Topic: Rape Games and You

[DAaaMan64]

Fine.

We can look to the constitution for guidance on this one.  Firstly, rape games would fall under social issue, defaulting it to 10th Amendment material, in other words, laws about rape games are state level exclusively.  SO, under the 1st Amendment the FEDERAL government cannot make them illegal, however, state level it is up to the inhabitants of that state to decide. 

Doesn't the SCOTUS interpret the first amendment to mean both federal and state levels? Many videogame restriction laws got shot down by that. However they also arbitrarily decide that porn has no value and is therefore not speech. I'd say objectivism is clearly devoid of any value but I doubt they'd let me ban Ayn Rand...

Ayn Rand is a bad place to start banning people. Rand likes freedom a lot, so she wouldn't ban you.  You should start by banning those who would ban you, it's what Hitler did.

Anyway, SCOTUS interprets many things in many many amazing ways. But, in general, the Bill of Rights does not usually transcend into State Government unless that state's constitution specifically says that. However, most states have the Bill of Rights in their constitution in one way or another. Ex.  Amendment 10 of the WA state constitution is gun rights, a.k.a. "Militia"

[KDR_11k]

Also, fun fact: almost-popular fighting game Melty Blood is basically a spinoff of a hentai game

One that may people here probably know because it's called Tsukihime and the corresponding anime was released in the US AFAIK.

[Spak-Spang]

Here is the problem I see.  Should graphic Rape games be allowed?  No.  In fact Hell No, those games should not exist.  But, whenever censorship gets involved people swing too far the other direction.  I don't know why it is.  Perhaps because they enjoy the power and realize their actions can change the shape of society.  Or they are activists which went into the field to change society and are just waiting. 
Whatever the reason it is occurs and people are forced to fight against it and stand up for some truly horrible things to protect people's rights in other areas.

Unfortunately, it is hard to find a happy medium and you can't just leave it alone because leaving man to be responsible for their actions never works. 

In the end, can rape be in games, yes...if done appropriately, just like any material should be in games if done appropriately...should graphic rape games or games glorifying such before be censored?  Yes.  The ultimate problem becomes who decides what is decent...

[Deguello]

Let's get away from the religious discussion everybody.  That's a one-way ticket to Threadlockville.

Anybody else think this post is deliciously ironic considering the thread's material?

[Smash_Brother]

Pretty sure that's the exact opposite of what he said in that vid, in which he encourages us to argue a lot and not roll over like babies. Although that vid was a long and insane propaganda-like video, he is right that the freedom of game design is automatically the winning side of the argument vs censored content and the only way to lose that argument in the arena of debate is to be a fuckup. I believe that accepting a ban on a type of game (even an awful one) rather than standing firm on a no-censorship policy would be fucking up -because- things we actually do like would be censored as well. Ergo, Smash_Brother is wrong and I am right.

My point was that these people are believers, like he said. Nothing will change their minds so why bother trying?

But not defending rape games isn't going to swell into the destruction of the entire industry. There's too much power behind it.

Although I agree that this is usually how things like this get started, thinking about it now, I'm not at all worried about it happening. It'd be one thing if it was only Nintendo as a console maker, but Microsoft? This is the behemoth that made an open and shut monopoly suit against them disappear.

When this happened to the comics industry, it was happening to a bunch of guys with little power and nothing in the way of political sway.

But again, MICROSOFT. Does anyone honestly think Microsoft will sit idly by and watch while a bunch of nutcases pass a bill that bans violent games entirely, effectively snuffing out the primary source of their bread and butter?

That bill will never make it through into law. There are far too many wealthy and powerful organizations who benefit from the gaming industry to ever let it happen. The public outcry would have to be so great that it would be damaging the economy before anyone acted on it, and let's be honest, people just don't care that much. From what I've heard, the word "rape" is already the #1 searched word on the internet and I've yet to see people rallying in the streets in protest.

In summary, no, there's no need to defend rape games. The remainder of the industry will be just fine.

[Stratos]

That's a little disturbing that rape is so heavily searched. And to dig a whole different can of worms, I wonder how many of these people are victims too afraid to speak out.

Needless to say, I'm going to be more stubborn than ever about escorting lady friends to their door or car. Some of us already did it at school because our college is in the worst part of Portland.

[redgiemental]

Just to respond to a few people first of all

Smash Brother to be perfectly honest I don't think Microsoft cares very much about the artistic integrity of the medium. If they stand to lose money they'll fight. If a government was playing to ban all sexual acts or suggestion (drugs or any supposedly taboo subject for the sake of argument) in video games and Microsoft didn't think it would have a noticeable effect on their profits I don't think they'd lift a finger to stop the censorship. So I don't think I agree with your view that everything will be alright.

Also Smash Brother have you ever seen A Clockwork Orange? The protagonist rapes a helpless woman in front of her husband (admittedly not a child) near the beginning of the film but by the end you are led to feel some sympathy and warmth for the character. The film was rated X but was allowed to be released unedited.

Spak-Spang why would it matter to you that someone down the street is playing a rapegame in his house, alone not hurting anyone?

KDR is right about internet censorship. Almost all censorship movements over step their original mission statement.

Deguello don't be obtuse there is an obvious inherent need for slander and libel laws as people need a reliable source of news and people should not have their reputation ruined by lies and misconceptions. That has nothing to do with limiting artistic expression. It is a straw man argument at best.

They could distribute it via the internet but not via any other means this is not "free distribution" that is restricted distribution by definition.

I can see Ian's argument about picking your battles but censorship is wrong in all cases. As long as no-one is harmed in the process of making something then there is no rational argument for banning something.

After all if no-one wanted the product no-one would buy it but some people do so they must enjoy it. You should not trample the rights of some to suit the tastes of others.

[Smash_Brother]

Smash Brother to be perfectly honest I don't think Microsoft cares very much about the artistic integrity of the medium. If they stand to lose money they'll fight.

Then we're in agreement. This discussion is about the banning of rape games snowballing into harming the industry, which I don't think will be allowed to happen.

Also Smash Brother have you ever seen A Clockwork Orange? The protagonist rapes a helpless woman in front of her husband (admittedly not a child) near the beginning of the film but by the end you are led to feel some sympathy and warmth for the character. The film was rated X but was allowed to be released unedited.

And according to the Rapelay review (the game that started all the controversy), you're led to feel absolutely no sympathy for the "protagonist" whatsoever since he's basically just plain evil.

Again, the banning of rape games isn't going to hurt the industry when there are too many powerful companies who stand to lose from it.

[S-U-P-E-R]

Smash Brother to be perfectly honest I don't think Microsoft cares very much about the artistic integrity of the medium. If they stand to lose money they'll fight.

Then we're in agreement. This discussion is about the banning of rape games snowballing into harming the industry, which I don't think will be allowed to happen.

Also Smash Brother have you ever seen A Clockwork Orange? The protagonist rapes a helpless woman in front of her husband (admittedly not a child) near the beginning of the film but by the end you are led to feel some sympathy and warmth for the character. The film was rated X but was allowed to be released unedited.

And according to the Rapelay review (the game that started all the controversy), you're led to feel absolutely no sympathy for the "protagonist" whatsoever since he's basically just plain evil.

Again, the banning of rape games isn't going to hurt the industry when there are too many powerful companies who stand to lose from it.

I'm not worried about the industry being hurt. I'm looking out for me! I'm worried that as a result of restrictive blanket rules, the games we actually do play will be worse, or not make it to all the regions that they could. It would be way too easy to create a situation where a game is not ported to another platform or to another region (like Phoenix Wright, Street Fighter IV on PC or whatever, to say nothing of small-time games or companies) because of something stupid like depicting violence against women. It could be happening already! Companies could be baby-ifying their games preemptively and we wouldn't even know about it!

I'm still sore about roadkill being removed from Cruis'n USA

[Smash_Brother]

Ah, I see where you're coming from on that.

Most gamers would see Chun Li getting the crap beaten out of her as equality while a lot of nutjobs would see it as violence against women.

Honestly, the best thing would be to make zero mention of it, period. If you wrote a letter to your congressman asking him to not ban rape games, that's probably just what he'd set out to do and new legislation regarding violence against women in games would come out all over the place.

Best not to disturb the hornet's nest, I'd say.