Author Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword  (Read 611969 times)

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Online ThePerm

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #425 on: December 18, 2009, 01:52:03 AM »
wait... so you exclude LOTR and Princess Bride out of a list of movies that you think are BETTER than Harry Potter? I could see LOTR, but the Princess Bride is so awesome. Or was it because they were books first?  How would "where the Wild things" work out, because in that case there is much more content in the movie than in the book. Its not like the Harry Potter movies are in the same league as A Requiem for a Dream as far as quality goes, but i think it excels in its genre at least. Other than Fight club(which, isn't much longer then a movie script to begin with) I have never seen a movie with the same type of depth as a book, so its pointless to rate across mediums, or even genre in the same medium for that matter. Maybe its because I have seen so many terrible terrible movies, whcih were not listed.

also, i have to ask about this, because it is vague

The amount of stuff that they have to cut as well as the lack of light-heartedness that comes from Rowling's prose means that they'll never be considered even decent literature.
do you mean Rowling's work in the books generally lacks light heartedness and therfore are not decent literature, or that the movies lack the light heartedness that are in the books and because of this aren't good movies? 
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Offline mac<censored>

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #426 on: December 18, 2009, 06:00:59 AM »
do you mean Rowling's work in the books generally lacks light heartedness and therfore are not decent literature, or that the movies lack the light heartedness that are in the books and because of this aren't good movies? 

I think what he meant was that Rowling's books, though they're hardly great literature (or even good literature), have a pleasant light humor, which the movies really don't manage to reproduce.  I don't think they'd be great movies even if they did reproduce the tone, but still, because they don't, they're "less" than they might have been otherwise.

I think the movies' main achievements are very high production values, and the fact that they manage to more or less capture the appealing world-building of the books (this is obviously helped by having good production values!).  I think it's the latter which are a large part of the reason for the books' appeal as well -- people simply like the characters and locations, and the general concepts of rowling's world (and I agree with this -- she does have a lot of fun ideas, and it's fun to imagine living in her world).  Her plots are generally a bit lame (always the same -- interesting start, writes herself into a corner, deus ex machina, finis!), so it's maybe a shame the movies didn't try to take more liberties with them...


Offline Halbred

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #427 on: December 18, 2009, 05:03:04 PM »
Yeah, I've only seen the Harry Potter movies (my wife drags me along) and I really can't stand the massive influx of deus ex machina in every goddamn movie. Most egregious example:

Oh noes! The giant basilisk can turn things to stone just by looking at them! Aha! That bird, which is immune to the stone gaze, has pecked out its eyes! Awesome! But oh, noes! Harry got bitten anyway! Oh, thank the lo'd! The bird's tears cure poison! But Harry can't get out of the dungeon. OH WAIT! THE BIRD CAN LEFT LIKE A MILLION TIMES ITS OWN WEIGHT.

This is the part where my head was hurting from all the facepalms.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #428 on: December 18, 2009, 05:09:32 PM »
I personally can't follow the Harry Potter Movies. I've seen them all and not followed the story from one movie to the next. I'm really not into that series and I keep watching it because everyone around me is excited when a new one comes out. I think I'll have to watch them all in a marathon once the last one hits DVD.

Offline mantidor

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #429 on: December 18, 2009, 07:03:00 PM »
oh god it's all my fault.

Let's talk how teenager Link sucks and child Link is awesome please, thanks.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #430 on: December 18, 2009, 07:55:41 PM »
I tend to regard teenage Link more as "adult Link".  Link is barely a character anyway.  He's really fully-grown Link.  Any of the annoying personality quirks teenagers have aren't shared by Link.  It isn't like some RPG where the main character is some melodramatic 17 year old who in real life I couldn't stand to be around.

So on that note I'm a fully grown adult.  If I'm supposed to suplant myself into the role of the hero an adult avatar will work better for me than a child one will.  Of course then perhaps children can't relate.  It's not as important because for kids the idea of pretending to be an adult is cool.  Adults don't have to do their homework or clean their room.  They can do whatever they want.  Kids think adults have it made.  The opposite isn't true for adults typically find kids' stuff to be immature and stupid.

Looking at it from that perspective the teenage Link is the ideal middle ground that adults and kids can relate to.  Kids get that "when I'm grown up" fantasy while adults get that nostalgic "I wish I was young again" fantasy.  Even if you don't have fond memories of your teenage years, this is Zelda.  You're not going back to high school and having acne.  It's about having an adventure in a fantasy world.  Well while I'm at it being young and full of energy would make that fantasy all the better.

Offline Dirk Temporo

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #431 on: December 19, 2009, 12:18:15 AM »
Or was it because they were books first?
This.
Quote
How would "where the Wild things" work out, because in that case there is much more content in the movie than in the book.

There's an exception to every rule, and Where The Wild Things Are is pretty much the rule of the exception. Amazing film.

Oh noes! The giant basilisk can turn things to stone just by looking at them! Aha! That bird, which is immune to the stone gaze, has pecked out its eyes! Awesome! But oh, noes! Harry got bitten anyway! Oh, thank the lo'd! The bird's tears cure poison! But Harry can't get out of the dungeon. OH WAIT! THE BIRD CAN LEFT LIKE A MILLION TIMES ITS OWN WEIGHT.

All of these things are true of the phoenix in mythology.

And you're really complaining about deus ex machina? There's a reason there's a proper latin term for it. It's because it's a completely legitimate literary device, and to act like using it automatically degrades quality is ignorant.

Anyway, young link is better because it more effectively captures the whole childhood exploration aspect of Zelda, which is pretty much THE aspect of Zelda.
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Offline mac<censored>

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #432 on: December 19, 2009, 12:23:17 AM »
And you're really complaining about deus ex machina? There's a reason there's a proper latin term for it. It's because it's a completely legitimate literary device, and to act like using it automatically degrades quality is ignorant.

The point is, though, that as rowling uses it, it's just a cheap-ass way to tie up a plot she has no idea how to finish.  Her endings are downright awful.

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #433 on: December 19, 2009, 01:36:48 AM »
I think Mac<censored> pretty much summed my take on it,  i like the movies, but there have been time when they just...ended. Its not like i put them in the 9.9-10 range, they pretty much could be a 6 to an 8, but I have seen some terrible movies...like the type that the scifi channel produces, the Harry Potter movies  aren't that bad. None of them are Transformers 2 bad.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #434 on: December 19, 2009, 01:45:20 AM »
I think Mac<censored> pretty much summed my take on it,  i like the movies, but there have been time when they just...ended. Its not like i put them in the 9.9-10 range, they pretty much could be a 6 to an 8, but I have seen some terrible movies...like the type that the scifi channel produces, the Harry Potter movies  aren't that bad. None of them are Transformers 2 bad.

I wanted to like Transformers 2, I really did, because I loved the over the top humor/action in the first one but it was like Michael Bay went over the top and fell down the other side with 2. Too bad...
« Last Edit: December 19, 2009, 01:47:02 AM by Stratos »
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Online ThePerm

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #435 on: December 19, 2009, 01:50:23 AM »
Transformers was pretty decent, but yeah they screwed up with 2 entirely...like on every level.
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Offline mantidor

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #436 on: December 21, 2009, 02:45:36 PM »
I tend to regard teenage Link more as "adult Link".  Link is barely a character anyway.  He's really fully-grown Link.  Any of the annoying personality quirks teenagers have aren't shared by Link.  It isn't like some RPG where the main character is some melodramatic 17 year old who in real life I couldn't stand to be around.

So on that note I'm a fully grown adult.  If I'm supposed to suplant myself into the role of the hero an adult avatar will work better for me than a child one will.  Of course then perhaps children can't relate.  It's not as important because for kids the idea of pretending to be an adult is cool.  Adults don't have to do their homework or clean their room.  They can do whatever they want.  Kids think adults have it made.  The opposite isn't true for adults typically find kids' stuff to be immature and stupid.

Looking at it from that perspective the teenage Link is the ideal middle ground that adults and kids can relate to.  Kids get that "when I'm grown up" fantasy while adults get that nostalgic "I wish I was young again" fantasy.  Even if you don't have fond memories of your teenage years, this is Zelda.  You're not going back to high school and having acne.  It's about having an adventure in a fantasy world.  Well while I'm at it being young and full of energy would make that fantasy all the better.

The great thing about child Link is that any accomplishment feels bigger and more epic than with adult link, but I agree, Link is whatever age you want. The problem I see is the little romantic undertones they have tried, they were subtle and almost non existant in TP but still I felt it was too much, too corny and out of place, Nintendo has never been good with this.
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Offline Dirk Temporo

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #437 on: December 21, 2009, 03:23:03 PM »
Transformers was pretty decent, but yeah they screwed up with 2 entirely...like on every level.

I haven't seen the second, but from everything I've seen/heard of it, it was pretty much exactly like the first one. Which is to say, giant robots beating the crap out of each other.

Honestly I don't know what anybody else was looking for.
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Online ThePerm

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #438 on: December 21, 2009, 08:48:53 PM »
There was a little plotline in the first one, like it wasn't an incredable movie, but it was likable. Part 2 was nothing but action, but like stupid action...and transformers go to heaven when they die? It was totally made of WTF sauce. It was about as fucking stupid as you get. Like with every scene it got stupider,and stupider, and stupider. I got fed up. It was bad in the worst B movie sort of way, but because it had an enormous budget it wasn't funny in a B movie sort of way. If Batman and Robin was a 10/10 movie on a passable crappy movie scale, Transformers 2 would be a 0.2/10

but totaly back to Zelda. One of the best games i played in the last couple of years was Portal. It makes me wonder what new types of puzzles Nintendo could be kicking up with a new Zelda game. I'm going to go out on a limb, but im thinking the development of links magnetic boots might have played a role in the development of the gravity system in Mario Galaxy. i'm wondering what innovations could be brought to Zelda in a Mario Galaxy sort of way? Whats outside the Zelda box?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 08:53:26 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #439 on: December 21, 2009, 08:56:54 PM »
It'll be top-down 2D, cuz 2D sells more.
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Offline Halbred

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #440 on: December 21, 2009, 09:09:35 PM »
So...PH/ST in th style of Link to the Past?

I'd actually buy that.
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Offline SixthAngel

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #441 on: December 21, 2009, 10:21:19 PM »
PH/ST are 2d Zeldas just like NSMB is a 2d Mario.  They both use 3d characters and you play on a 2d plane.  The ds zelda games have the same top down look as the first.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 09:20:30 AM by SixthAngel »

Offline Peachylala

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #442 on: December 22, 2009, 04:24:53 PM »
PH/ST 3-D engine is fake 2-D, thanks to stylus controls. Almost like 3-D, but...isn't. The only spots that felt 2-D (in PH) were a couple of boss battles, but that's it.

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Offline mac<censored>

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #443 on: December 22, 2009, 08:35:34 PM »
I dunno, the 3d engine seems real enough, but the level design and controls are 2d...

[This split very common on the DS, e.g. basically all recent AA JRPGS do the same thing -- DQ IX, 光の4戦士, Zelda, etc -- which suggests the DS hardware must make it pretty easy...]

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #444 on: December 22, 2009, 09:05:40 PM »
EDGE Online Interview with Eiji Aonuma: Regrets for Twilight Princess

Quote
Series director Eiji Aonuma says “sheer grand scale" is the starting point for developing the next Zelda.

Edge 211 features Links To The Past, an in-depth interview with series director Eiji Aonuma about his memories of working on gaming’s greatest franchise. But there are a few nods to the future, as well. We asked Aonuma about the ‘epic’ feel of Twilight Princess and its subsequent reception, to which he said:

“For Twilight Princess we used the adult Link and one of the interesting things about that was how we considered the precise proportions of Link and the world. The scale is because we aimed for a more realistic quality in the size of the environments of Hyrule and what that Link faced.

"But the question is whether or not we were able to incorporate any and all of the interesting game ideas that were able to take advantage of that kind of sheer grand scale within the Zelda universe. I am afraid that definitely no, we were not able to do all the things that perhaps with hindsight we had the capabilities to do. With that as the starting point, we are now developing the Wii version of Legend Of Zelda.”


Aonuma went on to admit that the discrepancy between imagination and representation was his greatest regret about the previous Wii game:

“In the case of Spirit Tracks it was relatively easier, because regardless of the actual proportions between the player character and the other objects, we can simply concentrate upon the many game ideas we want to realise. But in the case of trying to depict a relatively photorealistic three-dimensional world, we have to be very careful to adapt the ideas so that they seem to perfectly fit with that world. I must admit that's actually one of my very greatest regrets as regards the Twilight Princess.”
« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 11:20:41 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline Halbred

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #445 on: December 22, 2009, 09:52:34 PM »
I regret Twilight Princess, too.
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Offline Caterkiller

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #446 on: December 22, 2009, 11:03:26 PM »
I do understand, but can someone dumb that down  for me just a bit?

So sheer grand scale but with lots of happenings within that grand scale I assume? Also they are not going to worry how everything is super realistic scale wise and how it fits into the Zelda world? Is he saying they are just doing any zany thing they want?
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #447 on: December 22, 2009, 11:24:07 PM »
They were so focused on making everything in the game fit the realistic scale that there were many idea that didn't get incorporated. I assume some things weren't included because they were too cartoony or unrealistic, or they just spent so much time tweaking the realism scale that they ran out of time to include alot of the ideas that they just never got around to realizing.

that's my translation of it.

In hindsight, I think they realized that they were producing the game for GameCube and that the Wii was capable of producing more than what they delivered. So much time was spent re-tooling the game for the Wii version that the game overall suffered and was not everything that it should have been.
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Offline King of Twitch

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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #448 on: December 23, 2009, 02:15:39 AM »
How on earth did the death spinner pass their realism test?
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Re: New Wii Zelda
« Reply #449 on: December 23, 2009, 05:00:38 AM »
i'm all for any zany thing they want, why can't wind waker style and realistic style just co-exist :P
Tingle Cell Shaded, while link is realisitc :P

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« Last Edit: December 23, 2009, 06:20:33 PM by ThePerm »
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