!

[MegaByte]

I also enjoyed the opening Donkey Kong arcade game music remix, that was a nice touch.

Actually, that was the NES game remix.  The arcade version didn't have much in terms of music.

[Mop it up]

Eh, same difference. I like the theme is all.

[ThePerm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hdrcDDqRHk

[Kytim89]

When Retro Studios is done with Donkey Kong Returns, Nintendo should put them to work revitalizing the Starfox series. The Starfox series offers the realistic sci-fi elements of the Metroid series, but the light hearted cartoon feel of something like the Donkey Kong series. Because of this, the Starfox series would be a perfect fit for Retro Studios.

[Adrock]

Eww, no. Let them work on a brand new IP.

[broodwars]

When Retro Studios is done with Donkey Kong Returns, Nintendo should put them to work revitalizing the Starfox series. The Starfox series offers the realistic sci-fi elements of the Metroid series, but the light hearted cartoon feel of something like the Donkey Kong series. Because of this, the Starfox series would be a perfect fit for Retro Studios.

The only people I want even coming close to another Star Fox project are either Nintendo themselves or the ex-Factor 5 employees who made the Rogue Squadron games.  After Donkey Kong, Retro should work on a new IP.

[Luigi Dude]

The best thing Nintendo could do with Retro is to have them work on a new FPS IP that will be ready for the launch of the Wii's successor.  Since the Wii has shown that the western FPS audience is the largest audience Nintendo doesn't have, what better way to get them interested in their system then by launching it with a brand new AAA style FPS.  Retro proved with the Metroid Prime games they're an amazing developer and if given the chance they could definitely deliver.