Author Topic: One-third of Wii owners are female?  (Read 19527 times)

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Offline Mop it up

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2009, 01:56:52 AM »
It's difficult for anybody to have a drive to get into gaming when there are now so many people with experience. I've been around since the beginning, and we were all newbies back then. I honestly can't say that I'd have any interest in gaming if it were introduced to me at this point in my life.

Offline SilverGrey

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2009, 02:09:02 AM »
I think that games need to lose the stigma of being a 'guy' thing before you will ever hope to see that ratio evening out to 50/50.
What can we do to help change things? It's pretty difficult to get people interested as they are going to need to be eased into it. I try to encourage my friends and family to try my new games, but... sometimes they just flat out refuse. And my sister doesn't have a lot of perseverance if a game is proving challenging.

Also, why won't you let me visit your Animal Crossing town? I'm really nice... and I bring presents! ;D

Well first off my town is a royal mess cause I haven't been there for a few months so probably all my citizens moved away and it's covered in weeds, but perhaps someday I will allow visitors.  I'm trying to think of ways to get people interested in games who are new, which has led to me think about how I get interested in the first place.  But that has a lot to do with a Black Friday sale offering me a N64 for $15 back when I was a freshmen in college.  I was never allowed video games at home and I had always wanted to play OOT.  I remember seeing people playing it when it was new and I was just absolutely fascinated.  So for me, it was the hook, I wanted to see how you played that game.  Not gonna lie, the 2 things I wanted to do most were ride Epona around Hyrule Field, and catch a fairy in a bottle.  Anyhow, I think the Wii has been the hook for more people to look at video games as something new and different and not so scary.  I also think the glut of minigame compilations has its merits because people have fun playing together and waving their arms around and looking like fools and then say 'hey what else can we play like this?'  So I already think the industry is changing its stereotype.  But at the same time, why play minigames when you can play a super fun full-length game?  So there's still lots of ground to go if the industry will ever be considered equally accessible, and even then you'll have people who just have lots more skills than new players.  So I have 2 thoughts:
1. Twice I have encountered lost looking moms who think the game rating is telling you how hard the game is, rather than the rating of content.  I spent 15 minutes explaining to one mom why not every E game would be perfect for her 4 year old.  I don't even work at that store, I was looking for something myself and I guess I looked nicer than the store clerk?  Anyhow, not sure how it would be managed but I think a difficulty rating system could have its potential to make games a little less intimidating on the purchasing end.

2. I wish the back of game cases were more descriptive (in some cases) in telling you what the game is actually about, and what you as the player are doing in the game.  I consider myself an informed game consumer because I read reviews and forums like this and know before I go off to get something whether or not it's going to be a game I would be likely to enjoy.  It's very rare for me to just wander over to the Wii section and see what looks good because I find reading the back of the case to be of very little use in telling me what I want to know.  The sheer amount of STUFF available for the Wii (and video games in general) can be an intimidating experience even if you know what you're looking for, let alone if you don't.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2009, 02:30:37 AM »
Anyhow, not sure how it would be managed but I think a difficulty rating system could have its potential to make games a little less intimidating on the purchasing end.
That is an interesting idea, though I'm also not sure how it would work. I hate it when a game classifies difficulty as "casual" and "hardcore" because I don't think there is an inherent amount of challenge to either one. So I wouldn't want to see games plastered with "For Casuals" and "For Hardcore!", and that also doesn't cover games which have a wide appeal like Mario Kart Wii. People also have varying degrees of skill so what is easy for one person may be hard for another. Maybe they could advertise if a game has a difficulty selector? Features like the Super Guide in NSMBWii should also be on the box somewhere.

I wish the back of game cases were more descriptive (in some cases) in telling you what the game is actually about, and what you as the player are doing in the game.
I often feel the same. Some games are presented in the same way as books or movies and that's just not going to work. I don't want to know about the story, I want to know how I'm going to control and affect that story. Tell me the role I'm going to play or how I'm going to interact with the environment. Give me something. Even if games had nothing but a simple mention of the genre would be helpful.

Cluttered shelves are just making things worse. I've said it plenty of times before but it bears repeating: the market is flooded with too many games and that's just hurting it.

Not gonna lie, the 2 things I wanted to do most were ride Epona around Hyrule Field, and catch a fairy in a bottle.
I don't think there is anything wrong with being excited about something that's seemingly insignificant to others. As an example, I bought all of the games which have Birdo as a playable character without even reading up about them (I regretted this with just one: Mario Strikers Charged). I also didn't buy Mario and Sonic at the Winter Olympics because it doesn't have Birdo in it.

Well first off my town is a royal mess cause I haven't been there for a few months so probably all my citizens moved away and it's covered in weeds, but perhaps someday I will allow visitors.
You know, Mop_it_up isn't the kind of username I just created, it's the kind that I earned. If you would ever like some help cleaning up your town, I'm the one to call upon.

Offline Stratos

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2009, 02:58:17 AM »
There is no 1 type of game that every girl will like. Just as there is typical "boys" games that boys don't like.
Good point. And I think it raises the question, why does every game need to target one sex or the other? Why must there be a divide between the two?

Because that's how marketers work in all fields. Even in politics half of all I ever hear is how so-and-so needs to appeal more to blacks or whats-their-face is losing the youth vote. People try to break people down into 'manageable' group types but the problem is you can never satisfy everyone. People have the Lord of the Rings or Twilight movies because it broke away from what was in the books, and other love the movies who also love the books. No one group can be truly happy because every 'people-type' we come up with is not a universal unifying factor. Look on the boards: not everyone here likes the most recent Mario or Zelda game, and we are supposedly Nintendo fans. Not everyone here even likes the Wii. Marketers try and generalize and catch as many people as they can in their selling cross hairs.

PS-count me in on the AC cleanup efforts if you'd like. Half of my fun in the game is helping out in other people's towns.
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Offline SilverGrey

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2009, 01:28:57 PM »
]That is an interesting idea, though I'm also not sure how it would work. I hate it when a game classifies difficulty as "casual" and "hardcore" because I don't think there is an inherent amount of challenge to either one. So I wouldn't want to see games plastered with "For Casuals" and "For Hardcore!", and that also doesn't cover games which have a wide appeal like Mario Kart Wii. People also have varying degrees of skill so what is easy for one person may be hard for another. Maybe they could advertise if a game has a difficulty selector? Features like the Super Guide in NSMBWii should also be on the box somewhere.

Here's what inspired this comment from me.  I work in a library currently.  I work with a lot of children's books.   The books that help kids as they're learning to read usually have levels or stepping stones or whatever that book publisher chooses to call them.  Then on the back of the book it tells you what level the book is, and what is expected at that level.  Things listed are paragraphs, long sentences, 2 syllable words, so on and so forth.  If on the back of a game case they could list some of the aspects of gameplay in the same manner they might make a step towards not only giving a hint as to the difficulty of the title, but also help with the other comment we were making about wanting to know what the game is about and what you the player will be doing.  Maybe not go so far as to actually give a level number like the stepping stones books, so you don't run into the 'well how casual does casual mean?' or 'how difficult is hardcore really?' which would be pretty impossible to predict because there's so much variance in skill level.

Offline EasyCure

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2009, 10:09:43 PM »
My question is, who will be the first to make an inappropriate joke?
[/quote]

*ahem*

lol that would be pretty good for me but I think it is too long.

So when they say size matters, it doesn't necessarily mean bigger is better? GOOD NEWS STRATOS!
*
==================

*puts on serious suit*

]That is an interesting idea, though I'm also not sure how it would work. I hate it when a game classifies difficulty as "casual" and "hardcore" because I don't think there is an inherent amount of challenge to either one. So I wouldn't want to see games plastered with "For Casuals" and "For Hardcore!", and that also doesn't cover games which have a wide appeal like Mario Kart Wii. People also have varying degrees of skill so what is easy for one person may be hard for another. Maybe they could advertise if a game has a difficulty selector? Features like the Super Guide in NSMBWii should also be on the box somewhere.

Here's what inspired this comment from me.  I work in a library currently.  I work with a lot of children's books.   The books that help kids as they're learning to read usually have levels or stepping stones or whatever that book publisher chooses to call them.  Then on the back of the book it tells you what level the book is, and what is expected at that level.  Things listed are paragraphs, long sentences, 2 syllable words, so on and so forth.  If on the back of a game case they could list some of the aspects of gameplay in the same manner they might make a step towards not only giving a hint as to the difficulty of the title, but also help with the other comment we were making about wanting to know what the game is about and what you the player will be doing.  Maybe not go so far as to actually give a level number like the stepping stones books, so you don't run into the 'well how casual does casual mean?' or 'how difficult is hardcore really?' which would be pretty impossible to predict because there's so much variance in skill level.

See, now SilverGrey here as a great idea that would help make ALL types of gaming appealing to mainstream audience that ISN'T playing games already (the mainstream audience that is, for those that don't know, are the Halo and Madden players). What would hinder it is doing it in the way Mop_it_up mentioned, which was nothing like I imagined it as described by SilverGrey..

Throwing terms like "hardcore" and "casual" on the box are a step in the wrong direction. You'll only be hurting the chances of a new-comer ever purchasing a game that says "hardcore" on the box. That would be divisive, when it should be informative.

*ps better let than never
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2009, 11:07:21 PM »
Throwing terms like "hardcore" and "casual" on the box are a step in the wrong direction. You'll only be hurting the chances of a new-comer ever purchasing a game that says "hardcore" on the box. That would be divisive, when it should be informative.
Exactly my point.
What I think would be the most difficult thing about creating some sort of system to indicate the skill required for a game is that it can't seem patronizing or it's just going to turn people away. That's one reason why the term "non-game" has always bothered me, because of the negative implications that it's less than a game and of inherent low quality.

And I think it raises the question, why does every game need to target one sex or the other? Why must there be a divide between the two?
Because that's how marketers work in all fields.
Just because that's how it has always been doesn't mean it isn't stupid. Why limit your product's sales by specifically targeting one group?

Offline that Baby guy

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2009, 01:08:05 AM »
The stepping stone idea isn't a bad one, but that's the interesting thing about games:  Stepping stones are "supposed" to be implemented in so many titles already.

While not in every game, there's been differing difficulties, in an attempt to make the game both more approachable and longer lasting.  Personally, I'm a proponent of having all difficulties unlocked from the initial outing, for one matter.  Silly things like unlocking an easier mode after dying several times, that's just a bad decision.

Now, then, the reason I suggest using difficulties, rather than simplified games makes a bit of sense, when you think of it.  SilverGrey mentions the library, which solidifies this:  When someone picks up a book they're learning with, they plan to take it back about as soon as their done with it.  The childrens' books parents and kids buy are bought for reasons not based on difficulty, but more on cuteness, intrinsic value of the plot, familiarity of the characters, or any other number of reasons.  Yes, the books are great for beginning readers, but they're books that will be read again, even though there's no educational value.  What I'm shooting to say is that developers need to refocus on creating experiences that gamers of all types come back to play again.

So really, I'm not sure if an icon or metric of game difficulty is the right way to go.  There's a stigma, at least in my perception, that books with a similar system are often just to learn with, and of no other value.  I don't think that's the direction you want to take with expensive titles, though it could work with low-budget titles, still.

With that said, I'll say what I believe to be the case for the gaming industry, in particular for new gamers:  Shorter games, focused on gameplay over story, with lower budgets and lower prices.  I'm not saying that longer titles are bad, but I am saying that more newer gamers, and even many growing older, that I'd imagine the ability to sit down and finish a game in a night or two, like one would a movie, wouldn't be a bad thing, especially if the gameplay never became exhausting and the game were cheap.  As it stands now, I grow tired of lengthy games, even ones I enjoy a lot, halfway through.  They're just too long.  With a movie, it's a three-hour investment.  With television, thirty minutes to an hour.  Games can be longer, since they're interactive, but I'd be hesitant to say that a developer should look for a campaign over 10 hours.

In fact, there's a second type of casual gamer out there that's often overlooked, and that's the thirty-year old FPS player.  They've embraced gaming just as much as anyone, but in a way that's seemingly traditional, and thus are grouped into the "hardcore" crowd without second thought.  But truthfully, the formula Activision uses in it's Call of Duty line could easily be reproduced in other sectors:  A loose but engaging story that unfolds as you play, relatively easy and uniform controls that can be picked up in a few minutes by most, a short campaign so that a few sessions will allow the gamer to absorb the full experience, and a multiplayer opportunity that is inviting to friends with similar tastes.

Yeah, I know, easier said than done, but truthfully?  Take a look at New Super Mario Bros. Wii, and you'll find a lot in common.  The problem is, truthfully, most "casual" or entry-level titles are a generation or two back on this process, and it shows.  The formula for success is out there, and I think some developers are beginning to realize it.

Offline SixthAngel

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2009, 02:11:10 AM »
This doesn't surprise me at all.  The Wii is full of games my girlfriend and other girls I know like to play.  Wii Sports and Resort, Mario Kart, Wii Fit, Wario Ware, NSMB, a ton of dancing games that I don't think they brought over to the US, and light gun games (Overkill) are all games girls I know play even though the games they like are not all the same.  I think Nintendo has always had a better aim at girls, N64 Mario Kart was a huge hit with a lot of ladies back in college.

I think friend codes is one of the best things Nintendo implemented to help bring new gamers, especially girls, deeper into the games.  I know everyone here hates them with a passion but calm down.  Friend codes can be a hassle for people but it also gives you complete control over everything because locking people out is the default.  If a girl tries a game of Mario kart online no big deal, even if it is her first time.  If she tries Halo or pretty much any Xbox game she is probably going to walk away and never look back.  Voice chat on is the default and why would a new person want to turn it off?  It sounds kind of cool.  A new player is mocked and ridiculed and told to quit the entire first time they play.  If a girl thinks it might be fun to be social in the socially oriented game its time to duck for cover.  I had to turn off all chat on the original Xbox anytime a person who sounded like a female spoke because the game quickly turned into most everyone making rude comments, internet flirting and people generally being an ass.  Now with the dashboard I'm sure women get constant annoying friend requiests, messages, and other chat requests.  The online systems on other consoles chase new players, especially girls, away when they want to get deeper into the games.  Even the pay for online chases away new players.  The "gamerscore" probably does this even more since people are judged and intimidated before they even start the game.  SilverGrey talks about how it is a very intimidating thing to get into, especially for girls, and I think that is exactly what Nintendo tried to do with the codes.

Offline Caterkiller

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2009, 07:00:25 PM »
Now thats an interesting take on it SixthAngel, I never really thought of it that way.

I still don't like the idea of constantly having to deal with more and more friend codes, but by the next Nintendo  when their online is more fleshed out how would Nintendo remedy these things to be less intimidating?
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2009, 08:27:13 PM »

Girlz Play Too!
Just some random guy on the internet who has a different opinion of games than you.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2009, 08:28:30 PM »
By releasing so many good online games with FRIED CODS that it would hopeless to wish they didn't exist.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2009, 08:30:55 PM »

Girlz Play Too!

What is that, some sort of Ubisoft special bundle?

Offline SixthAngel

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2009, 03:26:26 AM »
Now thats an interesting take on it SixthAngel, I never really thought of it that way.

I still don't like the idea of constantly having to deal with more and more friend codes, but by the next Nintendo  when their online is more fleshed out how would Nintendo remedy these things to be less intimidating?

First we have to think about whether Nintendo thinks it is a big problem.  Afterall, if a game is good enough to play online people who want to will go over the little hurdles.  They are very small, although annoying.  Will a big correction for people who will probably play the games anyway be a bigger benefit than the new gamers it stops from playing?  I'm not sure.
Years from now I think they will have a much improved the online system but I expect a lot of things to still be locked by default.  Something like a system wide friend code would work well to give the heavy players less hassle and still give the new people about the same amount of the control.

This isn't the only time Nintendo has seen things that other people complain about as something good.  When Wii first came out (and still) people bitched about how they would be tired and wanted to sit down.  Nintendo not only thought that was a very minor problem but saw it as an advantage and made Wii Fit based on the fact that their games can make you tired.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2009, 03:31:34 AM by SixthAngel »

Offline mac<censored>

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2009, 08:23:23 AM »
....
Girlz Play Too!

What is that, some sort of Ubisoft special bundle?

Perhaps a class project from a course on "condescension in marketing"?

Offline Peachylala

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2009, 11:43:59 AM »
You will always get the best of both worlds. [/lame hannah joke]
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2009, 12:26:14 PM »
You will always get the best of both worlds. [/lame hannah joke]

I don't get it...
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Offline Peachylala

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2009, 01:48:57 PM »
That is a good thing. That annoying opening theme song from the TV show can get drilled into your head.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2009, 05:45:54 PM »
Shorter games, focused on gameplay over story, with lower budgets and lower prices.  I'm not saying that longer titles are bad, but I am saying that more newer gamers, and even many growing older, that I'd imagine the ability to sit down and finish a game in a night or two, like one would a movie, wouldn't be a bad thing, especially if the gameplay never became exhausting and the game were cheap.
The problem with that idea would be making such a shift. Right now, budget games are generally viewed as being low-quality/shovelware/garbage/"non-game" games. Changing people's minds on that one would not be easy.

If a girl tries a game of Mario kart online no big deal, even if it is her first time.  If she tries Halo or pretty much any Xbox game she is probably going to walk away and never look back.  Voice chat on is the default and why would a new person want to turn it off?  It sounds kind of cool.  A new player is mocked and ridiculed and told to quit the entire first time they play.  If a girl thinks it might be fun to be social in the socially oriented game its time to duck for cover.
This guy gets it. I'm actually glad that most online Wii games don't have voice chat.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2009, 05:53:35 PM »
I think it would be nice if they all had voice chat, but had it defaulted as off.
then you have the option to enable VC with one click for everyone or individually like you were selecting e-mail to delete.

option are a good thing and defaulting certain options will give us all what we want.

Offline SilverGrey

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2009, 07:51:54 PM »
If a girl tries a game of Mario kart online no big deal, even if it is her first time.  If she tries Halo or pretty much any Xbox game she is probably going to walk away and never look back.  Voice chat on is the default and why would a new person want to turn it off?  It sounds kind of cool.  A new player is mocked and ridiculed and told to quit the entire first time they play.  If a girl thinks it might be fun to be social in the socially oriented game its time to duck for cover.
This guy gets it. I'm actually glad that most online Wii games don't have voice chat.

Agreed.  Most of my guy friends don't even like voice chat, and I don't want punky 12 year olds chirping in my ear.  Games for me are meant to be relaxing.

Offline EasyCure

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2009, 08:18:10 PM »
what if they whisper sweet nothings instead? :P
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Offline SilverGrey

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2009, 08:21:16 PM »
what if they whisper sweet nothings instead? :P:

You want punky 12 year olds to whisper sweet nothings?  What is a sweet nothing to a 12 year old anyways?

Offline EasyCure

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #48 on: December 01, 2009, 08:27:49 PM »
me? no thanks.

honestly i don't even wanna know what a sweet nothing from a 12yo is.. kids these days know some worse things than i do!
February 07, 2003, 02:35:52 PM
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Offline SilverGrey

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Re: One-third of Wii owners are female?
« Reply #49 on: December 01, 2009, 08:36:03 PM »
Kids these days, eh?