Topic: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean

[KDR_11k]

But considering it's on an HD console you probably won't need more than one controller anyway, all the games that are actually worth playing only support online MP.

[Guitar Smasher]

But considering it's on an HD console you probably won't need more than one controller anyway, all the games that are actually worth playing only support online MP.

If that's true, then Sony really misunderstood what made the Wii so popular.

[broodwars]

But considering it's on an HD console you probably won't need more than one controller anyway, all the games that are actually worth playing only support online MP.

However, Sony made a major design mistake with the Slim in removing 2 of the USB ports, so now there are only 2.  That means on my new PS3, I only have 2 ports and if I have a Move, the camera takes up one slot all the time.  That means I have one slot to charge 2 controllers (Move and Nav, or Move and Move depending on the game), and only one slot to charge 4 controllers if I were to play multiplayer.  That's just bad design.

[Kytim89]

But considering it's on an HD console you probably won't need more than one controller anyway, all the games that are actually worth playing only support online MP.

However, Sony made a major design mistake with the Slim in removing 2 of the USB ports, so now there are only 2.  That means on my new PS3, I only have 2 ports and if I have a Move, the camera takes up one slot all the time.  That means I have one slot to charge 2 controllers (Move and Nav, or Move and Move depending on the game), and only one slot to charge 4 controllers if I were to play multiplayer.  That's just bad design.

Do you remember when I made my list of things that the Wii 2 should have? I mentioned about how the Wii 2 should have five USB ports and this is why I mentioned having those many ports would be a good idea.

[Adrock]

However, Sony made a major design mistake with the Slim in removing 2 of the USB ports, so now there are only 2.  That means on my new PS3, I only have 2 ports and if I have a Move, the camera takes up one slot all the time.  That means I have one slot to charge 2 controllers (Move and Nav, or Move and Move depending on the game), and only one slot to charge 4 controllers if I were to play multiplayer.  That's just bad design.

Agreed. I only have 2 DS3s so I usually only use 1 USB port at a time anyway. If I bought Move, I'd almost certainly buy the Move charger which I suppose was Sony's intention all along. I doubt removing 2 USB ports in the Slim was really a difference maker. Seems like poor planning considering they knew Move was on the way. It's kind of one big F-U to their fans. "Support Move... we even made it more annoying for you." Fail.

[TJ Spyke]

It was penny-pinching, plain and simple. Like why they removed PS2 BC, which saved them very little.

[BlackNMild2k1]

very little x20million is actually quite alot, especially when you are already hopelessly in the red.

[TJ Spyke]

It only saved them like $2 per system. I know why they did (they were losing over $100 on every PS3), but it they at least could have did something like the Xbox 360 where you could download patches for some PS2 games to make them BC.

[Chozo Ghost]

But considering it's on an HD console you probably won't need more than one controller anyway, all the games that are actually worth playing only support online MP.

However, Sony made a major design mistake with the Slim in removing 2 of the USB ports, so now there are only 2.  That means on my new PS3, I only have 2 ports and if I have a Move, the camera takes up one slot all the time.  That means I have one slot to charge 2 controllers (Move and Nav, or Move and Move depending on the game), and only one slot to charge 4 controllers if I were to play multiplayer.  That's just bad design.

I agree. But you can solve the problem yourself fairly easily by getting a USB hub. I'm not sure, but I think pretty much any computer USB hub will work on the PS3, but you might want to do some research on that. With a Hub you can turn one USB slot into like 4 or 5 or whatever. The only potential issue here is for devices that draw a lot of power from USB, but something like a controller shouldn't be an issue at all.

[NWR_insanolord]

Except they are drawing a lot of power, because they're using the USB port to charge. You could get a powered hub, which in addition to costing money takes up a power outlet, but the point is you shouldn't have to.

[Chozo Ghost]

I honestly didn't think of that because I always use the controllers through the wire whenever I'm playing on my friend's PS3. He's got 9ft USB cables, so its not really an issue. But yeah, you can get powered hubs, and actually I think they have USB charger things now that plug into regular wall outlets and that provides powered USB ports for charging cell phones and things like that.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Kinect vs Move: Round 1
The Holiday Season has come and gone
http://www.industrygamers.com/news/microsofts-xbox-360-kinect-bundles-outsold-move-bundles-by-51/

If you want to look at the recent holiday season as "Round 1" of the motion controls battle between Microsoft and Sony, it would appear that Microsoft's Kinect is winning handily (bad pun, considering that it's "hands free" gaming). Not only has Kinect quickly shipped 8 million units, but for the month of December, Xbox 360 Kinect bundles outsold PS3 Move bundles considerably. The software for the motion camera is faring far better too, according to Wedbush analyst Michael Pachter.

"About one fifth of PS3 sales included bundles with Sony’s Move controller, suggesting a modest third month (we have chosen not to subscribe to peripheral data). About half of Xbox 360 sales included bundles with Microsoft’s Kinect peripheral, as Xbox 360 Kinect console bundles outsold PS3 Move console bundles by 5:1," Pachter said.

"Microsoft announced that it has shipped 8 million Kinect units since launch (in November), which was raised from its earlier goal of 5 million. More significantly, in our view, the top two selling Kinect software titles outsold the top two Move titles by over 13:1."

Looks like this round went overwhelmingly to Kinect, but can Sony get some wind under Move's wings and raise this add-on to be something more than Wii for PS3 owners minus all the Nintendo software that Wii popular in the first place? What can Sony do at this point moving forward to see even similar success to Kinect? What have they been doing wrong?

[Ian Sane]

I don't think Sony really did anything wrong.  It's just that Kinect's success was unexpected.  Everyone figured Kinect was going to be an malfunctioning piece of crap.  Sony figured the same thing so they went with something more conservative that is more or less a Wii knock-off.  I don't blame them for that.  The Wii concept is proven and established.

MS was risking the possibility that their new controller-less idea was going to bomb and then where would they be?  It's less like Sony screwed up but more that Microsoft's gamble paid off.  You could have said the same thing about the Wii.  Did Sony and MS necessarily do something wrong in not having motion control when their consoles launched?  Not really.  They didn't do everything perfect but their controller approach was a conservative and safe one.  Nintendo did something really out there and it paid off.  But if they hadn't the Wii would have bombed huge and Nintendo might very well be out of business right now.  You can look back in hindsight and say that Sony or MS should have gone the same route but how do you anticipate something so out of left field and how do you know that this huge risk will pay off?  You can't, so we can't hold either company responsible.

Sony played it safe and it just didn't really work out.  But it would have taken clairvoyance to have known otherwise.  Pretty much anyone who knows anything about games figured Kinect was a certain bomb.

And is Sony fucked?  Did they lose a bunch of money with Move?  Move can be profitable and successful without having higher sales than Kinect.  All Sony should really care about is if the PS3 is selling well and they're making a profit from it.  From a business perspective it isn't like "number one or bust".  You can still be profitable in last place.  I don't know if Sony is doing that but we know it can happen.

What Sony needs to do now is just make good games for Move.  It isn't like they can change it now.  They went with the Wii rip-off and that's what they've got and that's what they have to support.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Move has been selling fine, it is far from a bomb. It offers a different experience then Kinect, nothing wrong with that.

[Chozo Ghost]

Sony figured the same thing so they went with something more conservative that is more or less a Wii knock-off.  I don't blame them for that.  The Wii concept is proven and established.

That niche was already filled. At least with Kinect, MS sorta made the niche big enough so they could fit in it too. Sony brought absolutely nothing new or different to the table, and why would they need to be clairvoyant to see that? Even if Kinect were completely disregarded and not in the equation at all its still obvious that Move wasn't offering anything new or original. You said yourself the Wii concept is "proven and established", so there was no reason for Sony to reinvent the wheel. Microsoft didn't reinvent the wheel, instead they invented a helicopter. Why can't Sony do something original for once in their miserable lives?

I just took advantage of the $50 promotional credit on amazon and finally got my own PS3, but I have zero interest in Move. The point of having a PS3 is to take advantage of the traditional 3rd party games that the Wii is missing out on. I already have a Wii for everything else. It would just be a waste for me to buy Move when I already have that with the Wii. Like you said, it was already "proven and established" with the Wii, so its like someone making a great discovery in science and then several years later someone else makes the same discovery. What the hell is the point? Its been done before.

[Ian Sane]

That niche was already filled. At least with Kinect, MS sorta made the niche big enough so they could fit in it too. Sony brought absolutely nothing new or different to the table, and why would they need to be clairvoyant to see that? Even if Kinect were completely disregarded and not in the equation at all its still obvious that Move wasn't offering anything new or original. You said yourself the Wii concept is "proven and established", so there was no reason for Sony to reinvent the wheel. Microsoft didn't reinvent the wheel, instead they invented a helicopter. Why can't Sony do something original for once in their miserable lives?

Well copycat stuff sells well all the time.  Sometimes you get something like Guitar Hero where the copycat becomes a huge success while the innovator remains obscure.  Sony has found success with copycat stuff before so it still seems like a safer bet than going with a new idea that could bomb.  Plus there is value in matching the competition.  The Wii had something the PS3 did not.  Now it doesn't.  Now the PS3 can do everything the Wii can do plus more.
 
Copying the analog stick worked out fine for Sony.  Do you think a PS3 owner gives a **** if the idea has been done by someone else before?  All they give a damn about is that that feature is now available for the system that they own.  It is totally the safer idea, particularly when we're dealing with different systems.  It isn't like Sony is copying a game that is already on the PS3 and thus already available to PS3 users.  Plus now if a third party is making a motion control game they likely will have to pick between the Wii method or the Kinect method.  Sony's method is compatible with the market leading method.  A third party Wii game can, in theory, be easy to port to the PS3.  Sony does not have to compete with Nintendo for development.  If they did a brand new thing then it would be Nintendo vs. Sony vs. MS.  Third parties would have to pick and they might not pick Sony.  But now it is Sony/Nintendo vs. MS.  It's kind of like how despite Nintendo selling the most systems when it comes to third party support for everything but motion control it is Sony/MS vs. Nintendo.  Despite being in last place Sony can provide much better third party support to their users than Nintendo does because they can get an easy multiplatform release on Xbox 360 games.

[broodwars]

Partially due to Dead Space Extraction and partially due to wanting to replay Resident Evil 5 sometime soon, I picked up the Sports Champion Move Bundle and a Nav Controller today after trading in a few PS3 games.  I somewhat lucked out in that my local GS for some reason had already opened one of these bundles to show off to a customer, so I got a 10% discount on the bundle and only paid around $90 for the whole transaction.  I'm currently letting my Nav and Move controllers alternate charging.  Unfortunately, Sony made the camera way too heavy to sit perched on top of my flatscreen TV, so it's having to sit underneath the screen in front of the TV.  Hopefully, the system is designed to accommodate that.  I really don't care for how the Move controller's buttons are laid out in a square formation around the Move button rather than the familiar diamond pattern.  For a system designed to appeal to gamers that have at least some Playstation experience, that's an annoying oversight.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Partially due to Dead Space Extraction and partially due to wanting to replay Resident Evil 5 sometime soon, I picked up the Sports Champion Move Bundle and a Nav Controller today after trading in a few PS3 games.  I somewhat lucked out in that my local GS for some reason had already opened one of these bundles to show off to a customer, so I got a 10% discount on the bundle and only paid around $90 for the whole transaction.  I'm currently letting my Nav and Move controllers alternate charging.  Unfortunately, Sony made the camera way too heavy to sit perched on top of my flatscreen TV, so it's having to sit underneath the screen in front of the TV.  Hopefully, the system is designed to accommodate that.  I really don't care for how the Move controller's buttons are laid out in a square formation around the Move button rather than the familiar diamond pattern.  For a system designed to appeal to gamers that have at least some Playstation experience, that's an annoying oversight.

Yeah they are terribly placed. I've considered the nav controller for Heavy Rain (which utilizes the Move controller pretty well). I bought the sports champion bundle and one extra move controller (really enjoy the gladiator game)

[broodwars]

Partially due to Dead Space Extraction and partially due to wanting to replay Resident Evil 5 sometime soon, I picked up the Sports Champion Move Bundle and a Nav Controller today after trading in a few PS3 games.  I somewhat lucked out in that my local GS for some reason had already opened one of these bundles to show off to a customer, so I got a 10% discount on the bundle and only paid around $90 for the whole transaction.  I'm currently letting my Nav and Move controllers alternate charging.  Unfortunately, Sony made the camera way too heavy to sit perched on top of my flatscreen TV, so it's having to sit underneath the screen in front of the TV.  Hopefully, the system is designed to accommodate that.  I really don't care for how the Move controller's buttons are laid out in a square formation around the Move button rather than the familiar diamond pattern.  For a system designed to appeal to gamers that have at least some Playstation experience, that's an annoying oversight.

Yeah they are terribly placed. I've considered the nav controller for Heavy Rain (which utilizes the Move controller pretty well). I bought the sports champion bundle and one extra move controller (really enjoy the gladiator game)

I only played a little of Sports Champions, enough to play a little of every game, and it's surprisingly well-made.  Nothing I'll play for very long, but not a bad game.  I tried the demo for Heavy Rain with Move Support, and I just couldn't get the hang of it.  Gestures that were pretty simple to do with an analog stick on the Dualshock were annoyingly tricky to do with the Move controller.  Dead Space Extraction works really well with Move, though.  For a device that is supposedly terrible as a pointing device, it works pretty well for me.  I'm looking forward to replaying RE 5 with it.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Partially due to Dead Space Extraction and partially due to wanting to replay Resident Evil 5 sometime soon, I picked up the Sports Champion Move Bundle and a Nav Controller today after trading in a few PS3 games.  I somewhat lucked out in that my local GS for some reason had already opened one of these bundles to show off to a customer, so I got a 10% discount on the bundle and only paid around $90 for the whole transaction.  I'm currently letting my Nav and Move controllers alternate charging.  Unfortunately, Sony made the camera way too heavy to sit perched on top of my flatscreen TV, so it's having to sit underneath the screen in front of the TV.  Hopefully, the system is designed to accommodate that.  I really don't care for how the Move controller's buttons are laid out in a square formation around the Move button rather than the familiar diamond pattern.  For a system designed to appeal to gamers that have at least some Playstation experience, that's an annoying oversight.

Yeah they are terribly placed. I've considered the nav controller for Heavy Rain (which utilizes the Move controller pretty well). I bought the sports champion bundle and one extra move controller (really enjoy the gladiator game)

I only played a little of Sports Champions, enough to play a little of every game, and it's surprisingly well-made.  Nothing I'll play for very long, but not a bad game.  I tried the demo for Heavy Rain with Move Support, and I just couldn't get the hang of it.  Gestures that were pretty simple to do with an analog stick on the Dualshock were annoyingly tricky to do with the Move controller.  Dead Space Extraction works really well with Move, though.  For a device that is supposedly terrible as a pointing device, it works pretty well for me.  I'm looking forward to replaying RE 5 with it.

Heavy Rain does take getting used to, but once you do it pulls you into the game that much more.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Top Spin 4 (2k Sports) Commercial for Move starring Serena Williams..... SFW? maybe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12zTAKU-OrI

Serena is looking pretty damn hot.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Looks like PS3 has surpassed 50 million units shipped and Move has shipped over 8 million

PlayStation(R)3 Sales Reach 50 Million Units Worldwide / Sales of PlayStation(R)Move motion controller for PlayStation(R)3 (PS3(R)) surpass 8 million units worldwide, accelerating the expansion of the PS3 Platform.

TOKYO, April 15, 2011 /PRNewswire/ -- Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCE) today announced that the cumulative sales of the PlayStation(R)3 (PS3(R)) computer entertainment system reached a milestone of 50 million units(1) worldwide, as of March 29, 2011.

SCE also announced that PlayStation(R)Move sales surpassed 8 million units(1) worldwide as of April 3, demonstrating continued growth and momentum of the PS3 platform.

source

Thought I would post that since we've heard almost nothing about Move since Kinect reached it's 5million goal last year.

[Chozo Ghost]

I hear E.T. the video game shipped a lot of copies to a landfill. Point is: shipped doesn't mean the same thing as sales.

[broodwars]

I hear E.T. the video game shipped a lot of copies to a landfill. Point is: shipped doesn't mean the same thing as sales.

No, but it is some indication of what the sales are.  You don't make and ship more product if people aren't buying it.  Otherwise, it's just stock that's doomed to be shipped back to you if retailers purchase it altogether.  I'd say the actual Move sales are somewhere between 5-6 million units.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Why does everyone feel the need to point out that shipped and sold aren't exactly the same thing as if "SHIPPED" isn't what was said in the first place?

I know what shipped vs sold means, and I can only assume everyone else does too unless they actually mix up the words, which I have not done. TO my understanding the big 3 report their numbers in 2 to 3 different ways.

Sony reports "Shipped" as shipped to warehouses (as I've been told, but it could be the same as MS)
MS reports "Shipped" as sold to retailers (Retailers place an order, MS counts that as X units sold)
Nintendo reports "Sold" as in sold through to customers (mostly using 3rd party trackers)

I typed this message @ 12:30pst this afternoon, just realized I never sent it.