Topic: Pokémon Black and White Announced

[NWR_pap64]

The 5th game in the Pokémon series gets an official title, promises series reinvention.
 http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=22876

 Nintendo has officially announced the 5th generation of Pokémon games as Pokémon Black and Pokémon White. The game will be a DS title, due for release in Japan this year in the Fall. The official website promises that the new games will be a completely new and changing everything. The page adds that more details will be available on Thursday April 15.    

In February, Nintendo showed off one of the new fifth generation Pokémon, Zoroark.

[Pale]

The fact that these are DS games has me seriously nervous about the 3DS.  I feel that this points to it being a very minor update that only adds 3D, otherwise these games would be launch titles for that unit.

I hope I'm wrong.

[broodwars]

And the milking of the Pokemon franchise continues, with a high probability that it will still look like an early GBA game and play like a GB game.  I suppose it's asking for too much to hope that Nintendo "Activision"s the franchise past the breaking point and destroys it permanently. 

[Pale]

It is incredibly unfair to say that the DS pokemon games look like early GBA games.  While it may be true for the battle scenes, the overworld is wonderfully upgraded while retaining the top down classic RPG feel.

[broodwars]

It is incredibly unfair to say that the DS pokemon games look like early GBA games.  While it may be true for the battle scenes, the overworld is wonderfully upgraded while retaining the top down classic RPG feel.

Well, I played Pokemon Pearl a while back and wasn't impressed, but I'll compromise and leave it at "nowhere near approaching the limits of the DS's capabilities".

[BlackNMild2k1]

The fact that these are DS games has me seriously nervous about the 3DS.  I feel that this points to it being a very minor update that only adds 3D, otherwise these games would be launch titles for that unit.

I hope I'm wrong.

or they will be 3DS enhanced titles because Nintendo doesn't want to alienate the largest gaming audience on a single console platform ever!?

[TJ Spyke]

The fact that these are DS games has me seriously nervous about the 3DS.  I feel that this points to it being a very minor update that only adds 3D, otherwise these games would be launch titles for that unit.

I hope I'm wrong.

I think you are almost guaranteed to be wrong. With their handheld systems Nintendo has often released major games near the launch of the next system. The Legend of Zelda Oracle of Ages/Oracle of Seasons was released in Japan one month before the Game Boy Advance launched. Pokemon Gold and Silver were released about 16 months before the GBA was released (it was about 8 months between its North American releases). If anything, I expect BlacknMild's idea to happen and have the games have some kind of enhancement with when played on a 3DS.

I am worried that they may change it too much and do something stupid like reduce the number of Pokemon (you should be able to get all 493 current Pokemon plus the new Pokemon, even if that means importing them).

[broodwars]

I am worried that they may change it too much and do something stupid like reduce the number of Pokemon (you should be able to get all 493 current Pokemon plus the new Pokemon, even if that means importing them).

I don't know about that.  Once upon a time, I could actually name all 150 Pokemon by memory.  The count now has ballooned to such a point that I could certainly go for mass extinction in the Pokemon universe. 

[TJ Spyke]

I am not saying they need to have all the Pokemon be catchable in the new games, just have them be like the current gen (which lets you catch like 300 Pokemon, but you need to have some of the GBA games to get the rest).

[Stratos]

I am not saying they need to have all the Pokemon be catchable in the new games, just have them be like the current gen (which lets you catch like 300 Pokemon, but you need to have some of the GBA games to get the rest).

That was one of the reasons I fell off the Pokemon ship back on the GBA. When I found out I had no way to get certain monsters that I like to have it took half of the fun out of the game so I ignored the ruby/sapphire generation and didn't touch the DS ones until Platinum came out.

[TJ Spyke]

I never got into the Generation III games (Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald), it's the only one I haven't beaten. That's why I was glad that Diamond and Pearl had Wi-Fi so that I didn't have to have the GBA games, I could just trade for whatever Pokemon I couldn't get on my own.

[Ian Sane]

I was wondering what colours they could use and, duh, black and white.  Of course!  So simple!

If they want to change it up it would be nice to take the series into full 3D.  You know, like we all wanted back in the N64 days.  I've been waiting over 10 years for such a game.  Top down games convert to full 3D easily.  And it isn't even THAT much of a change but it will sure make the series feel fresh.  They don't have to re-invent the wheel.  2D-to-3D is that get-out-of-jail-free card for videogame innovation (unless you're not Nintendo in which case it's a ****-up-the-game-for-sure card).

Regarding the 3DS I didn't even think of it but Pale makes a good point.  Yeah the Zelda Oracles games came out around the GBA launch but I personally thought that was kind of dumb.  I didn't have any Game Boys so I bought a GBA partially for the Zelda games but when the DS came out I had a GBA and noticed that the best portable games were still being made for the GBA and the DS had NOTHING.  It took me a year to buy a DS.  So many people own a DS that I figure Nintendo should concentrate on selling those people a 3DS as there isn't so many fence-sitters who would consider the existing DS library as a good reason to buy the state-of-the-art 3DS.  Don't worry about alienating the old audience because this is how things go.  New system comes out, old system dies.  You don't want something like Sony had where the PS2 was outselling the PS3 because the PS2 still had good games made for it and the PS3 didn't have the system sellers to convince people to switch.

Don't matter for me though since, hey, I don't have to buy a new system to play the new Pokemon.

[Jonnyboy117]

If you're thinkin' about my Pokemon, it don't matter if you're Black or White!

...love the names. Now we'll see just how far they go with the reinvention. I just said on last night's RFN recording that Nintendo should reboot the whole franchise, ditch backwards-compatibility with previous games, and reduce the new Pokedex to a much smaller number of creatures with more personality and differentiation so that new monsters aren't a commodity.

Also, I still think it's possible these will be 3DS games. It's only two months until that system will be revealed at E3, and Japanese comics/magazines can just keep revealing character art until that time, with screenshots and real gameplay information held until the new system is exposed.

[greybrick]

I want to see Nintendo take Pokemon in an even more Animal crossing direction. What I mean by that is I want my own town or pokemon ranch where I can farm and sell berries, and raise my own pokemon, and I want the currency I earn to give me something meaningful in the game (perhaps even a pokemon) or for my wonderful farm to attract pokemon for me to catch like in Viva Pinata. There can still be the whole catch 'em all, gym badge, team rocket deal, but I want there to be more user creativity involved.

Holy run on sentences.

[TJ Spyke]

Johnny, I don't see Nintendo delaying the game to make it a 3DS game (and definitely not a launch game like a poster in another thread said). I don't think Nintendo would reduce the number of Pokemon in it since that would really be a step backwards for the series. I don't see the motivation Nintendo would have to re-boot the series. Diamond and Pearl combined have sold about 17 million copies, and HeartGold/SoulSilver have been huge sellers so far. Generally a studio only doesn't re-boot a series that gets good reviews and continues to produce games that top the sales charts every time they release a mainline game.

[Stratos]

Maybe Nintendo thinks they could get even more sales by doing a 'reinvention' of sorts to draw back in all of those former trainers who got tired of the same game over and over.

They won't delete monsters because more monsters equals more toys and other marketable characters to sell to children.

I'm with TJ that they'll just put some of the monsters into hiding and have them only unlockable through D/P/Pt and HG/SS. Even with those games you can pull ones from the five GBA games so it is still possible to catch them all combined with wi-fi trading.

[Dirk Temporo]

And the milking of the Pokemon franchise continues, with a high probability that it will still look like an early GBA game and play like a GB game.  I suppose it's asking for too much to hope that Nintendo "Activision"s the franchise past the breaking point and destroys it permanently. 

Final Fantasy still plays like an NES game and I don't see anybody complaining about it.

[broodwars]

And the milking of the Pokemon franchise continues, with a high probability that it will still look like an early GBA game and play like a GB game.  I suppose it's asking for too much to hope that Nintendo "Activision"s the franchise past the breaking point and destroys it permanently. 

Final Fantasy still plays like an NES game and I don't see anybody complaining about it.

Actually, Final Fantasy constantly reinvents itself, experimenting with new systems and styles (even if they don't work).  Pokemon is the poster child for everything I hate about Nintendo: utter laziness.  Minimal effort, maximum profit.  It's literally the Nintendo equivalent of Madden Football, in that it sells in droves pretty much on roster updates and minor gameplay tweaks and additions.

[Ian Sane]

I want to see Nintendo take Pokemon in an even more Animal crossing direction.

I'd argue Nintendo already took Animal Crossing in a Pokemon direction. Pokemon Crystal, Animal Crossing: City Fold - they share a certain common design philosophy.   But seriously I think having more personal expression in Pokemon would be great.  Online Pokemon shouldn't be just battles and trades.  Having your own little "home base" would add tons.
 

 I don't see the motivation Nintendo would have to re-boot the series. Diamond and Pearl combined have sold about 17 million copies, and HeartGold/SoulSilver have been huge sellers so far. Generally a studio only doesn't re-boot a series that gets good reviews and continues to produce games that top the sales charts every time they release a mainline game.

Capcom probably didn't have to reboot Resident Evil but it paid off for them in spades.  That series was still selling and was still critically acclaimed but there was a whisper of criticism regarding the formula wearing thin.  They could have waited until that became a problem and re-booting was an absolute requirement to salvage the franchise but instead they cut things off at the pass.  They didn't let Resident Evil become stale.
 
So while Pokemon is still successful and certainly still good, maybe Nintendo would want to re-invent it now while it's still a big brand and people aren't sick of it.  Tomb Raider learned it the hard way in that it had to become irrelevant and outright POOR before they rebooted it.  Why wait that long?
 
And if you switch things around while the old formula is still fresh then you can re-introduce the old style later on.  I don't know if Nintendo planned it with Mario but they fucking nailed it.  2D Mario disappears for years, people miss it, and NSMB just owns the sales charts.  And those games are pretty formulaic and unoriginal.  But with the time in between the concept becomes fresh again.  You get a free pass for playing it safe!  Mega Man is doing the same thing.  Classic Mega Man disappears for years, they bust out Mega Man 9 and the series is back in the saddle.  Even if an attempt to re-invent Pokemon fails they can always bring back classic Pokemon.  It's like New Coke.

[KDR_11k]

The fact that these are DS games has me seriously nervous about the 3DS.  I feel that this points to it being a very minor update that only adds 3D, otherwise these games would be launch titles for that unit.

I hope I'm wrong.

Supposedly the Pokemon Company has 3DS dev kits so maybe it'll be another of those games that work on both with enhancements on one (e.g. the standard battle view could just throw a 3D effect on the mon in the foreground). Pokemon isn't exactly big on new features though, no matter what new stuff the 3DS introduces Pokemon won't benefit from most of it.

[MoronSonOfBoron]

Full touch screen functionality, please.

[TJ Spyke]

Capcom probably didn't have to reboot Resident Evil but it paid off for them in spades.  That series was still selling and was still critically acclaimed but there was a whisper of criticism regarding the formula wearing thin.  They could have waited until that became a problem and re-booting was an absolute requirement to salvage the franchise but instead they cut things off at the pass.  They didn't let Resident Evil become stale.

Sales of Resident Evil games had been declining for years, Pokemon sales are actually increasing.

[Pale]

The thing is, everyone twists my statements into thinking I just want the games on 3DS.  I don't care what system they are on. I'm just saying that the fact that they aren't on 3DS probably points to the fact that the 3DS won't necessarily make DS games appear archaic technically.  If that's the case, that means the 3DS isn't going to have the horsepower I hoped it would.

[vudu]

Do you think the DS made GBA games appear archaic?

[Ian Sane]

To me the only games that truly look archaic would be pre-16 bit 2D and the first 3D generation with the Playstation and N64.  Everything else looks pretty good.  Not great but certainly not hard to look at.

Though that actually would make DS visuals somewhat archaic as the 3D (as in polygons) DS games don't look so hot.  The PSP is about PS2 quality.  If we can get that on the 3DS then both 2D and 3D games will look good on it.

It would be nice if the 3DS had 3D capabilities AND a significant boost in hardware.  I'm really not in the mood for a Wii-like update where it's like the same thing but with a new feature.  But is there really a draw in N64 graphics popping out at you?  I doubt it.  It's going to have to be a step up.