Topic: Rate the last TV show you've seen

[oohhboy]

Discovery: Just as I thought that was stunt casting. No doubt that was a shitty excuse to kill the captain and so Michaels can start(continue) the war with her own hands.Then there are all the people crying about fighting was not what they signed up for in Star Fleet and not remembering Enterprise's experience that Space is fucking dangerous.

I do not like the ascetics much at all. It's way too dark and back are those fucking lens flares but now in dark rooms. The Klingon ships are a hot mess not much different from a Michael Bay Transformer transition. There is no reason to be this dark all the time. I can't believe they made the Klingons even more impractical.

The technology is all over the place with the computer way more responsive than it should have been. Oddly specific force fields. That stupid Klingon beacon. Writing out the "Star".Vulcans can now mind meld and communicate over light-years because Sharek is just that powerful and important and Katras can do whatever.

The battle was pretty bad as again they went back to the JJ style rubbish flash. All visuals without any thought what is going where.

I really don't like Michaels. She reckless in her arrogance and not sociable or inherently likeable. I wouldn't care if she did stay in that jail cell for life. I know about her Vulcan background, not that you could miss it but this was ridiculous.

They pretty much killed or put everyone on the bus so I am not sure how she is going to carry the show. Everyone else had no subtleties to them as they are just as exaggerated as Michaels is.

I will stick around for a little more but I don't like what I am seeing.

[NWR_insanolord]

Enterprise's experience was 100 years before this show, it makes sense that people wouldn't be looking at it from that perspective. TNG showed what happens when Starfleet goes a century without facing a real threat, and the complacency and hubris that led them to make a cruise liner full of civilians the Federation flagship out in unknown territory is what prompted Q to introduce them to the Borg to jolt them out of it

The issue of the technology is pretty much impossible to get around. They chose to go with something that makes sense as 100 years after Enterprise and basically ignore the original series' sophistication and aesthetic, because you can't really reconcile the two.

As for the characters, I'm willing to chalk a lot of that up to trying to fit too much into a 1 hour pilot and give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll develop into more well rounded characters over time. I don't know if I'd be as willing to give them that if Nicholas Meyer weren't involved, but that man knows how to do Star Trek right.

[Plugabugz]

Enterprise's experience was 100 years before this show, it makes sense that people wouldn't be looking at it from that perspective. TNG showed what happens when Starfleet goes a century without facing a real threat, and the complacency and hubris that led them to make a cruise liner full of civilians the Federation flagship out in unknown territory is what prompted Q to introduce them to the Borg to jolt them out of it

I would argue that it was the Dominion resulting in the creation/completion of the Defiant.

I really liked the actors, but i'm not fond of the stunt casting. There was very high praise at the thought of an asian woman and a black woman leading a starship and they should have continued with that trend.

The issue i have with Discovery is that ENT, TOS and DSC all have three different aesthetics with the latter going wildly off into a different direction that doesn't actually align with TNG or what follows. I realise production techniques with set design improve from TOS to now, but ENT to TOS works but DSC jolts in a different direction that breaks the continuity.

DS9 skipped this issue by, 1 not being on a Starfleet station, and 2 and when they did we got a warship.

[oohhboy]

This doesn't feel like Nicholas Meyer at all. Its Meyer pretending to be JJ and he is so much worse for it. Khan, Voyage and Undiscovered are all his but Discovery is nothing like them. They were deliberate, well paced and didn't need to throw more plot points than it needed to. It was tight.

There was an old school epic-ness to them. When the Battle cruiser de-cloaks in Undiscovered it is graceful, menacing, the crew sells their dread in a few lines and excellent acting that 2 hours of mystery boxes, giant ship, contrived plot devices, flashing lights and shouting couldn't do. Make fun all you want , Shatner certainly does but he is a good actor.

The opening scene beggers belief as it is almost the same as the opening to Into Darkness and equally dumb.

Another thing I still can't believe they still have the NX class operational 100 years later. There weren't many of them and they were straight up retired or a museum ship at the end of Enterprise.

^^^

It was definitely the Dominion War. Running into the Borg did make Picard question continuing bring families on board it wasn't until the Defiant that the change was complete as that was their first dedicated warship.

The Sovereign Class Enterprise is still an exploration vessel of sorts but it is very, very heavily armed compared to it's contemporaries surging off hits from the Borg and fighting a ship more than twice the size with cloaking to a stand still.

Enterprise actually nailed the look of the ship in retrospect. They were still stuck with current engineering toggles and buttons but that made sense for the time. STD isn't long before TOS, if they wanted something that wasn't toggles they could have copied the bridges from the TOS high budget movies. It's would be absurd to see straight up TOS consoles as that was a budgetary concern than ascetics but the movies showed that you can improve the look without breaking the feel.

It was very obvious from the trailer that there had been a stunt casting as they almost exclusively focused on Michaels the entire time. With West World you couldn't tell until the episode that it happened in and even then you were hoping they won't die.

[BranDonk Kong]

The Opposition with Jordan Klepper
It's basically the Colbert Report...which is awesome.

[Plugabugz]

Another thing I still can't believe they still have the NX class operational 100 years later. There weren't many of them and they were straight up retired or a museum ship at the end of Enterprise.

Were was this said/shown? Given that ENT only ever showed 2 NX ships in the series (with plans for a few more) i find it a stretch that the design would last 100 years.

[NWR_insanolord]

They still had a bunch of Excelsior and Miranda class ships in TNG and DS9 almost 100 years after they went into service. That was mainly because the shows didn't have the budget to create new models, but it would suggest it's possible for ships, or at least classes, to remain in service that long.

[oohhboy]

Another thing I still can't believe they still have the NX class operational 100 years later. There weren't many of them and they were straight up retired or a museum ship at the end of Enterprise.

Were was this said/shown? Given that ENT only ever showed 2 NX ships in the series (with plans for a few more) i find it a stretch that the design would last 100 years.

You see one get blown up in the battle. Its over in a second but it's there. The NX ships were demonstrators for human starships and high warp factors. Since it was the only thing they had why not send them on missions even if just to flip off the Vulcans a little. One of the first thing I remember them doing was dropping communication relays so they weren't sending Archer off into deep space to go where no man has gone before since truckers had beaten them to it at the time.

They still had a bunch of Excelsior and Miranda class ships in TNG and DS9 almost 100 years after they went into service. That was mainly because the shows didn't have the budget to create new models, but it would suggest it's possible for ships, or at least classes, to remain in service that long.

I can see Excelsior and Miranda class still be around as space trucks and other second line service but to send them into battle is another story. It would be like sending in the USS Constitution or the HMS Victory to duke it out with a battleship.

[NWR_insanolord]

Lots of those Excelsiors and Mirandas fought in the Dominion War. Sisko commanded a Miranda class ship against the Borg at Wolf 359. When that's all you have available and in range, that's what you use. 

[oohhboy]

Lots of those Excelsiors and Mirandas fought in the Dominion War. Sisko commanded a Miranda class ship against the Borg at Wolf 359. When that's all you have available and in range, that's what you use.

Most of them blew up so not exactly a ringing endorsement.

[NWR_insanolord]

And the NX got blown up in this. But desperate times call for desperate measures.

[Khushrenada]

It's early so I'm not going to pass any major judgement on Star Trek: Discovery just yet. It's definitely a mixed bag. It's kind of funny but ST:Enterprise is kind of becoming one of the more important Trek series despite getting cancelled too early. By being set at the beginning of Starfleet's journey into the stars, it survives the timeline change of the new Star Trek movies and can still act as a link to the other Star Trek series that came before it even if it isn't really referenced by those series. Discovery itself seems to be taking cues from Enterprise a bit as well in the outer design of the ships and in the uniforms and I kind of like that. The original series does suffer from its uniforms and tech designs not really gelling well with the current timeline and series we have. The new movies do a bit better job in bridging that gap though. Besides Enterprise, Discovery also seems to be taking a lot of cues from the newer Star Trek movies as well. Considering how well they've done with casual fans, I suppose it makes sense in the hopes of attracting a wider audience since shrinking viewership is what led to the decline of the series. That said, I wish constant lens flares was not one of the elements they decided to bring over.

I was studying the uniforms for a bit in one portion and I really like them. That gold on blue and the gold Starfleet Logo is pretty snazzy. I wasn't a big fan of the purple turtleneck design introduced in DS9 and worn through all of Voyager and dislike the grey for everyone uniform in the latter half of DS9 with different colored turtlenecks for rank. The Enterprise uniforms were ok and helped make that link of early astronauts and The Right Stuff kind of vibe the show was going for but they weren't exactly appealing like something you'd want to dress up. But these uniforms? Yeah, I'd be excited to try one on. It's the most appealing uniform since the Season 3 uniform change of TNG. Always thought those were the best even if the actors didn't always care for them. But enough on that. It's kind of a minor point even if it seems to be one of the high points in the series favor so far.

Without a doubt, this series has some impressive graphical capability allowing for some interesting possibilities like the space suit flight or weirder alien species besides just different kinds of humanoids like the desert planet kind of hinted at. At the same time, that kind of stuff makes it harder for the series to fight in the timeline it should be since some of that stuff seems more advanced than what happens in the future. It would seem the smart thing to do would be to keep every new Trek series moving further into the future to allow the special effect or design dating to keep from making the timeline of tech portrayed from being all wonky. DS9 introduced holographic display and communication on ships. It was kind of a new technology and limited. It also appeared in like 2 episodes because the regular viewscreen was a pretty sufficient means of communication and only seemed to be created as a dramatic device to allow Sisko to be face to face with a particular nemesis as they attempted to best each other. In this show set in the past, holographic technology is so good that the person being emitted on the hologram can know what the space they are being projected in looks like to allow them to take advantage of it and sit on the corner of a desk as they talk. So much better than a viewscreen where you could be talking to someone while already sitting at the same time.

Considering the cues they are taking from the movies, I suppose it's best to just go with the idea of an alternate timeline and that TNG, DS9 and Voyager never happened or played out differently than as we know it. I use to get hung up on Smallville and all the stuff it was changing or getting wrong about Superman's history and mythos until one day I just thought of it as an Elseworlds kind of tale and that it was just someone else's spin and interpretation of Superman's history and not an actual canonical tale as it may have been presented or talked about when it first came out. Same thing with the Legend of Zelda series, I suppose. One can get hung up on timelines or one could just think of it as some games being canonical and some just being reboots or different interpretations of a myth by different cultures and just enjoy the story being presented at the time and not bother trying to connect it with other stories that have come before. That's what I'm telling myself to do here based on these first couple episodes but it ain't easy.

It's also hard to judge the show since we've yet to see what its regular crew is even going to look like yet. Same goes for the villains. The purpose / main drive of the show seems to be about a war with the Klingons although that's not exactly a new thing. The great leader of the Klingons and one of the few characters (maybe the only one) mildly interesting with his talk of "We come in peace" being an insidious threat is now dead. One supposes the house of none Klingon takes his place yet I find it hard that he could overcome Klingon prejudices to suddenly do this with the true leader dead. Who is going to be the Klingon figurehead now? There are other questions on the Klingon's motivations that need to be answered now as well.

It's a very odd series at the moment. Stuff is happening yet it is hard to know what is relevant when characters are quickly dying or hardly introduced. The only name that is sticking with me so far is Micheal because it just doesn't seem to fit or work as a girl's name. I suppose I should know it since she is supposed to be the main character pretty much but it's indicative of how the show seems to be focused on flash and action first and character second. That's rarely a winning combo. Still, I'm willing to stick around for awhile to see where it goes because the Star Trek universe still has a lot of elements that can be appealing even when the writing is subpar.

[oohhboy]

Many paragraphs but I can boil most of it down to "Nice special effects".

In Trek GFX has always been a bonus not the goal. Until JTrek it has always been Utopian ideals meets the road of reality. DS9 pushed this by making reality more grounded and real.

STD isn't long for this world, the Trek fans have already rejected it, the causals have burned out after Into Darkness as Beyond barely broke even. It doesn't matter if it has the Star Trek name or not if it is fundamentally terrible.

JJ pretty much trashed both Star Wars and Trek with the same awful tool box he brings to everything he makes. I respect and like Michael Bay more because he has made better movies than JJ ever has. JJ is the epitome of flash.

I highly, highly recommend you watch The Orville. It is excellent Trek and it hits the ground running unlike STD. It is lovingly well created and beats the true heart of Star Trek.

[Khushrenada]

However, let me tell you about a show I'm really passionate about it right now:

Good Eats.

This show had 14 seasons airing from 1999 to about 2012 and yet I'm only just discovering it now. It's hosted by Alton Brown who I've liked from my exposure to him on Iron Chef America and Cutthroat Kitchen plus some other Food Network bits he has done. He kind of made Iron Chef America for me because of his commentary and smarts. Well, Good Eats is how he got his start into the TV Business and Food Network and amazingly, I only found out about it a couple months ago.

I had stayed over one night at my parents place and was taking a flight home the next day in the evening so I had some time to chill. Flipping through the TV Channels, I came across the Cooking Channel which I didn't know excited since the last time I had cable (which is over a year ago) I never saw that channel listed as an option. It's like another Food Network but seems to be a bit more focused on actual cooking type shows than food competitions. Maybe some of you know all this already. It was news to me, though! The title intrigued me and seeing that it involved Alton Brown sold me on checking it out.

In case you haven't heard of the show, either, it is a program that will look at a type of dish or recipe and then get into the history or some facts about the dish, it will show you how to cook the dish but it will also get into the science behind it which explains what kind of chemical reactions are perhaps occurring or why certain ingredients work some ingredients but not others and various things like that. I was watching it with my brother and he commented that it was sort of like the Bill Nye the Science Guy for cooking shows. On Wikipedia, it references Alton Brown as saying he wanted the show to be a combination of Julia Child, Mr. Wizard and Monty Python rolled into one and I'd say it's a pretty good description of the show. It may not be as clever in humor as Monty Python but the humor is another factor that helps it stand out a bit from other cooking shows.

I only saw a couple episodes that one day but last week I went away for a bit of a family reunion and staying with my parents again gave me the chance to see some more episodes. In fact, it was something I was secretly hoping I'd be able to watch more of since those couple episodes I saw stuck with me. I was probably able to watch another 12 or 14 on this last visit. It's inspired me to start watching this entire series.

As such, I've now started watching the first season of the program and wow what a difference that is. The stuff I've seen seems to have come from the last 3 seasons. By that point, the show was a well oiled machine. The first season is a bit different from what I've now become use to. It's still got that blend of cooking, science and humour that drew me in but it can look sort of amateurish at times. I'd almost liken it to having a similar vibe to a YouTube channel cooking show. Alton isn't the polished professional that I'm used to from all the previous media I've seen him do. It's kind of interesting to see him here as he's starting out. The second episode I noticed this habit he had of starting of every second sentence or so with the word now. It kind of became cringe-worthy yet slightly comical. Perhaps he picked up on that too since I haven't noticed him doing that a few episodes after. The other difference is that the later season shows I watched had him tackling topics like doing tempura fry, baklava, or paella. Big dishes or more complex kinds of food preparation. Yet, these first few episodes are like beginner's cooking. How to boil or fry an egg. How to cook a baked potato or make a vinegarete dressing for a salad. It kind of adds to the amateur vibe going on. That said, it's still interesting to learn about the science behind some of these basics cooking lessons and they're still pretty essential things to learn plus he does do some things quite differently than I've seen done. Now that I know his reasoning behind his methods, I'm a lot more willing to change up how I cook some things or try his way. I've never seen a Caesar Salad recipe constructed in the method he presented so now I'm curious to try it out and see what it is like.

He says early on in one of the first episodes something along the lines that Good Eats isn't about presenting an exact recipe of how to make or replicate the dishes being made but that it is about getting people to experiment with cooking things on their own and know how to make things without having to consult a recipe list every time. Part of that is because things are going to cook differently. The age of food, the appliances or tools being used, even one's elevation depending on where they live can all be factors in cooking times or how food may turn out. Understanding the process is important to ensuring better success when doing the cooking yourself and that's a skill I've been very interested in.

When I watch a show like Chopped and contestants are giving mystery ingredients they have to work with, I've always been impressed at how the cooks are able to come up with dishes and ways to incorporate that food on the spot without consulting some kind of cookbook or recipe. Another show I've recently gotten into is Masterchef which I watched last year and this year. Again, the home chefs on that show are able to replicate or come up with meals on the spot all the time and I just marvel at how they can do that. Well, Good Eats is like the culinary school I need to get that skill. I'm probably going to start rewatching some episodes and take some notes to try all this stuff (even going over the basics.) I may even begin revamping my kitchen and buying some new equipment to aid me in this endeavor.

Having done some reading up on the history of this show, I've learned that Alton Brown is in the process of actually bringing it back. The successor show is going to be called Return of the Eats and will be jointly aired on Food Network and the internet with additional content being made online. It's to air sometime next year. I guess the show has maintained a pretty popular following during it's air time with fans hoping it would return. Having just begun diving into it, I can see why. I just wish I had known about it sooner.

[Khushrenada]

Many paragraphs but I can boil most of it down to "Nice special effects".

In Trek GFX has always been a bonus not the goal. Until JTrek it has always been Utopian ideals meets the road of reality. DS9 pushed this by making reality more grounded and real.

STD isn't long for this world, the Trek fans have already rejected it, the causals have burned out after Into Darkness as Beyond barely broke even. It doesn't matter if it has the Star Trek name or not if it is fundamentally terrible.

JJ pretty much trashed both Star Wars and Trek with the same awful tool box he brings to everything he makes. I respect and like Michael Bay more because he has made better movies than JJ ever has. JJ is the epitome of flash.

I highly, highly recommend you watch The Orville. It is excellent Trek and it hits the ground running unlike STD. It is lovingly well created and beats the true heart of Star Trek.

I have been meaning to check out The Orville and I'll probably give it a whirl and get caught up on it soon enough. However, back before either The Orville or Discovery aired, I was thinking of making a prediction in the New Shows to Look Out For thread that we could see the repeat of another curious TV incident from a few years ago play out again here.

In 2006, there were 2 shows that aired in the fall / new TV season. These 2 shows were both about the behind the scenes nature of a sketch comedy show a la SNL. One was a drama and one was a comedy. The drama was called Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip. It was created and being written by Aaron Sorkin now that the highly successful The West Wing he was responsible for had just ended in the spring. Talking about this show, Nathan Rabin on the AV Club wrote: "The arrogance extended to filling the cast with a murderer’s row of familiar faces. Studio 60’s main and guest cast doubles as a living television history." The comedy, however, was called 30 Rock. It was created by Tina Fey who was also the head writer and star. Although she'd done some good work on SNL, this was her first show that she had created and she herself admitted "it's just bad luck for me that in my first attempt at prime time I'm going up against the most powerful writer on television." The cast of the show was also a bit more obscure perhaps than that of Studio 60 aside from Alec Baldwin.

The thinking and expectation from most people and critics at the time was that Studio 60 would probably be the bigger hit and that it would outlast 30 Rock. And in that first year, 30 Rock's ratings were lackluster and they were less than Studio 60's ratings. Yet, it was Studio 60 that was cancelled at the end of the year because it was more expensive to produce while 30 Rock would go on to be renewed for a second season. Even more incredible, its fortunes would change dramatically as it would go on to win the Emmy for Best Comedy 3 years in a row. Studio 60, on the other hand, grew to have huge disdain thrown at it and create a negative reaction for most people who had watched it. Nathan Rabin, who I quoted earlier, did an article about it under his series My Year of Flops about the obsessive hate the series seemed to generate from those that watched it and discussed why it is considered such a flop today.

And now here we are with two sci-fi shows with quite a few similarities to each other. One is a drama with a big budget and big expectations and one is comedy with a smaller budget and middling expectations. It wouldn't surprise me if once again the comedy show ends up being the bigger hit and success than the drama.

[Khushrenada]

One of the things that struck me when watching Discovery (since I'm going through all manner of topics on this show) is the amount of executive producers listed in the credits. There may be more there than actual actors listed. I'll have to watch the next episode and do a count. To me, that's another sign of trouble. Having all these voices and people involved can make things very muddled.

It doesn't help that CBS is trying to use this show to launch its streaming service. If it doesn't like the numbers or revenue from the people subscribing to it, what do you think will happen to the show? Not only that, it's an unproven show. Yes, it is Star Trek so it is not a completely new concept but each series has differed in popularity so just it being Star Trek isn't enough to guarantee the quality. Now imagine if The Next Generation had been on the air and suddenly it was announced that Season 4 or Season 5 was going to be moved to a special pay channel. How many people do you think would plunk out the cash then? It would probably have worked very well since the show had worked out its kinks and become very popular and much better written. It would probably have gotten some scorn by a lot of fans towards the network for creating that paywall but despite that negativity, the show would probably still have been able to overcome it.

Discovery already had that negativity of putting it behind a paywall (streaming service) before it even aired or could establish goodwill with the fanbase. Therefore, it almost had to be doubly good in order to overcome the initial negativity the network basically created for it and, so far, with the two episodes presented, it has been unable to meet that challenge and has instead caused even more negativity going by oohhboy's comments.

[Spak-Spang]

Good Eats is seriously a great show.  I love the mixture of learning science, history and culture wrapped around a cooking show.  It has heart is funny and literally yhe best show Food Network has ever made.

[oohhboy]

One of the things that struck me when watching Discovery (since I'm going through all manner of topics on this show) is the amount of executive producers listed in the credits. There may be more there than actual actors listed.

I did a count on IMDB. There are 40 actors listed and 30 producers. 21 producers are in the opening credits to 7 actors. There would be more producers in the opening if they weren't in other positions. They started listing them 2 at a time so they wouldn't run out of opening.

[Khushrenada]

Good Eats is seriously a great show.  I love the mixture of learning science, history and culture wrapped around a cooking show.  It has heart is funny and literally yhe best show Food Network has ever made.

I'd have to agree with you. It was clear to me from the first couple episodes I watched that it was a special show and now any other cooking show I watch is going to suffer in comparison.

One of the things that struck me when watching Discovery (since I'm going through all manner of topics on this show) is the amount of executive producers listed in the credits. There may be more there than actual actors listed.

I did a count on IMDB. There are 40 actors listed and 30 producers. 21 producers are in the opening credits to 7 actors. There would be more producers in the opening if they weren't in other positions. They started listing them 2 at a time so they wouldn't run out of opening.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Oh wow! Thanks for doing the research. That's ridiculous! Now I'm wondering if there was any other show or movie with that amount of producers and how successful it was. That doesn't inspire confidence when you see that. When I saw the opening credits the first time, I was focusing on the images and the music but I thought I noticed a few producer credits. With the second episode, I definitely noticed a lot of producer credits but didn't think to count them. Now I know.

[oohhboy]

I didn't notice until you asked. The I don't doubt there is a correlation between the number of producers and the quality of the show.

Just from the sheer number of people you are going to get an overwhelming amount of "Ideas" that frequently conflict with each other put forth by people who don't know what they are doing with some being at each other's throats, all this backed up with by being the people with the money.

[NWR_insanolord]

I was curious, so I went and looked, and the credits for the Simpsons episode You Only Move Twice list 19 producers.

[Plugabugz]

My non-trekkie friend watched the first episode of Discovery, and one of the things he kept saying was "this looks like a movie" and "this is very glossy". Given the budget is said to be around $8m/episode that doesn't surprise me very much, but going back into the early point of the timeline doesn't allow for the corridors to be much wider than on TOS (and what follows), darker lit, feature holo-projection screens (which DS9 showed once in a future timeline) and feature a plot about these spores being used as a near-instant transportation method, which if it was successful would render the entire plot of Voyager inert

The Orville is an interesting show in that its a big budget scifi that aims lower; it's very much trying to capture the joy and spirit of TNG but with the obvious weak link of Seth MacFarlane in the front and his particular brand of humour. I really like the idea of a single-sex species and what that could mean, and i'm glad they are developing that (although several other characters have barely been developed beyond "dude-bro"). There's some potential here, but it has to nudge itself in a different direction humour wise.

[oohhboy]

STD Episode 3: Is this for real?
 
 They made an excuse as to why the ship is all dark and **** because the captain got an eye injury so he needs a low light environment to recover, instead of you know wearing badass sunglasses so you don't impose your problem on everyone else and to help hide your motives. He even says the low light makes him mysterious. It's low light even when the captain isn't in the room if not darker in some places.
 
 As for one of the current mystery boxes would have been literally better off making a genocidal genetic virus like in DS9 instead a canon breaking device that even breaks JTrek that makes huge swaths of technology obsolete.
 
 It has Zapp Brannigan level of security where you use your breath to get into top secret areas.
 
 People keep feeding Michaels top secret information because she kept bugging and bullying everyone about what they are doing instead of respecting security like she has been trained to do even though she still believes in being a first officer. She starts sprouting conventions and rules despite her constant disregard for said rules.
 
 You would think being the most infamous and hated person in the federation people wouldn't to talk to her other than tell her to shut the **** up if not try to murder her especially when this is all suppose to be edgy, literally dark and grim.
 
 She refuses to work again breaking the chain of command while saying that she has a debt for her crimes when she is clearly being offered a chance at redemption even though she is one of the primary causes of said problem.
 
 She keeps deducing a bunch of things like the BS excuse to get her on the ship but misses multiple offers for atonement even though she reads a actual book full of abstract ideas and use of language. And good god her arrogance and entitlement didn't take long to resurface.
 
 I am not sure what she has is so brilliant that she has to be on the ship at all considering the other ship had achieved that very goal already before she was even on the ship. The captain even demonstrates it to Michaels after saying it doesn't work, assuming its not something else that breaks canon.
 
 You create an uncontrollable resident evil style bio-weapon because you couldn't have thought of a better way to kill people? Mystery box!
 
 We don't even see what a Federation prison is like which given the other prisoner's response is a lot more violent than the holiday inn Tom Paris was at in New Zealand.
 
 It is impressive how much they go out of their way to **** up even the basics that require no knowledge of Trek to spot never mind the original themes Trek is built on.

[ThePerm]

Brightly lit looks better to me, for Star Trek that is.

unless your going for a lived in Aliens/Star Wars/Blade Runner vibe.

I need to catch up on season 3 of Dark Matter which I've found to be an excellent show.

[oohhboy]

Alien(s) and Blade Runners lighting worked because they knew what they were doing. It was dark, but what was important was still lit and could be seen working the scene as a whole.

JTrek and JWars do not. It's not even a misunderstanding, it's wilful ignorance. Your sets could be million dollar wonders shot with 4K RED but if you can't see them you might as well have spent nothing.

It's no a completely new trend as shows like CSI had work spaces lit so poorly you wonder how any crime busting happens or how many innocent people got sent to prison because they couldn't see their work.

I really appreciate shows that use lighting appropriately for the environment it is in even if the show itself is garbage.