Topic: WiiWare Games Required to Hit Sales Threshold

[NWR_pap64]

In order for developers to see profit, a sales threshold must first be surpassed.
 http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=18287

 In the last few days the topic of a WiiWare sales threshold has been debated among game industry analysts and fans alike. The http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=22974">various industry reports say that before independent developers can see any profit on WiiWare they must first surpass a sales threshold. Developers do not see a profit from sales until that threshold has been surpassed. If the game doesn't pass it, the developers will not receive any payment until it's eventually accomplished.    

The sales threshold is different in each region according to various sources. In America, the threshold is believed to be around the mid thousands while in Europe it's in the lower thousands.    

Multiple developers have contacted news sources and confirmed this to be true, with some developers believing that they will never see any profit due to poor sales of their WiiWare efforts.    

Nintendo's intentions for the threshold haven't been made clear, but it is believed that this is a quality control method that prevents developers from releasing poor quality titles, or "shovelware," on the service.    

Days after the news surfaced, http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=23275">more details on the threshold were revealed. Apparently the size of WiiWare titles also play a part in surpassing the sales threshold, once again varying from region to region. According to Kotaku, North American titles over 16 MB must sell over 6,000 units in order to be profitable to its developers, while titles under the 16 MB limited must only sell 4,000 units.    

In Europe the limit is far lower. Titles over the 16 MB limit must sell 3,000 units while titles under the 16 MB limit only need 2,000 units to be profitable.    

Kotaku also claims that developers have two years to meet the threshold. Once this has been surpassed, the profit royalty is of 65/35 in favor of the developer.    

Industry news website Gamasutra was contacted by various WiiWare developers who claim that this is not an issue whatsoever as they have easily surpassed the threshold. The new storage solution has also helped developers in obtaining this requirement as sales of existing titles such as Telltale Games' Strong Bad Game have doubled since the solution was made a reality at the Game Developer's Conference.

[Enner]

I thought it was a bit harsh at first, but given how many Wiis there are out there it shouldn't be crazy difficult to reach those thresholds. Given how internet savvy-ness is increasing by the year, there ought to be enough potential customers that know about the download store and make purchases from it.

Then again, I may be wrong. Who here knows people with Wii who browse and purchase from WiiWare?

[TJ Spyke]

I know one other person with a Wii (most people I know are moochers who are too cheap to buy their own systems), and I don't know if he buys any WiiWare games. I own 2, I bought Defend Your Castle (which I love) and was gifted World of Goo (which is OK, but not the best WiiWare game like many claim it is).

Developers are worried? If there game can't sell 6,000 copies in North America then that is pretty bad, especially since they will retroactively get that money if the game reaches that amount (so if your game doesn't reach that amount in like 4 years, then too bad). I still think that developers should get their cut even if the game sells like 5 copies.

[broodwars]

This is almost as silly as that $.16 per download fee Sony charges developers for each download on the PlayStation Network.  Considering how much crap is on WiiWare, it's easy to see good games getting buried and not reaching that threshold (of course, if that does happen on a good game I find the company's marketing pathetic).  I don't care how much a game sells: developers should recoup whatever their games make on WiiWare after Nintendo takes their cut. From my perspective this threshold hasn't done much to deter bad WiiWare titles so far, so I don't see much harm in dropping it.

[TJ Spyke]

Except for launch, there has never been a avalanche of WiiWare games coming out. The average is 1 WiiWare game per week. That new game gets hyped in the press release (and e-mail Nintendo sends out to subscribers) and featured prominently for awhile. I think sales may have increased with Wii Menu System 4.0, remember Telltale Games proudly stating the sales of the Strong Bad games doubled after it?

[broodwars]

Except for launch, there has never been a avalanche of WiiWare games coming out. The average is 1 WiiWare game per week. That new game gets hyped in the press release (and e-mail Nintendo sends out to subscribers) and featured prominently for awhile. I think sales may have increased with Wii Menu System 4.0, remember Telltale Games proudly stating the sales of the Strong Bad games doubled after it?

Yeah, it's great to see stuff like Strong Bad selling very well now that Nintendo lifted their arbitrary storage restriction, but that still doesn't make the sales threshold acceptable.  Once developers have paid Nintendo for the right to use the WiiWare service, Nintendo's role in the process should be over.  They should not be dictating to developers how many sales they have to get before they are "allowed" to start taking in returns on their work.  This just reeks of the sort of Iron-Fisted B.S. Nintendo pulled in the NES days.

[NWR_insanolord]

Except for launch, there has never been a avalanche of WiiWare games coming out. The average is 1 WiiWare game per week. That new game gets hyped in the press release (and e-mail Nintendo sends out to subscribers) and featured prominently for awhile. I think sales may have increased with Wii Menu System 4.0, remember Telltale Games proudly stating the sales of the Strong Bad games doubled after it?

Yeah, it's great to see stuff like Strong Bad selling very well now that Nintendo lifted their arbitrary storage restriction, but that still doesn't make the sales threshold acceptable.  Once developers have paid Nintendo for the right to use the WiiWare service, Nintendo's role in the process should be over.  They should not be dictating to developers how many sales they have to get before they are "allowed" to start taking in returns on their work.  This just reeks of the sort of Iron-Fisted B.S. Nintendo pulled in the NES days.

Comparing this to Nintendo's NES restrictions is ridiculous. People complain up and down about Nintendo doing nothing to stop the shovelware on the Wii and then when they introduce a policy to combat it on WiiWare it's "Iron-Fisted B.S."

[NWR_pap64]

What I find funny is that fans are actually more offended than the developers who actually know their stuff. Really, if the developers have no issue with this why should fans care?

[broodwars]

Except for launch, there has never been a avalanche of WiiWare games coming out. The average is 1 WiiWare game per week. That new game gets hyped in the press release (and e-mail Nintendo sends out to subscribers) and featured prominently for awhile. I think sales may have increased with Wii Menu System 4.0, remember Telltale Games proudly stating the sales of the Strong Bad games doubled after it?

Yeah, it's great to see stuff like Strong Bad selling very well now that Nintendo lifted their arbitrary storage restriction, but that still doesn't make the sales threshold acceptable.  Once developers have paid Nintendo for the right to use the WiiWare service, Nintendo's role in the process should be over.  They should not be dictating to developers how many sales they have to get before they are "allowed" to start taking in returns on their work.  This just reeks of the sort of Iron-Fisted B.S. Nintendo pulled in the NES days.

Comparing this to Nintendo's NES restrictions is ridiculous. People complain up and down about Nintendo doing nothing to stop the shovelware on the Wii and then when they introduce a policy to combat it on WiiWare it's "Iron-Fisted B.S."

If it were Iron-Fisted and actually WORKED at preventing crap on the service, I wouldn't have as much problem with this.  The problem is, it hasn't.  So yeah, I have a problem with it.

[BranDonk Kong]

I didn't realize the threshold was 6,000 sales...doesn't seem like that big of a deal. It's simple - if you want to make money, make good (or at least decent) games. Sure small indy developers may not have the resources to make hype-worthy games, but they should do some testing with a PC version of said games before making the WiiWare jump.

[broodwars]

I didn't realize the threshold was 6,000 sales...doesn't seem like that big of a deal. It's simple - if you want to make money, make good (or at least decent) games. Sure small indy developers may not have the resources to make hype-worthy games, but they should do some testing with a PC version of said games before making the WiiWare jump.

Let me put this in a similar context: let's say Nintendo suddenly announced one day that unless a developer's products sold at least 100,000 copies in a given region that they would not receive a penny for their effort (in an effort to reduce Wii shovelware naturally).  Nintendo alone would reap any benefits and the service still got shovelware.  Would you then have a problem with this, because it's not that far a slide down that slippery slope?

[Stratos]

Well, the size variation adds a new dynamic to the matter, but I still have an issue with it. I'm just not comfortable with it.

Though I just remembered that stock photography places like iStock will only send members a check with their commission cash once they earn a total of $100. They will not cut a check for less though that is in part to keep people from constantly requesting $50, $30 or even $10 checks all the time. I think it may also ensure that they are getting submitters who will stick with it long enough to earn said amount. My roommate submits a lot of photos and gets a few $100 a year right now. The guy that introduced it to him makes around $1200 a month doing it.

[KDR_11k]

The threshold won't prevent the first release of shovelware but it may prevent a publisher from trying again if their shovelware fails to sell past the threshold. Then again I don't think it's possible to make any profit off below-threshold sales anyway if you consider dev costs, the costs for getting the game rated, etc. Also some people will automatically decry anything that doesn't appeal to them personally shovelware yet here are many people who want those games (e.g. Texas Hold'Em Tournament, it's not done very well but people want a poker game on WiiWare and thus bought it because it does what they want and noone offered a better implementation of it).

This is almost as silly as that $.16 per download fee Sony charges developers for each download on the PlayStation Network.

Per gigabyte actually. Sony doesn't get bandwidth for free, why should the ones who upload content to the PSN get it?

[broodwars]

This is almost as silly as that $.16 per download fee Sony charges developers for each download on the PlayStation Network.

Per gigabyte actually. Sony doesn't get bandwidth for free, why should the ones who upload content to the PSN get it?

Ah, ok.  It had been reported on other sites as being a $.16 per download fee, but per Gigabyte is fairly reasonable for that reason.

[TJ Spyke]

Though I just remembered that stock photography places like iStock will only send members a check with their commission cash once they earn a total of $100. They will not cut a check for less though that is in part to keep people from constantly requesting $50, $30 or even $10 checks all the time. I think it may also ensure that they are getting submitters who will stick with it long enough to earn said amount. My roommate submits a lot of photos and gets a few $100 a year right now. The guy that introduced it to him makes around $1200 a month doing it.

Same thing with services like Amazon Partners. You don't get any money until you cross the threshold they have.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Like others have said most Wii Ware Developers are HAPPY with the threshold, so there is no reason for us to care. Good games are crossing the threshold along with some bad ones. No service is perfect, just look at Xbox LIve Arcade, you are always going to get lower quality titles, especially on one where developers are still trying to figure it out.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

There's no preventing shovelware.  Why is this even a discussion.

If it sells, it certainly ain't shovelware to the seller.  No stopping it.

Enter the Matrix.