Topic: Radio Free Nintendo: Episode 140

[Jonnyboy117]

It's time to kick off RetroActive: Secret of Mana!  We've been playing lots of other games too, and James has a new rant.
 http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/podcastArt.cfm?artid=18116

 



 Episode 140: You Got a Podcast Orb    

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Before we start RetroActive, there are a number of items to address in New Business.  We've been playing Super Punch-Out, Ganbare Goemon 2, and a lot more Henry Hatsworth.  James is reviewing Six Flags Fun Park, but incredibly, that poor game is not the primary target of his anger -- he reserves the deepest hatred for a special rant against the box art for Boom Blox Bash Party.  In happier developments, Greg notes that Majora's Mask is headed to Virtual Console around the world, which leads us into a brief but blissful conversation about that classic Zelda game.    

Secret of Mana is a legendary but flawed game, which makes it all the more appropriate for a RetroActive feature.  We discuss the pros and cons of the game, from its memorable soundtrack to the (unfortunately) memorable A.I. characters.  Is this an RPG or adventure game, or something else entirely?  The ambiguity is both fascinating and frustrating for the RFN crew and the listeners too.  If you've just started playing Secret of Mana or want to leave your feedback on the game, please do so in the RetroActive forum thread!    

Wrapping up the episode is this week's mailbag, which includes actual fan mail, console standards (progressive scan, anyone?), licensed arcade games, and how the SD Card Menu is going to break your Wii.    

Credits:    

This podcast was edited by Greg Leahy.    

Music for this episode of Radio Free Nintendo is used with permission from Jason Ricci & New Blood. You can purchase their new album, Rocket Number 9, directly from the record label, or download it from iTunes, or call your local record store and ask for it!  

[AV]

Right after the show was over I went to iTunes and Rated it 5 stars and wrote a quick positive review guys.

I never played Secret of Mana and I was curious about it so this really helped me. I am not buying this game from what you guys talked about. I am into RPG's but this just seems like something you either hate or love, and it doesn't seem like something I will enjoy.

Oh yeah you guys haven't done Virtual Console and Wiiware section in a while. I don't mind news being a rare segment since big news is rare, but I love to hear your thoughts on Virtual Console and Wiiware every week. You sort of talked about it this week, but I like its own section. Now that DSi has downloads too I want to hear your impressions of that. I don't have DSi but I am still curious if the the stuff is any good.

[yoshi1001]

One thing I have heard about flash memory is that the computers that use it as a primary storage device use an algorithm to minimize the number of writes to each portion of the memory.

Glad to hear you're doing a Super Metroid special. I actually won my copy off of Nintendo back when they were on AOL, and somewhat interestingly I used that copy for a video VC review I did in 2007.

[Jonnyboy117]

Adolph, thanks for the review.  We stopped doing VC Mondays because it was outdated, boring, and not very informative.  Many weeks, none of us had downloaded any of the new games, so we didn't have much to say about them.  I think it's better if we use New Business to talk about any new DLC that we may have purchased.

[broodwars]

I tried to like Secret of Mana when I downloaded it several months back (I never got a chance to play it on the SNES), but honestly I thought the game was pretty...boring, and it all comes down to the lame "charge...hit...run away...charge...hit...run away" combat.  I admire the novelty of having multiplayer in the game, but unfortunately I could never convince my best friend to actually play it with me because the combat didn't look fun to him either.  Still, it's great to have such an important game on the VC.  I just wish we started getting the more interesting Action RPGs like Illusion of Gaia and Terranigma.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I tried to like Secret of Mana when I downloaded it several months back (I never got a chance to play it on the SNES), but honestly I thought the game was pretty...boring, and it all comes down to the lame "charge...hit...run away...charge...hit...run away" combat.  I admire the novelty of having multiplayer in the game, but unfortunately I could never convince my best friend to actually play it with me because the combat didn't look fun to him either.  Still, it's great to have such an important game on the VC.  I just wish we started getting the more interesting Action RPGs like Illusion of Gaia and Terranigma.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with Mr. Broodwars in regards to Secret of Mana! SHOCKING.

[Plugabugz]

I'm only part of the way through it, but Greg's editing RULES.

[- NintendoFan -]

One thing I have heard about flash memory is that the computers that use it as a primary storage device use an algorithm to minimize the number of writes to each portion of the memory.

Yes, it is called wear-leveling. I do worry a bit about what type of memory Nintendo has put in there, because it is highly likely they did cheap out. Chances are it is MLC and not SLC. MLC allows for 10,000 writes, whereas SLC is 100,000. MLC is not really a problem if there is a good wear-leveling controller used. Also, there are no worry about the amount of times it can be read, flash memory should always have the ability to be read even after the write limit.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Nintendo cheaping out? There are many complaints that can be leveraged against Nintendo but they don't cheap out in regards to the quality of the materials used to build their systems which is why they've always been so extremely reliable. So I wouldn't assume they used cheaper flash memory unless SLC wasn't that common back then.

Also I have one thing to say about Wormhead. YOU ARE WRONG AND SHOULD NEVER BE ON THE PODCAST AGAIN!

[TJ Spyke]

I really have to disagee with the opinion a few of you have that Majora's Mask is a better game than Ocarina of Time. Majora's Mask is the only Zelda game I hate. I think there is a reason it is the worst selling 3D Zelda game (and coming out so late in the N64's lifespan is not it).

I think the whole time travel thing was a horrible idea and that it was what ruined the game for me, I am glad they abandoned the concept after that.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I really have to disagee with the opinion a few of you have that Majora's Mask is a better game than Ocarina of Time. Majora's Mask is the only Zelda game I hate. I think there is a reason it is the worst selling 3D Zelda game (and coming out so late in the N64's lifespan is not it).

While I don't hate it, I don't love it either. It was too different and I didn't enjoy the world very much, it was too small.

[TJ Spyke]

The actual gameplay of Majora's Mask wasn't that bad, I just hated the time thing. Like you said, it felt really small and it was probably because of the time issue.

[GoldenPhoenix]

The actual gameplay of Majora's Mask wasn't that bad, I just hated the time thing. Like you said, it felt really small and it was probably because of the time issue.

I think the game was designed to do the best they could in a small development time frame. The 3 day time limit was more of a necessity then an option when designing it. For what they did in such a short amount of time was impressive and I can't take that away from them even if it isn't one of my favorites.

[- NintendoFan -]

Nintendo cheaping out? There are many complaints that can be leveraged against Nintendo but they don't cheap out in regards to the quality of the materials used to build their systems which is why they've always been so extremely reliable. So I wouldn't assume they used cheaper flash memory unless SLC wasn't that common back then.

Also I have one thing to say about Wormhead. YOU ARE WRONG AND SHOULD NEVER BE ON THE PODCAST AGAIN!

No need to get crazy. I mean, Nintendo has cut corners in the past, it wouldn't be unusual if they went with MLC rather than SLC. Although, I believe at the time, SLC was more common, so it may be in the system. Though I really don't know.

Anyway, time was never a problem for me in Majora's Mask. I never really felt constrained. Though I can see how some people could feel that way. I think they played it perfectly because in a sense there IS urgency, I mean the MOON IS FALLING. So I feel it helps you stay grounded in this world that could come to the end very soon.

[broodwars]

I don't understand the complaints about the time aspect being too restricting, myself.  All you have to do is play the reverse Song of Time, and you have all the time you pretty much need for anything important.  And if you don't want to hang around till the 2nd or 3rd day when you need to be around to do something, just play the accelerated version of the same song to skip ahead.  I don't understand the problem here.  In any case, Majora's Mask is my favorite Zelda game, because it among all the Zelda games best captures the Emotion of the world.  Through observing and interfering in the lives of the Termina townsfolk, you actually develop a real connection to what would otherwise be standard NPCs.  I actually cared about what I was doing and who I was affecting in Majora's Mask, a feat that Nintendo has yet to repeat in any other Zelda game since.  It's like you're a Hylian Sam Beckett with the fairy as your Al.

[GoldenPhoenix]

No need to get crazy. I mean, Nintendo has cut corners in the past, it wouldn't be unusual if they went with MLC rather than SLC. Although, I believe at the time, SLC was more common, so it may be in the system. Though I really don't know.

Do you have any examples of this cutting corners when it comes to hardware design and the parts used? Nintendo from my experience IS the most reliable when it comes to putting together durable and long lasting hardware. Now perhaps the parts aren't cutting edge from a polygon pushing aspect, but the quality of the parts used is some of the best in the industry. It is odd no one knows what kind of flash memory they used.

[- NintendoFan -]

No need to get crazy. I mean, Nintendo has cut corners in the past, it wouldn't be unusual if they went with MLC rather than SLC. Although, I believe at the time, SLC was more common, so it may be in the system. Though I really don't know.

Do you have any examples of this cutting corners when it comes to hardware design and the parts used? Nintendo from my experience IS the most reliable when it comes to putting together durable and long lasting hardware. Now perhaps the parts aren't cutting edge from a polygon pushing aspect, but the quality of the parts used is some of the best in the industry. It is odd no one knows what kind of flash memory they used.

I think by me using "cheap" you are misconstruing it as "unreliable". When that is not necessarily what I mean nor is it necessarily true. Hardware design wise is primarily what I was referring to. Although if I recall correctly some of the LCDs on the GBA/SP or the DS were of a "lesser" quality at one point.   

[Mop it up]

I don't understand the complaints about the time aspect being too restricting, myself.

The problem for me is that you can't save the game anywhere, any time. It can take up to two straight hours to complete a dungeon, and you have to complete it all in one run because everything resets when you go back in time. It gets tedious because you end up doing the same things over and over each three-day period.

Do you have any examples of this cutting corners when it comes to hardware design and the parts used?

The Nintendo 64 analogue stick. It wears out through normal use, and Nintendo never improved the design or offered replacements. If they had used aluminum parts instead of plastic, this problem wouldn't exist.

[Stratos]

I don't understand the complaints about the time aspect being too restricting, myself.

The problem for me is that you can't save the game anywhere, any time. It can take up to two straight hours to complete a dungeon, and you have to complete it all in one run because everything resets when you go back in time. It gets tedious because you end up doing the same things over and over each three-day period.

Do you have any examples of this cutting corners when it comes to hardware design and the parts used?

The Nintendo 64 analogue stick. It wears out through normal use, and Nintendo never improved the design or offered replacements. If they had used aluminum parts instead of plastic, this problem wouldn't exist.

My controllers never broke on the N64 and I had a lot of Goldeneye, Mario Kart, Perfect Dark and Smash Brothers parties. They were constantly used and still work fine. The only ones that broke were a cheap Mad Catz controller, one my sister chewed on when she was a toddler and another my friend spilled soda on. My other four I got never have failed me and I even still use then to this day. Maybe my friends just weren't as aggressive with them considering I threatened to ban them from touching my system if they threw and abused my controllers.

And on Majora's Mask, just start the dungeon on the first day. If I opened the path to the dungeon I would save it for the next time reset and go do other things until then like all the side quests and collect heart pieces. I think once I went in a dungeon and got far enough to get the new item and left to explore with it the next two days.

[Crimm]

The actual gameplay of Majora's Mask wasn't that bad, I just hated the time thing. Like you said, it felt really small and it was probably because of the time issue.

I think the game was designed to do the best they could in a small development time frame. The 3 day time limit was more of a necessity then an option when designing it. For what they did in such a short amount of time was impressive and I can't take that away from them even if it isn't one of my favorites.

Majora's Mask was designed to be completed one year after the release of OoT.  Also, Majora's Mask DID sell less because of the time it came out.  It came out the same day as the PS2.  At that point the N64 was on life support.  It got stirling reviews, and had a lot of positive press.

[Mop it up]

My controllers never broke on the N64 and I had a lot of Goldeneye, Mario Kart, Perfect Dark and Smash Brothers parties. They were constantly used and still work fine.

I don't have problems with mine either, especially ever since I started applying ceramic grease to them to ensure that they never wear out. Though I'd be willing to bet that even though your analogue sticks still function fine, they are a little loose and not as tight or responsive as when they were new.

The fact of the matter is, for many people the analogue sticks did wear out, proof that they were not made with the best quality material. Not only that, it became a known problem within the first two years, if not sooner. Therefore, Nintendo at least should have redesigned the controller's analogue stick to one similar to the GameCube controller. And yes, it would have been possible as there's a controller called the Hori Pad Mini which has such an analuge stick.

[- NintendoFan -]

I don't have problems with mine either, especially ever since I started applying ceramic grease to them to ensure that they never wear out. Though I'd be willing to bet that even though your analogue sticks still function fine, they are a little loose and not as tight or responsive as when they were new.

That was certainly the case. I remember Mario Party being the worst in that regard and I believe Paper Mario had some of those aspects too. I used to dread playing some games in fear of the number it would do on the joystick.

[Stratos]

I don't have problems with mine either, especially ever since I started applying ceramic grease to them to ensure that they never wear out. Though I'd be willing to bet that even though your analogue sticks still function fine, they are a little loose and not as tight or responsive as when they were new.

That was certainly the case. I remember Mario Party being the worst in that regard and I believe Paper Mario had some of those aspects too. I used to dread playing some games in fear of the number it would do on the joystick.

I had sores on the palms of my hands from the controller turning games. I remember Nintendo had to issue warnings telling people to not do it that way but I never stopped doing it that way because it was fastest.

[Jonnyboy117]

Maybe Majora's Mask sold less than Ocarina of Time because it required the Expansion Pak, which was not included with the game (as it was with DK64).

[Stratos]

Majora still sold several million copies world wide. Close to 3.5 million if I recall correctly. That's still a good turn out.