Topic: Iwata Talks 3DS Piracy, Health Fears of 3D Gaming

[NWR_Lindy]

Nintendo's president sees piracy as a serious problem, but 3D gaming as no health problem at all.
 http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=23041

 Nintendo President Satoru Iwata has stated that the upcoming Nintendo 3DS portable system will have enhanced anti-piracy features.  When asked what the features might be, he declined comment since he didn't want to give pirates any ideas.    

One of the primary issues Iwata raised is what he feels is a growing tolerance of piracy. He worries that "a kind of thinking is become widespread that paying for software is meaningless", adding that Nintendo has "a strong sense of crisis" regarding piracy in general.    

Iwata also touched on people's fears that 3D gaming may damage the eyesight of players, especially children.  He assured that the 3D functionality of the 3DS would be easy to turn on and off, allowing gamers to play with or without 3D visuals.    

While no release date has been given for the 3DS, it will arrive before the end of Nintendo's current fiscal year in March 2011.

[Morari]

One of the primary issues Iwata raised is what he feels is a growing tolerance of piracy. He worries that "a kind of thinking is become widespread that paying for software is meaningless", adding that Nintendo has "a strong sense of crisis" regarding piracy in general.

Game developers should lower their prices or find other ways to increase the value of their games then. Of course, it's never their problem, now is it? They'll just throw more money away on trying to fight the inevitable, and pass the bill on to legitimate customers. One pirated pieces of software in no way equates to a lost sale anyway. Try telling that to greedy corporations though.

[NWR_Lindy]

Yeah, I kinda got a kick out of that statement too.  Maybe we don't want to pay $35 for a first-party DS game, or pay $50 for a Wii game.

It always amazes me when developers are gobsmacked at the fact that their $50-$60 mediocre game doesn't sell.  I mean, make gamers feel like we're getting a bargain, don't make us feel like we're paying a set amount just because everybody else is.

[KDR_11k]

The issue is with the DS, I think the issue is more the ROM size than anything else, it's too easy to download hundreds of games and slap them on a flashcart (and the DS has an abysmal tie-ratio). The Wii doesn't have that issue.

In Europe DS games cost 40€, that IS a bit ridiculous. First party Wii games cost just as much.

[Caterkiller]

Glad its confirmed, I just can't do 3D for very long before I start to feel uneasy.

[GearBoxClock]

I think that the fact that its 3D will curb piracy

[BlackNMild2k1]

holographic DS cart patent

a DS cart using holographic storage that is backwards compatible with the current DS.

Maybe they are using these carts and using holographic encryption on every cart so that it is impossible to replicate since holographic printers are very very expensive and not in public domain. Your common pirate wouldn't be able to afford to pirate games, and certainly not able to share them if he did since it would be cheaper to just buy the games.

[Guitar Smasher]

Being able turn 3D on and off easily worries me as to how much the feature actually contributes to games.  Right now it sounds like just a cosmetic feature, instead of a game-changing feature like motion-control, as I had hoped.

I still believe 3D is only a secondary function mentioned only to distract Sony/Apple, while the real innovation remains a secret.

Oh, and on the topic of piracy: like I have mentioned before, I don't think lower retail prices will any significant effect on piracy, as long as it's still so darn easy to pirate games.

[NWR_Lindy]

That's precisely why companies like Activision are moving to a "platform" model, where the game you buy is only a client and you need to pay a fee/get online to get full functionality.

[KDR_11k]

I still believe 3D is only a secondary function mentioned only to distract Sony/Apple, while the real innovation remains a secret.

I agree, 3D is nowhere close to a killer feature.

[Mop it up]

One look at eBay shows DS piracy is running wild. Even Wii isn't safe, as there are counterfeit Wii Remotes and other accessories for sale. Though I haven't seen or heard about pirated Wii games. It'd be nice to curb piracy so that those looking for legit copies aren't tricked into buying counterfeits.

[BlackNMild2k1]

You don't have to pirate Wii games, just borrow or rent them.

[Morari]

Oh, and on the topic of piracy: like I have mentioned before, I don't think lower retail prices will any significant effect on piracy, as long as it's still so darn easy to pirate games.

No, it wouldn't have any real effect on piracy. It would increase sales amongst honest consumers however. If you could buy two games for $60 instead of just one, I guarantee you'd not only purchase more games, but would be more willing to take a chance on little-known titles and more obscure genres.

Pirates are not customers and should not be thought of as customers. Most never have the intention of purchasing the games they pirate. Even if they did, they financially could not. I'd imagine most average people purchase several games per year (I tend towards about one per month, for example). How many games do you think a pirate downloads? When you don't have to worry about money and everything is merely a click away, it's easy enough to add a game to your list here and there. While it's easy to download a dozen games in a day, no one could really afford to buy that many in that amount of time. Furthermore, most pirates are simply going to grab things on a lark without ever actually even playing it. What might have sounded interesting enough to add to the download list may not stand out enough in ones memory once it's actually downloaded. It'll sit on their hard drive and never be touched again, just like countless other media files.

That's what these companies need to realize. Pirates will never be customers. Restrictive systems and copy protection only end up inconveniencing and hurting the legitimate customers, while costing the companies money in development time. Don't worry about non-customers. Make a better, more appealing product for your real audience.

[BlackNMild2k1]

^I agree with most of that and it was put very well, but there are still lots of potential customers in pirates. Lots of pirates pirate because it's so easy, but if it wasn't so easy, and it wasn't just a click away, then lots of them would actually buy games for the system. They wouldn't buy as many, but there are still lots efforts to be made towards making all of them honest customers again.

But I agree that the hardcore and entrenched pirate will only migrate to where they can get software for free. Those are lost cause non-customers, but that's not to say that if they can't pirate your software, then at some point the right piece of software wouldn't get them to make a legitimate purchase.

[TJ Spyke]

(and the DS has an abysmal tie-ratio).

The DS tie ratio is about 6.0 (about 780 million DS games sold, 128 million systems). That means there is an average of 6 games sold per system. That is pretty good, even better when you think about how many people upgraded their systems (and thus the actual number of systems being played is lower).

I have to agree about price not having anything to do with it. People pirate songs, and even $1 App games. I am against piracy, but I don't buy for a second the RIAA claims about how much business they lose to it. While I have no doubt that some people pirate because of price, most do not. I know a few people who pirate songs and games, and I know for a fact that if piracy was not a option that they would just not play them. If there was no pirate versions, they would just not experience those songs and games at all.

[BlackNMild2k1]

^This is also true, but every once in a while, even one of they may buy a CD, a game or a movie if it wasn't so easily accessible for free. they may not even buy it for themselves, but they would still buy it vs pirate it.

[Kytim89]

The only reason I would ever pirate Nintendo's software is if they were not willing to give me games that I want. What I mean is that Rareware title will never come to virtual console, but if an opprotunity came about where I could put those pirated games onto my wii VC I would probably do it it in a heartbeat. Now, if Nintendo wants to combat this, they should open up to the idea of allowing more popular non-first party games on the service. Rare titles are just an example and there are plent of others that I want as well.
 
The same goes for emulation. I read on craigslist where a guy was advertising that he had modded his wii's hombrew channel to play GC, Dreamcast, Saturn, SEGA CD, PS 1 and 2 games off of an external hard drive. I realize that Sony consoles will never come to Nintendo's VC service, but if this guy has found a way to emulate this hard ware, Nintendo needs to get on the bad wagon and offer it legititmatly so that people will be less inclined to pirate.
 
Nintendo will never be able to stop piracy in such places as China, but they could slow it down in the west by basically beating the pirates at their own game. There is no doubt that pirating software is dangerous and costly for the people who do it, Nintendo can afford to beat them at their own game.

Nintendo should go after pirates the same way as a cancer. Basically stop the proliferation by making the technology harder to copy and then go after the pirates either by law suits, or like I said before offering the consumer the pirated software honestly.

Does Sony, Apple and Microsoft suffer from the same problem? If so, how bad?

[Morari]

Does Sony, Apple and Microsoft suffer from the same problem? If so, how bad?

Everyone suffers from it, and to what would apparently be the same extent. I'd actually look for Sony to see an increase in piracy. Now that they aren't supporting the Other OS option, the homebrew scene is going to have to find a workaround. Unfortunately, workarounds can always be used for piracy at some point or another as well. Again, that's just another example of a business hurting itself and its legitimate customers by chasing around unstoppable and/or non-existent bogeymen.

[NWR_insanolord]

Companies taking measures against piracy is only a bad thing when the measures they take hurt people who bought the game legitimately. If Nintendo were to switch to holographic media it wouldn't do that, unless it caused higher prices for games because of the newer (presumably more expensive) technology.

[Morari]

The companies spend a lot of money in R&D on new protection schemes. Schemes that are all cracked sooner or later. That cost may not be directly passed on to the customer, but it's absence could certainly help a lot in lowering the cost of games. I'm willing to bet that developers would see a better financial outcome from lowering product prices than they would from failing to stop piracy.

[Kytim89]

Nintendo is too arrogant to combat piracy properly.

[NWR_Lindy]

I think they put in protection schemes to delay pirates, not stop them.

[Mop it up]

The only reason I would ever pirate Nintendo's software is if they were not willing to give me games that I want. What I mean is that Rareware title will never come to virtual console, but if an opprotunity came about where I could put those pirated games onto my wii VC I would probably do it it in a heartbeat.

You're blaming Nintendo for something they legally can't do. Stop being lazy and buy an original Nintendo 64.

The same goes for emulation. I read on craigslist where a guy was advertising that he had modded his wii's hombrew channel to play GC, Dreamcast, Saturn, SEGA CD, PS 1 and 2 games off of an external hard drive. I realize that Sony consoles will never come to Nintendo's VC service, but if this guy has found a way to emulate this hard ware, Nintendo needs to get on the bad wagon and offer it legititmatly so that people will be less inclined to pirate.

Nintendo doesn't care about pirated games that are no longer for sale, or not released on Nintendo systems.

[stevey]

Being able turn 3D on and off easily worries me as to how much the feature actually contributes to games.  Right now it sounds like just a cosmetic feature, instead of a game-changing feature like motion-control, as I had hoped.

I still believe 3D is only a secondary function mentioned only to distract Sony/Apple, while the real innovation remains a secret.

How is it not a gimmick period. What could it possible ever do to add to gaming that classical polygon 3D couldn't beside just looking cool.  3D is the next HD, useless crap to get dumb people to re-buy all their stuff without adding anything.

[\Ian]

The only reason I would ever pirate Nintendo's software is if they were not willing to give me games that I want. What I mean is that Rareware title will never come to virtual console, but if an opprotunity came about where I could put those pirated games onto my wii VC I would probably do it it in a heartbeat. Now, if Nintendo wants to combat this, they should open up to the idea of allowing more popular non-first party games on the service. Rare titles are just an example and there are plent of others that I want as well.

Unless you already own the games, then it's still very wrong to pirate those games just because you cant play it on your system of choice. Should sony fans be able to pirate Zelda because it will never be on the PS3? Go on ebay and buy the old carts/systems for them unless they've never been released.

The same goes for emulation. I read on craigslist where a guy was advertising that he had modded his wii's hombrew channel to play GC, Dreamcast, Saturn, SEGA CD, PS 1 and 2 games off of an external hard drive. I realize that Sony consoles will never come to Nintendo's VC service, but if this guy has found a way to emulate this hard ware, Nintendo needs to get on the bad wagon and offer it legititmatly so that people will be less inclined to pirate.

First off, Dreamcast and PS2 and Sega CD emulators DO NOT Exist and will never exist on the wii 1. (Saturn & PS1 are very shoddy)

emulation=/=piracy. I don't believe in paying for something I've already paid for and it's more convenient to have most of my game collection on a single HDD/SD played on one system when traveling. This is one of the main reason emulator exist and were created.

Nintendo should go after pirates the same way as a cancer. Basically stop the proliferation by making the technology harder to copy and then go after the pirates either by law suits

The problem is the guys who make this crap usually live in Spain, Colombia, China, and in other country's that don't have law against piracy (international or otherwise) and can't be sued.

[Spak-Spang]

One of the primary issues Iwata raised is what he feels is a growing tolerance of piracy. He worries that "a kind of thinking is become widespread that paying for software is meaningless", adding that Nintendo has "a strong sense of crisis" regarding piracy in general.

Game developers should lower their prices or find other ways to increase the value of their games then. Of course, it's never their problem, now is it? They'll just throw more money away on trying to fight the inevitable, and pass the bill on to legitimate customers. One pirated pieces of software in no way equates to a lost sale anyway. Try telling that to greedy corporations though.

This is a very offensive comment to me.  To the pirates it doesn't matter what the price of games are, they are going to steal them anyway.  They do it because they can and it is easy.  Downloading music is cheap.  $.99-$1.50 for a song you like is pretty cheap, but people are still stealing music.

It is not a value issue either, because there is a lot of value and work that goes into a game.  You are getting an interactive experience, music, a story, animation and more... each of these things cost money, sometimes a lot of money. 

Now, should gaming prices be lower?  I would probably suggest yes.  I think $20.00 for a portable game is probably a good price, since it is usually using lower technology and sometimes simpler designs (but honestly that isn't always fair or true when measuring the cost of games).  So I would like to see console games around $40.00 as the max.

But the issue of pricing of games and piracy are two different issues and aren't really linked.  I'm sorry, I won't believe people will magically stop stealing software because they believe it is priced more reasonable.