Topic: Oh, GameStop. You do make me laugh.

[Morari]

Responsible sequelization allows a series to persist over decades, overexploitation often leaves the series dead after one console generation.

How true. I think that, if nothing else, this is one thing that Nintendo does do correctly. One sequel per generation not only makes that sequel so much more special, but also allows developers the time to focus on more varied offerings.

[KDR_11k]

Well, it's not strictly one, Zelda tends to get two and such.

[Stratos]

Square likes to make ridiculous DLC. Didn't someone prove that their WiiWare game DLC is actually on the original game already and they are just charging you for the unlock code?I was rather frustrated to find out that half of My Life As A King DLC is actually unlocked in-game after you beat it once or twice.

[that Baby guy]

Actually, that isn't true, or at least isn't entirely true, Stratos...

For example, the FFIV sequel DLC contained a lot of data to be used later, but much of it was unused, revised, or just downright rewritten in the other chapters, and that's only referring to character data, let alone the maps and things.

As far as MLAaDL DLC, which isn't the same as MLAaK :p, the DLC for everything in-game is likely separate from the game, but was almost definitely built before the game's release.  There are items, though, with no picture, model, or graphics, that were to make the game easier, essentially just giving you more in-game money.  Those could easily have been included, though likely were not.

[Stratos]

I was more just referring to MLaaK DLC and not the MLaaDL DLC or any other of their games.

[that Baby guy]

Oh, you mean the actual stuff you could unlock via DLC could alternatively be unlocked by completing parts of the game?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Don't tell me Chime's Bikini is a simple unlock.

[Stratos]

No, not the outfits, but some of the buildings are unlockable.

[that Baby guy]

Ah, that is tricky, it seems.  At least with the other online SE games, the unlockable stuff and the DLC are distinctly different.  I don't have a problem with things being unlockable via DLC and unlockable via clearing the game at the same time, though, as long as it's made clear the content is in the game.  I'd imagine, in this case, it wasn't, though.

[Ian Sane]

I like DLC in the way that it effectively provides a method for console games to have expansion packs.  Done right, expansion packs are a cool way to get a little extra playtime out of an old game.  I don't mind it for stuff like music games either where making a custom playlist and only paying for the songs you want makes sense (though that sure isn't the way Guitar Hero is ACTUALLY doing it, but I digress).

What sucks is DLC where they obviously are not giving you the full game.  If a game has DLC available for purchase on DAY ONE then it's a fucking scam.  There is no reason not to put that content in the game aside from greed.  There is a big difference from me playing a brand new game and having "premium content" locked away that I have to pay extra for and having a new set of levels released a good year after the game came out available for purchase.

Get rid of the scam DLC and we've got a pretty cool feature that previously only PC gamers had access to.  But the scam **** has got to go and for that to happen we have to not buy it.

[KDR_11k]

Also console companies tend to charge for stuff that PC gamers tend to get for free. Valve actually complained that MS wouldn't let them release their DLC for free (they keep old games fresh with tons of new content while keeping the price up and supposedly their sales are staying high for a long time along with having massive customer loyalty). There are some recent examples of fairly massive add-ons for PC games that were free. UT3 got a ton of maps, vehicles, etc, TF2 got tons of class upgrades, Left 4 Dead numerous extra campaigns, DoW2 got Last Stand, etc.

[Stratos]

I like DLC in the way that it effectively provides a method for console games to have expansion packs.  Done right, expansion packs are a cool way to get a little extra playtime out of an old game.  I don't mind it for stuff like music games either where making a custom playlist and only paying for the songs you want makes sense (though that sure isn't the way Guitar Hero is ACTUALLY doing it, but I digress).

What sucks is DLC where they obviously are not giving you the full game.  If a game has DLC available for purchase on DAY ONE then it's a fucking scam.  There is no reason not to put that content in the game aside from greed.  There is a big difference from me playing a brand new game and having "premium content" locked away that I have to pay extra for and having a new set of levels released a good year after the game came out available for purchase.

Get rid of the scam DLC and we've got a pretty cool feature that previously only PC gamers had access to.  But the scam **** has got to go and for that to happen we have to not buy it.

Well, I learned my lesson with MLaaK. I'm not going to buy DLC like that again.

Also console companies tend to charge for stuff that PC gamers tend to get for free. Valve actually complained that MS wouldn't let them release their DLC for free (they keep old games fresh with tons of new content while keeping the price up and supposedly their sales are staying high for a long time along with having massive customer loyalty). There are some recent examples of fairly massive add-ons for PC games that were free. UT3 got a ton of maps, vehicles, etc, TF2 got tons of class upgrades, Left 4 Dead numerous extra campaigns, DoW2 got Last Stand, etc.

Didn't Burnout Paradise get a huge free content update that included new vehicles and support to drive motorcycles and other crazy stuff? That was on the PSN for free I heard.

[BlackNMild2k1]

But the scam **** has got to go and for that to happen we have to not buy it.

Waaaaay ahead of you.

[King of Twitch]

Everyone around here whines and complains that they try to push pre-orders and guides. Well boo hoo, how is that worse than the fact they put THREE price stickers on every used game, one of which goes DIRECTLY onto the boxart? My estimated wrapping time just went from 2 minutes to about 30.

 

[Morari]

Actually Zap, I'm more concerned that they tend to put stickers directly onto the box of so-called new games. Of course, these "new" games are kept out of the box and placed in a filing drawer isntead, where they get scratched up.

[KDR_11k]

Unless you get the last copy in the store they usually grab a wrapped one from the storage.

[nickmitch]

Yeah, I've been getting a lot of my games still shrink wrapped from there lately.

[Stratos]

My copy of Conduit special edition was shrink wrapped and it was the last one in the store, plus I just walked in and asked for it. Did that mean they hadn't put up a display copy yet? Or maybe the last display copy was a reserved copy and they were going to give that to the pre-ordering customer. Boy, I would be pretty mad if that was what happened to mine. If I pre-order it better be an unopened game.

[Mop it up]

And they tell you before you buy it if it's the last one and isn't shrink wrapped, so it isn't like they force you into it. That's been my experience anyway.

[Stratos]

And they tell you before you buy it if it's the last one and isn't shrink wrapped, so it isn't like they force you into it. That's been my experience anyway.

They have never told or asked me if it was. Every time they just go about like business as usual putting the disc in the box and then are all confused/shocked/scornful/humored when I say I don't want an open (I sometimes use the word used) game. I then just walk over to Fred Meyer or Wal-Mart and get a legit new copy.

[Mop it up]

I guess it is another one of those things that depends on location.

[broodwars]

And they tell you before you buy it if it's the last one and isn't shrink wrapped, so it isn't like they force you into it. That's been my experience anyway.

They have never told or asked me if it was. Every time they just go about like business as usual putting the disc in the box and then are all confused/shocked/scornful/humored when I say I don't want an open (I sometimes use the word used) game.

Yeah, same experience here.  I've never had a Gamestop employee tell me that this was the last copy and that I'd "have" to settle for a disc from the drawer.  I've always had to press the issue.

[Morari]

And they tell you before you buy it if it's the last one and isn't shrink wrapped, so it isn't like they force you into it. That's been my experience anyway.

They have never told or asked me if it was. Every time they just go about like business as usual putting the disc in the box and then are all confused/shocked/scornful/humored when I say I don't want an open (I sometimes use the word used) game.

Yeah, same experience here.  I've never had a Gamestop employee tell me that this was the last copy and that I'd "have" to settle for a disc from the drawer.  I've always had to press the issue.

Exactly. It'd be different if they sold those "new" games at used prices, as that's exactly what they are. If it's a game I want immediately, I drive to Wal-Mart. Otherwise, I order online cheaper and avoid paying taxes on top of it.

[noname2200]

Here's something I just thought of--I wonder if GameStop is going to sell add-on packs for retail games (e.g. the extra missions for Fallout 3) or just stand-alone games (e.g. Shadow Complex).

Extra content for retail goes against one of GameStop's core principles--used games.  Someone who purchases additional content is less likely to sell the retail game back to GameStop when they're done with it.  Say goodbye to huge margins!

Actually, it'd be great for Gamestop. The few DLC-packed discs that I've gotten my mitts on (the expansions for Fallout 3 and for Oblivion) only required you to install the DLC once. There was zero DRM on the DLC, just the main game. That means I could have, in theory, installed the main game, bought and installed the DLC, and then sold the DLC disc while keeping the DLC forever.

Youcan't say DLC is a scam, all you can say is that SOME companies doscams (like EA Sports charging money for uniforms in the Madden games).DLC in general is a good idea since it allows for companies to continueexpanding a game long after it comes out by doing stuff like adding newmultiplayer maps and weapons. I don't want console games to put up withthe crap that PC games do (like needing patches the same day the gamereleases because the developers did a shitty job of testing the gamewhile developing it). You seem to think that most DLC is bad, it's theother way around. The vast majority are good, it's only a few that arebad (the first one that I remember being on consoles was when BethesdaSoftworks had the balls to charge $2 for horse armor).

While I agree in theory, I'm fairly certain thing aren't going to work out this way in practice. We're already seeing games with sizeable DLC being available for sale on Day One. In other words, the publisher is deliberately holding back the content, solely to extract more money from you. Dragon Age is the most egregious example, but it's hardly the only one. There are even companies that put the DLC in the disc itself, but require you to pay for the unlock code. Sure, companies COULD follow the path you're talking about, but they're using more and more to screw us over, content-wise, and I doubt that's going to change anytime soon.

Squarelikes to make ridiculous DLC. Didn't someone prove that their WiiWaregame DLC is actually on the original game already and they are justcharging you for the unlock code?I was rather frustrated to find outthat half of My Life As A King DLC is actually unlocked in-game afteryou beat it once or twice.

You are correct sir: apart from the Infinity Spire, all of MLaaK's DLC was already in the initial download. You just paid to unlock it.

[Kairon]

Of course, there's an unspoken assumption here that everything a company has developed by launch date, they should give you on the disc. It sounds nice, but is there any real basis to this belief? Perhaps its the prerogative of the manufacturer to decide just what the final retail product is, even if it's less than what they could do.