Topic: Casual gamers are more picky than you

[ThePerm]

oh and on the gaming media, the gaming media during the n64 days consisted of print magazines, and a little site called IGN. It was nowhere near the saturation it was today. Everything else was little fan sites, and the mags net version of catch-up. Darwin theory kicked in and we have the sharks of game media we have today.

[noname2200]

Doesn't that depend on the gamer?  Some gamers love stories and others love gameplay.  Take Mass Effect 2 for example, getting great reviews but the core gameplay is a pretty bland shooter--it's the story and characters that drive the game.  It's to bad that the developers "dumb" downed ME2 by getting rid of much of the RPG elements like LOOT/Weapons/armor.

You're correct, but I think the assertion is more "if you want to get the majority of people to play the game, cut the fluff."* Most folks don't care for extensive story in their videogames, and while there's a niche of millions of gamers who do, that group pales in comparison to the tens/hundreds of millions who are turned off by the stuff.

*I don't think that's completely ian sane's point, but we'll go with that for now.

[Ian Sane]

I don't think that's completely ian sane's point, but we'll go with that for now.

I'm just noticing that when you crap on casual games the defenders are quick to point out the excess and the superficial elements of core games.  And I'm thinking "well that isn't what I like about those games."  It seems that for some, casual games are embraced as an alternative to overdone "epic" core games.  To me that's a shitty alternative so maybe we need something else.  The idea of the Wii being a back-to-basics approach from Nintendo and comparisons to the NES get brought up a lot.  And I look at that and think "why are we going all the way back to the NES?"  It seems extreme to me.  If there was some point where things went off the rails and we needed to take a step back and get back on track I figure it was much more recent than the NES.
 
If you're irritated by too many cutscenes and dumb pretenious storylines and exploitation you don't have to strip games down to Wii Sports to avoid that stuff.  To me that's like lobbing your legs off to deal with an in-grown toenail.

[KDR_11k]

Because the NES was Nintendo's best performing system.Much of gaming's growth is actually a result of population growth, the NES had the most universal appeal to people.

[SixthAngel]

I think this is the right thread to put this in.

Why do the people on the internet (hardcore) who talk about games pick up the corporate speak so quickly.  Words that belong in some company's corporate memo are paraded around internet forums.

The worst one is DLC or just as badwhen people use the word content when talking about something they want to get.  Downloadable content is such a corporate word.  We used to call them expansion packs or just expansions for small things.  For a single thing like a map people would use the word map, not "content."  I guess when you sell horse armor the word expansion makes it sound like your getting ripped off so the companies started saying "content."  A word that could mean, and does, mean whatever they want.  Internet gamers lapped that **** up and use DLC and content instead of the words traditionally used and actually explain things better.

The other big use I see on the internet now is the word IP and not just when talking about the business side.  Instead of saying "what is your favorite new series?" it becomes "what is your favorite new ip?"  This is another word that we have perfectly good words that take its place and also are more specific.  Just because Activision uses the word IP in its memos and press releases doesn't mean we should.

HD is now used all the time when talking about video games and even internet video and entered videogame use far before a lot of other places used it.  High rez has been used for ages when talking about video games.  I understand when talking about a system connected to a tv but why do you call the new pc game video hd?  For years and years your website had a high resolution setting, just like my computer monitor says.  Why jump onto this name bandwagon so early?

As companies began using hardcore, core, casual, nongamer etc. hardcore gamers started to use all of these words too despite the lack of real meaning.  Hell, Nintendo's marketing towards new people caused massive uproars (ignoring the hardcore) at a time when they were making and releasing more or their traditional games than they did on the gamecube.   It seems to me that for whatever reason the "hardcore" gamer is incredibly susceptible to advertising and corporate speak.

Say what you will about casual gamers but at least they aren't watching HD videos on their high res monitor about that hardcore new IP they are interested in while hoping there is some DLC released for it.

[broodwars]

Regarding DLC; IP; and HD, it's just easy to remember and refer to those as acronyms.  Besides, with the exception of IP those are all terms actually used in-game and in your console's settings so it makes sense to refer to them that way.  PC games are just refered to that way because more people play console games now than PC (with the exception of WoW, of course), so console terminology tends to bleed over into them.
 
As for the remaining words (hardcore, casual, etc.), as far as I know companies didn't pick up on using them until the gamers themselves started using them.

[Guitar Smasher]

I'm pretty sure I heard Sony and Microsoft using "hardcore/casual" as a reaction to Wii/DS before gamers did, although I wouldn't be able to find historical evidence of it.

Also, I think the acceptance of new vernacular is influenced by the media, who are the ones who continually repeat it.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

http://spoonyexperiment.com/2010/03/18/tse-riff-theater-gamecrazy-training-video/

Good to know there are retailers that got their "casual" definitions straight, long before Nintendo DS even showed up.

[UltimatePartyBear]

The worst one is DLC or just as badwhen people use the word content when talking about something they want to get.  Downloadable content is such a corporate word.  We used to call them expansion packs or just expansions for small things.  For a single thing like a map people would use the word map, not "content."  I guess when you sell horse armor the word expansion makes it sound like your getting ripped off so the companies started saying "content."  A word that could mean, and does, mean whatever they want.  Internet gamers lapped that **** up and use DLC and content instead of the words traditionally used and actually explain things better.

I find it hard to call something an expansion if there's no retail release, personally, so what traditional word would work for horse armor?  A charitable word, I mean.   We needed a word for the little stuff like that, and once it was established in the gaming vernacular, it simply displaced the more specific terms.  This is ordinary language development, not a sign of sheep-like tendencies.

The other big use I see on the internet now is the word IP and not just when talking about the business side.  Instead of saying "what is your favorite new series?" it becomes "what is your favorite new ip?"  This is another word that we have perfectly good words that take its place and also are more specific.  Just because Activision uses the word IP in its memos and press releases doesn't mean we should.

I could be cynical and recall my Slashdot reading days by saying that this is part of a much broader campaign by all big rights-holding companies to confuse the public about copyright, trademark, and patent laws, but instead I'm going to by cynical and point out that people on the Internets are lazy and would rather type "IP" than "franchise."  That's a savings of seven (7) letters, enough to type "DLC" twice with room to spare!  Incidentally, "franchise" always sounded very corporate to my ears, but I think that's been commonly used at least as far back as the early 90s.  It's definitely older than this stupid harcore/casual nonsense.  I think "franchise" took off because "series" didn't work anymore once Mario hopped in a kart and Mega Man got all 90s edgy.

[Ian Sane]

An important rule in communicating is to make sure you're understood by your audience.  So I'm going to use terms that everyone else uses in order for us to all know what the hell we're all talking about.

DLC to me is a very literal definition.  It means something I can download for the game.  It's nice to have a generic word to describe it all since it could mean levels, costumes, etc.  When I write "HD" I usualy mean it literally as "support for HDTVs" but I also use it as a catch-all to group the PS3 and Xbox 360 together ("HD consoles").

My brother gets on my ass for saying "shmup" because he thinks that's a stupid term.  He calls a game like Contra a "shooter" and a game like Gradius a "jet game".  My brothers are the only two people in the universe that use the term "jet game".  I call it a "shmup" because that's a term that everyone knows.  Unlike my brother I'm making an effort to communicate, instead of just avoiding words I don't like and confusing everyone.

Though I very much see gamers as an internet community so the lingo is going to spread throughout it.  The gaming media is largely part of that community.  I don't feel a big seperation between the IGN staff or the NWR staff or just us forumers.  Gaming isn't big enough to really have a seperation between the media and the fans.  I've always seen them as equals.

What I don't like is when PR speak is shot back out at me from fanboys.  Back in the N64 days it wasn't uncommon to hear a Nintendo fan use the "quality over quantity" retort.  That pissed me off because all that mantra was was a PR answer to dodge the question about the lack of games on the N64.  That's it.  It's no mantra, no philosophy, just a PR man being full of ****.  So using it as a defense made you sound like a corporate tool.  You see that on every game forum - fanboys towing the company line as if they're on the payroll.  That drives me nuts.  There's nothing wrong with being a fan, but that doesn't make you that company's shill.  You should be able to tell what's real and what's PR speak.  The frustration comes when you call a company out on something and the response from other gamers is the same response the company gives.

[KDR_11k]

I see Contra as a run and gun/action-platformer, shoot 'em ups involve no gravity.

[D_Average]

What I don't like is when PR speak is shot back out at me from fanboys.  Back in the N64 days it wasn't uncommon to hear a Nintendo fan use the "quality over quantity" retort.

Oh man, totally forgot about that!  I was one of them, used to say that all the time.  Then I grew up.

[broodwars]

What I don't like is when PR speak is shot back out at me from fanboys.  Back in the N64 days it wasn't uncommon to hear a Nintendo fan use the "quality over quantity" retort.

Oh man, totally forgot about that!  I was one of them, used to say that all the time.  Then I grew up.

You "grew up" and came to believe that large amounts of crap or mediocrity outweigh fewer amounts of quality titles?  Ohh....kay....

That does touch upon probably the thing that annoys me the most about Nintendo fans this generation: all throughout the N64 and GameCube we all came together under the banner that sales didn't matter so much so long as we got great games (and we did get great games).  Now that Nintendo's the top dog again, suddenly if you have a problem with titles like Wii Music; Carnival Games; etc. selling well, you "just don't get it."  Now suddenly sales are all that matters, no matter what sells.  I expect this attitude will flip-flop once again once Nintendo inevitably is no longer the top dog again (as is the way of business, with companies rising and falling over time).

[ThePerm]

because sales carry over from generation to generation, we needed NES sales so that we can get SNES and N64 again

[KDR_11k]

You "grew up" and came to believe that large amounts of crap or mediocrity outweigh fewer amounts of quality titles?  Ohh....kay....

He grew up to realize that quality and quantity aren't mutually exclusive.

[NWR_insanolord]

You "grew up" and came to believe that large amounts of crap or mediocrity outweigh fewer amounts of quality titles?  Ohh....kay....

He grew up to realize that quality and quantity aren't mutually exclusive.

Except, if you look back at the game lineups of that generation, you'll realize that in that particular instance they were.

[D_Average]

You "grew up" and came to believe that large amounts of crap or mediocrity outweigh fewer amounts of quality titles?  Ohh....kay....

He grew up to realize that quality and quantity aren't mutually exclusive.

Yes, that and the fact that my friends who bought the PSone actually did have great games to play that weren't on the N64.  I remember scoffing at them for playing games like Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy 7, etc, and always exaggerating the games flaws to validate my decision to stay emotionally and financially committed to Nintendo, no matter what. 

Then, I saw them playing Parappa the Rappa, and I said "Ah, f##K it, give me the controller!"  And I played that game from start to finish in one sitting and absolutely loved it.  That was the day my fanboism died.     

[Mop it up]

I never really got too caught up with that fanatical stuff. We had both a Nintendo 64 and PlayStation, so I didn't really have much reason to justify owning just one of them. Though I did have to explain why I preferred the games on the N64. I never felt the Nintendo 64 had a lack of games, but this is because I was just a kid and could afford few games, and also that the ones available are all games I like. It was only when I started to look at things more objectively that I acknowledged the N64 had a small library.

Before that I had an NES and Genesis. I haven't had as much experience with other systems as I would have liked, but I've had enough to know Nintendo is my favourite.

[SixthAngel]

At least we can all agree that Sega blew blasted away the snes with their high speed graphics. :

[Mop it up]

What a crock. SNES was tecnically superior. Deal with it.

[broodwars]

What a crock. SNES was tecnically superior. Deal with it.

Indeed, especially in the audio department (where it wasn't even close).  Better library by far as well.

[SixthAngel]

I was being sarcastic since people were getting into an n64 ps tagline fight.  I used the words high speed graphics which have no meaning and I thought the : made it pretty obvious.

[KDR_11k]

The Mega Drive could push more sprites simultaneously (hence Vectorman), the SNES had more colors onscreen and the famous better sound chip.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

They could've at least figured out how to use multiple sprites to create the impression of a good quality big sprite.

But no, Genesis Mortal Kombat looked like ass.