Topic: Nintendo - "Wii are confused."

[Peachylala]

I find this kind of intriging.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/100/1008359p1.html

Even Nintendo doesn't know why these "hardcore" games are not selling.

Yet to be fair, it's not really Nintendo's fault these games aren't selling. It's either: a) our fault because we bitch about the lack of hardcore games yet WE DON'T BUY THEM. b) 3rd Excuse Makers don't advertise them enough. c) Entertainment value and replayability. Conduit is good for an FPS... it's just so genetic, and Madworld entertains for only six hours.

You know the Wii is a great console when the company who makes it is just as confused as we are. I love you so much, Nintendo. :3

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I think we answer this on a daily basis.

Nintendo did a combination of things well enough to make Wii so successful on one end, while Nintendo and 3rd Excuse Partners fail a combination of things to fail so hard on the other end.

[Nick DiMola]

Again, these games aren't selling because they aren't all that good.

When a really good "hardcore" title comes around, let me know.

[Mop it up]

When a really good "hardcore" title comes around, let me know.

There's a problem right there: most "hardcore" gamers are a fastidious bunch and aren't going to buy anything which gets an average review rating of less than 9. The market is flooded with too many games. If companies released less games but made them better, they would sell a lot better.

[Nick DiMola]

Mop_it_up is catching my drift.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

OK, so it means marketable, industry self-destructing, universally over-rated games are needed.

[Mop it up]

You mean like Halo.

[Nick DiMola]

OK, so it means marketable, universally overrrated games are needed.

Well the gaming media seems to call for them, but they sure as hell aren't needed. Most "hardcore" games blow anyway. Shallow gorefests with bald space marines.

[Plugabugz]

Because everyone, Nintendo included, cannot market games that are not everyone-oriented (read: single player) to save their lives.

I just saw an advert for EA Sports Active where it was a woman exercising with the game. The tagline mentioned its RRP, OUT NOW and the name of the game. End. I now want it.

That's all it needs to do. How hard is that?

[BlackNMild2k1]

When a really good "hardcore" title comes around, let me know.

There's a problem right there: most "hardcore" gamers are a fastidious bunch and aren't going to buy anything which gets an average review rating of less than 9. The market is flooded with too many games. If companies released less games but made them better, they would sell a lot better.

It's the approach the Ubisoft is making, so atleast one 3rd party is trying to stop making excuses.
EA might qualify for the same philosophy(atleast when it comes to sports).

[EasyCure]

To Everybody:

Buy Rune Factory Frontier. It's hardcore, it has infinate replay value because the game doesn't freakin' end. It keeps waggle as an optional minimum, for those of you who are picky about this sorta thing (Press A to use your tools/weapons..or waggle..or just use the classic controller and use A, still).

[JRNN]

To Everybody:

Buy Rune Factory Frontier. It's hardcore, it has infinate replay value because the game doesn't freakin' end. It keeps waggle as an optional minimum, for those of you who are picky about this sorta thing (Press A to use your tools/weapons..or waggle..or just use the classic controller and use A, still).

Ive seen a gameplay of that and it does look real fun, I might get my hands on it

[broodwars]

To Everybody:

Buy Rune Factory Frontier. It's hardcore, it has infinate replay value because the game doesn't freakin' end. It keeps waggle as an optional minimum, for those of you who are picky about this sorta thing (Press A to use your tools/weapons..or waggle..or just use the classic controller and use A, still).

Sorry, but I got my fill of Rune factory with the first game.  I have to agree with what several others have said: the reason the "hardcore games" on Wii haven't been selling is that they're just not that good, certainly not up to par with what Nintendo can produce when they're in the mood.  They're experimental; interesting; and perhaps even moderately entertaining, but they just don't "bring the awesome" I can get on other platforms (and for the record, I'm not a fan of any of the "generic space marine" games).  I just went out today and put down my full pre-order on Metroid Prime trilogy (sorry, it took me a while to find enough games I could bear sacrificing to it), and that's probably the only "hardcore game" I'm buying this year on Wii outside maybe Dead Space: Extraction and/or Silent Hill.  I just have better options elsewhere.

If 3rd parties (and Nintendo as well, for that matter) want my money, they need to step it up and put the same effort into their Wii games that they put into their PS3 and Xbox 360 games.

[EasyCure]

To Everybody:

Buy Rune Factory Frontier. It's hardcore, it has infinate replay value because the game doesn't freakin' end. It keeps waggle as an optional minimum, for those of you who are picky about this sorta thing (Press A to use your tools/weapons..or waggle..or just use the classic controller and use A, still).

Ive seen a gameplay of that and it does look real fun, I might get my hands on it

I haven't been able to shut up about this game since i bought it (and i'm sure the lot of you have noticed) and its not because I want to be annoying, this is just the most fun i've had with a new game in some time. The last 1st party game i bought was probably Mario Galaxy (i'm not counting Excitebots, which was tons of fun but not from Nintendos top devs) and, surprisingly, i've been showing 3rd party software a lot of support this gen... but of course the majority of these games never match the quality of fun as Nintendo's. Until Rune Factory Frontier came along.

It was everything i expected it to be, but a lot more fun and engaging. I can't put the thing down when i start playing! Even with Mario Galaxy, it was easy to put down. I guess RFF just lends itself to a more adictive gameplay. The thing is, if it wasn't the slightest bit fun, it wouldn't be as hard to put down. Basically, I highly recommend this game to EVERYONE. It shouldn't be overlooked, seriously.

To Everybody:

Buy Rune Factory Frontier. It's hardcore, it has infinate replay value because the game doesn't freakin' end. It keeps waggle as an optional minimum, for those of you who are picky about this sorta thing (Press A to use your tools/weapons..or waggle..or just use the classic controller and use A, still).

Sorry, but I got my fill of Rune factory with the first game.

Ok, ^he's the exception I never played the first one. I heard about it, but didnt pay much attention until i found out it was basically a suped up Harvest Moon, but by the time i found out i heard a sequel was announced and was supposed to fix the stuff everyone hated about the first one. Never once seen the damn thing in stores (and i dont purchase stuff online) so RFF is my first time playing a game in the series. I'm LOVING it.

[Ian Sane]

This is too much of the "every game is equal" mentality that videogame companies have.  These are NOT AAA third party titles aimed at the core market.  This are B-games that only stand out in the absense of AAA third party games.  Take the five best Wii third party games and I'll bet they would look weak compared to the top third party games for the other systems for the last year alone.  If there was one console that had all the games for the Wii, PS3 and Xbox 360 on it these games wouldn't sell then either.  But in that case no one would make a big stink about it either because a title like MadWorld would be expected to be more of a cult hit and would try to make a profit from that kind of market.  It's like if Capcom expected God Hand to be a huge system selling hit on the PS2.

If you look at the top tier of Wii titles it's pretty much just first party efforts.  Now maybe you think Nintendo makes the best games so it tops the other consoles.  But on the other consoles there are more titles in the top tier.  Maybe those games aren't quite as good as Nintendo's but if you like the best stuff there is more to choose from that is at that level.  If you want the best on the Wii, you're getting like two games a year.

The Cube didn't have very good third party support but you did get third party games of similar quality to Nintendo themselves.  Rogue Leader, Soul Calibur II and the Resident Evil games could compete with Nintendo's first party efforts.  The drop off on the Wii is much more steep.  You have like five 10s and a whole lot of 7s while the PS360 has lots of 8s and 9s.

It could also just be that years of really bad third party support and Nintendo's perceived emphasis on the casual market (last year's infamous E3 for example) may have pigeonholed the Wii as the casual console that you keep around just to play Nintendo's own games.  Honestly I only really encounter much interest in the Wii on Nintendo sites.  General videogaming forums that tend to attract hardcore gamers tend to not pay much attention to the Wii, except when first party titles are announced or released.  I found the Cube got caught in this rut as well as the machine you have for Nintendo games but really nothing else.  It's like Nintendo games are a premium to a hardcore gamer as he has to buy a second console to get access to those games.

The Wii has such a bad third party reputation that the target market for these games possibly just assumes it's not worth looking into because when they bought their Wii all the third party games were PS2 ports and shitty Ubisoft games.  "So third party X is releasing a Wii exclusive?  It'll probably suck because nobody makes good Wii third party games.  Hey a new Metroid!  Good thing I bought that Wii for special occasions like this!"  Even a name brand isn't going to attract attention because of the reputation for spin-offs.

[Plugabugz]

This is too much of the "every game is equal" mentality that videogame companies have.  These are NOT AAA third party titles aimed at the core market.  This are B-games that only stand out in the absense of AAA third party games.  Take the five best Wii third party games and I'll bet they would look weak compared to the top third party games for the other systems for the last year alone.  If there was one console that had all the games for the Wii, PS3 and Xbox 360 on it these games wouldn't sell then either.  But in that case no one would make a big stink about it either because a title like MadWorld would be expected to be more of a cult hit and would try to make a profit from that kind of market.  It's like if Capcom expected God Hand to be a huge system selling hit on the PS2.

If you look at the top tier of Wii titles it's pretty much just first party efforts.  Now maybe you think Nintendo makes the best games so it tops the other consoles.  But on the other consoles there are more titles in the top tier.  Maybe those games aren't quite as good as Nintendo's but if you like the best stuff there is more to choose from that is at that level.  If you want the best on the Wii, you're getting like two games a year.

The Cube didn't have very good third party support but you did get third party games of similar quality to Nintendo themselves.  Rogue Leader, Soul Calibur II and the Resident Evil games could compete with Nintendo's first party efforts.  The drop off on the Wii is much more steep.  You have like five 10s and a whole lot of 7s while the PS360 has lots of 8s and 9s.

I agree with this. Except, aside from Nintendo, those high marks and polished games are coming from smaller developers (World of Goo), or from larger ones who make a very good game as an accident (Zack & Wiki).

[Nick DiMola]

A lot of those 8/9 games on the Hi-Def systems aren't all that good. They were overhyped and were predestined for great scores regardless of their actual quality. Hey, that reminds me of that one Wii game in black and white, what was that, Madworld?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

MadWorld was underhyped.

But, it debuted at $10 less than the typical High Drama game, on Standard Drama-priced console.

[BwrJim!]

I wouldnt call Zack and Wiki and accident.  It is a very well done game that was testing out new marketing strategies for capcom.   Word of mouth and internet buzz without an real hype. They wanted to work this strategy to foster more and more money.  In their games today, you can still see this trend.

ask seth

[Peachylala]

MadWorld was underhyped.

But, it debuted at $10 less than the typical High Drama game, on Standard Drama-priced console.

MadWorld is good, for a brawler. It doesn't hurt that the game was made by the guy who made VIEWTIFUL JOE and it uses the same graphical engine, which I absolutely loved.

But underhyped? Sega did pretty good with advertising, which in other words isn't blanant lying which they usually do. (y halo thr Sonic Unleashed)

@broodwars: When Nintendo is in the mood? So it's kind of like when I'm in the mood to play video games; they decide whether we deserve a bone or not. Like that.

[broodwars]

@broodwars: When Nintendo is in the mood? So it's kind of like when I'm in the mood to play video games; they decide whether we deserve a bone or not. Like that.

Yeah, pretty much.  If I didn't have faith that the good stuff would eventually be coming from Nintendo (particularly Zelda), I'd have sold off my Satisfaction-Deficient Wii long ago and gone completely Hardcore Dominated, Highly Developed, Heavily Destitute (  ) gaming on my PS3.  But every once in a while Nintendo still tosses us a Smash Bros. or Metroid or whatnot.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"Sega did pretty good with advertising"

I disagree.  Like some marketting campains in the past, the ad contents were fairly obscure and mostly wacky, not really getting the point (rather, the exciting parts) of the gameplay across.  This traces all the way back to art/gameplay of the game, which (time and again, this sort of thing) is too intense to display in public (no casual actors performing motions while smiling, which quickly cut to scenes of men being cut in half).  So, they're not showing the details of the "real" visuals, and they're not detailing its relationship with the Wii Remote gameplay.  And those DeathWatch ads, beyond the Sportscaster guys it was hard to make out anything.

Actually, ESRB has to take part of the blame, cuz all the neat, graphic stuff was cut from the official public-audience trailers (at least in Amerika).  Sega/Platinum went overboard to satisfy the ratings guidelines for game trailers.  MadWorld also missed the E3 2008 window, meaning Sega missed an opportunity to interface with retailers earlier on.

Considering the fruits of the marketing campaign, i'd say the money was wasted since I'm under the impression that the enthusiast press did a much better job of selling the game than the ads did.

[Nick DiMola]

Considering the fruits of the marketing campaign, i'd say the money was wasted since I'm under the impression that the enthusiast press did a much better job of selling the game than the ads did.

This is exactly what I meant when I said overhyped. The entire press adored this game and built it up to be something it could never be. It was the beacon of hope for hardcore Wii games ... until IGN put out their review and mentioned just how damn short it was. The walls then crumbled in on this game and many potential customers, like myself, held off and simply rented to get their fix.

[Tanatoes]

Okay: I buy almost everything.  Well, not the shevelware Wii party games and very rarely the movie tie-ins, but I do spend probably $500 a month on games at a minimum.  And I have been generally disappointed in the Wii lineup in terms of epic lengthy and engrossing games.  My favorite games I played in the last couple years were:

Fallout 3 (I'm still playing it about every day now.. just beat the Pitt DLC and am about to buy more.. it's a gift that keeps on giving and I haven't even completed the main game!)

Burnout Paradise (My favorite racing game of all time!  So easy to just jump in and play any time and so much to explore and discover.  I haven't bought the paid DLC yet, but I will probably do so soon.)

Mass Effect (A fairly short game, but with a grand and epic feel and some very good world building and writing behind it.)

Overlord (Hilarious and fun, some cool puzzles and again some great writing)

Assassin's Creed (A little repetitive as a game, but I simply LOVED exploring the vast cities and climbing all around.)

Bio Shock (Another quick game with stellar writing and world building.  It's System Shock with a new coat of paint, and I LOVED IT!)

All of those are on the 360

On the Wii I've mostly been playing:

Animal Crossing City Folk (A port of a DS game.  I play it about daily.)

Rock Band 2 (I'm not too good at it.. I've only just begun to use the orange button, but it's so much FUN!)

Tiger Woods '10.  (It's still too new to say if it has lasting power, but I do love playing a round of golf with the M+)

And Harvest Moon Rune Factory.. which clearly has the longevity.  Man does it have longevity.  If I could only afford one game per year I would want either Fallout 3 or Rune Factory Wii.

But over all it feels like my Wii games are for shorter bursts and lack a kind of epic grandness that the 360 games on my top list offer.  Not sure why that is.  Hopefully when we start getting some bigger JRPGs on the Wii that will help.  I'm very much looking forward to Chrystal Bearers, Dragon Quest 10 (I know, it's at least two or three years out) and Monster Hunter.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Considering the fruits of the marketing campaign, i'd say the money was wasted since I'm under the impression that the enthusiast press did a much better job of selling the game than the ads did.

This is exactly what I meant when I said overhyped. The entire press adored this game and built it up to be something it could never be. It was the beacon of hope for hardcore Wii games ... until IGN put out their review and mentioned just how damn short it was. The walls then crumbled in on this game and many potential customers, like myself, held off and simply rented to get their fix.

I'm trying to make the distinction that because IGN (and let's not forget GoNintendo, a hype catalyst in bearded format) was the loudest voice for the game, the marketing campaign was lacking and thus the game was underhyped.  In an extreme case, Ikaruga got a decent shout out from IGN, and a nearly nonexistant marketing campaign.  If MadWorld had "real" overhype, we'd have seen more in-store/physical/media promotion, an extensive TV campaign that targetted a thought-out range of programming, AND it would have received decent coverage in multi-platipus gaming magazines.  So even if IGN (who flex their muscles through the power of mere internet text) was silent about the title, MadWorld's product image still would've been tough not to notice -- and that's how PS3/360 game marketing is handled, thru decent execution of assault-the-customer promo imagery backed by big marketing budgets (cuz gaming forums and gaming press don't necessarily reach the public like good old fashioned Hollywood-style marketing does).

~~~~~

I remember when brawlers used to be button based, cost $70, and lasted about 2 hours.  Times have changed.