Topic: What 3rd party games should make their way to the Wii?

[BlackNMild2k1]

I'm just gonna quote my post from the Sales Thread

going by the numbers above...

With only one exception, multiplatform games on the list that had versions on all current-gen systems sold better on Wii than on PS3.

The only exception is Rock Band 2, which was released two months after the PS3 version and was still within 30k.
Rock Band 2 - 1.02M (360) 384k (PS3) 353k (Wii)

In 7 out of 10 instances on the list, the Wii version outsold the 360 version as well.

In 6 of those instances, the Wii version sold more than (or was tied with) the 360 and PS3 versions COMBINED.

Guitar Hero 3 - 2.37M (360) 830k (PS3) 2.75M (Wii)
Guitar Hero: World Tour - 924k (360) 466k (PS3) 1.39M (Wii)
Lego Indiana Jones - 241k (360), 142k (PS3), 456k (Wii)
Shaun White - 271k (360), 141k (PS3), 537k (Wii)
Sonic Unleashed - 113k (360), 69k (PS3), 315k (Wii)
Tiger Woods 09 - 216k (360), 174k (PS3), 565k (Wii)

Compared to the PS3, the Wii sold better
Star Wars Force Unleashed - 823k (360) 464k (PS3) 626k (Wii) 175k (DS) 263k (PSP) 352k (PS2)
Rock Band 1 - 1.65M (360) 648k (PS3) 1.03M (Wii)

So my question is, why do so many 3rd parties continue to ignore the Wii?
Imagine if RE5 had been released on all 3 platforms... do they think that over all sales might have been less? Would they have been embarrassed when the Wii version outsells one or both of the HD versions? ...combined?

So many 3rd parties out there are having a hard time getting the red ink off of their P&L statements and there is soo much money out there to be made. Money from a userbase that they continue to ignore (until recently) that is larger(WW) than the HD consoles combined.

I'm not saying that every game needs a Wii version, but if you're gonna go multi-plat then you might as well invest the necessary capital(half-ass efforts need not apply) to put it on all viable consoles and maximize your potential payback. You might find your audience somewhere that you probably didn't expect. ...somewhere in that 52% of console owners that aren't PS3 or X360.

Wtih that being said, I mostly agree with Ian and think all 3rd parties putting in a serious effort should have a Wii version releasing simultaneously that is made in the form of the HD version only from the ground up for the Wii.

But now that the obvious is out of the way, this thread is about what specific 3rd party games/franchises do you think should come to Wii and why. We would love for them all to come, but that would require a bunch of spoiled publishers/developers to swallow their pride and admit that they zigged when they should have wagged.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I'm not sure why this next game never made it to the Gamecube, but i think a Wiimake would be perfect.
 
Psychonauts by Double Fine.

I never played the game, but heard it was really good. I don't think there has been a major presence of good platformers on the system, so I think Psychonaut might actually find the audience that overlooked it last time. I know that didn't work out to well with Okami, but I don't exactly remember that game being advertised either.

[Ian Sane]

For that matter, third parties could also have their games depend on the classic controller. It does exist and they can make use of it, but for some reason there's this hangup that they absolutely HAVE to have wiggle-waggle control on the Wii.

I think Nintendo themselves have to set the example in this case.  They didn't include the classic controller with the console itself.  So it's not seen as a standard but more like a niche accessory.  Nintendo needs to start packaging the classic controller with the Wii itself and make a game that specifically requires it and comes packed with it as well.  They've made games like Mario Kart and SSB that support it but they've never made a game that requires it.  They do that and suddenly the classic controller is a perfectly valid option for all developers.  But would they bother since they make money hand over fist anyway?

The DS thankfully always had the traditional controls right there attached to every system.  So third parties just had to realize "hey this forced touchscreen usage sucks" and start using the d-pad and buttons.  But with the Wii even if they realize waggle sucks they're stuck thinking "well if we design it specifically for the classic controller do enough people own that to make it worthwhile?"  Right now they're in a situation where the remote/nunchuk combo has to be supported in someway and that's going to mean some waggle.

[KDR_11k]

I think it's justified, default CC would make lazy devs just use that thing instead of the Wiimote even in games where the Wiimote would be an improvement simply because it makes porting easier. It'd end with a library where half the games use the CC, justified or not. Hell, some idiot dev made an air hockey game for WiiWare that uses the freaking d-pad, imagine how much worse it would be if they could expect the CC to be present. At least with the Wiimote they have to think about their control setup and maybe even find ways to get something more interesting than just the boring old CC controls. Yes, inflexible devs will do stupid things with it by trying to keep all their buttons but instead mapping them to Wiimote gestures but those are idiots anyway. Most games have overcomplicated designs with tons of actions that could be cut with nearly zero impact on the gameplay and the Wiimote may just be the push they need to rethink their design.

[TJ Spyke]

I think Nintendo themselves have to set the example in this case.  They didn't include the classic controller with the console itself. 

I don't think that will happen, Nintendo designed the Classic Controller mainly for Virtual Console games and I think they want to keep it that way.

[Stratos]

I think Nintendo themselves have to set the example in this case.  They didn't include the classic controller with the console itself.

I don't think that will happen, Nintendo designed the Classic Controller mainly for Virtual Console games and I think they want to keep it that way.

They could package the Wii with a CC and 1000 Nintendo Points to help get new players online and trying WW and VC games.

[Ian Sane]

At least with the Wiimote they have to think about their control setup and maybe even find ways to get something more interesting than just the boring old CC controls.

I don't see how the old controls are "boring".  All I give a damn about is if the game plays well and if that requires a traditional controller or a flight stick or a mouse and keyboard or a wheel or a light gun or a Wii-mote so be it.  I want what's best for the game and what gives me the player the most responsive and intuitive controls.  So the remote for Wii Sports is perfect but when I have to shake the controller to do a simple on/off command that a digital button could do it makes the game more of a chore to play.  The controller isn't a toy, it's a tool.  Part of the problem is many Wii devs focus too much on the novelty of the remote and that's why we get waggle.

Despite what Nintendo tells us the "standard controller" has been the standard for over 20 years for a reason: it fucking works.  If third parties just try to make the best game they can we'll get better games.  If Nintendo is so damn confident in their "new standard" then they shouldn't have to worry about not enough games using it.

[KDR_11k]

They are worried about developer lazyness, not the quality of their Wiimote. If they weren't confident in the thing they would have packaged the CC so if the 'mote fails the CC can pick up the slack. They didn't, they chose to keep it as Wiimote + Nunchuk. I guarantee you that if CC-only control was viable lazy developers would actually push out FPS ports with dual analog controls.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Right you are, Cmdr. Duck.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I found a 3rd party game I would love to see hit the Wii

Prototype

The control improvements would be obvious once you watch the trailer.
But Radical gives you 10 other reasons why you would want this game.

[Chozo Ghost]

Why exactly doesn't the wii-mote/nunchuck make a good traditional remote? The Wii-mote and chuck together have a good number of buttons, and there is also a D-Pad and an analog stick. What is it lacking that a PS3 or 360 isn't? If motion control is such a bad idea for some games, then why don't third parties simply not make use of it in those games? Instead of requiring a CC for traditional controls, why not just squeeze traditional control methods out of the mote/chuck?

[BlackNMild2k1]

ABXY/Triangle square circle x/whatever the xbox has could all be replaced by up down left right on the d-pad
and then you still have the two shoulder buttons on the nunchuck and A & B on the wiimote to replace the other shoulder buttons.

seems like plenty of alternative buttons in a perfectly reachable place without the use of motion controls

[Adrock]

There should be no classic controller. There should be one controller capable of doing everything reasonable well. If you can't imagine such a thing, keep in mind that Nintendo spends millions designing controllers. They'd figure it out. See, I'd be more forgiving if the DS didn't prove that a balance can be met. Developers still design games around the touchscreen and these aren't isolated cases.

They are worried about developer lazyness, not the quality of their Wiimote. If they weren't confident in the thing they would have packaged the CC so if the 'mote fails the CC can pick up the slack. They didn't, they chose to keep it as Wiimote + Nunchuk.

Sure, that's the reason. It has nothing to do with the fact that Nintendo charges $20 for something they could have designed into the Wii remote/nunchuck combo in the first place. Nintendo is add-on crazy and 3rd parties are being lazy anyway.

I see the Wii remote/nunchuck combo as a work in progress. There's definitely room for improvement and obviously Nintendo thinks so if they're releasing Motion Plus. Every defense of the Wii remote's design is easily torn down by Nintendo themselves. For example, if more buttons causes confusion, why are there so many buttons on the DS? And yet, it works. No one is complaining that there are too many buttons on the DS. Even then, I'm not necessarily advocating adding more buttons. If I were to redesign the Wii remote, the first thing I'd do is get rid of the D-Pad and make the A button into 4 buttons (which almost mirrors a D-pad anyway). Technically, that's one less button, but it'd make a world of difference. I hate when actions are mapped to the D-pad. It's not comfortable in my opinion.

[Stratos]

What if instead of having a 'nunchuck' you had a second WiiMote? Dual IR sensing and more buttons? Just a thought.

[NWR_insanolord]

The D-Pad needs to be there for games that use the NES style controls.

[KDR_11k]

Why exactly doesn't the wii-mote/nunchuck make a good traditional remote? The Wii-mote and chuck together have a good number of buttons, and there is also a D-Pad and an analog stick. What is it lacking that a PS3 or 360 isn't? If motion control is such a bad idea for some games, then why don't third parties simply not make use of it in those games? Instead of requiring a CC for traditional controls, why not just squeeze traditional control methods out of the mote/chuck?

There are 12 buttons, 2 analog sticks and 1 dpad on a DualShock controller and the overcomplicated games use every single one of them.

There should be no classic controller. There should be one controller capable of doing everything reasonable well. If you can't imagine such a thing, keep in mind that Nintendo spends millions designing controllers. They'd figure it out. See, I'd be more forgiving if the DS didn't prove that a balance can be met. Developers still design games around the touchscreen and these aren't isolated cases.

They are worried about developer lazyness, not the quality of their Wiimote. If they weren't confident in the thing they would have packaged the CC so if the 'mote fails the CC can pick up the slack. They didn't, they chose to keep it as Wiimote + Nunchuk.

Sure, that's the reason. It has nothing to do with the fact that Nintendo charges $20 for something they could have designed into the Wii remote/nunchuck combo in the first place. Nintendo is add-on crazy and 3rd parties are being lazy anyway.

I see the Wii remote/nunchuck combo as a work in progress. There's definitely room for improvement and obviously Nintendo thinks so if they're releasing Motion Plus. Every defense of the Wii remote's design is easily torn down by Nintendo themselves. For example, if more buttons causes confusion, why are there so many buttons on the DS? And yet, it works. No one is complaining that there are too many buttons on the DS. Even then, I'm not necessarily advocating adding more buttons. If I were to redesign the Wii remote, the first thing I'd do is get rid of the D-Pad and make the A button into 4 buttons (which almost mirrors a D-pad anyway). Technically, that's one less button, but it'd make a world of difference. I hate when actions are mapped to the D-pad. It's not comfortable in my opinion.

The DS simply doesn't use ANY buttons in the games aimed at the new market. That way there's no confusion which button clicks, none of them do. You use the stylus. Your four buttons on the top of the Wiimote would instantly create confusion about which one does the clicking.

[Chozo Ghost]

The D-Pad needs to be there for games that use the NES style controls.

That's what the classic controller is for. I agree the D-pad is awkward to use when you are holding the Wii-mote in one hand. The same kinda goes for the 1 and 2 and + and - buttons as well. These CAN be used as action buttons in a game, but they really suck for that purpose. The A and B buttons are easy enough to use, but there should be about 4 more similarly easy buttons within easy reach of your thumb and forefinger when you are holding the wiimote in one hand.

[KDR_11k]

But with that many buttons to choose from, which one is the one that clicks? The Wiimote follows the Gamecube's lead by making a big, visible button the standard select button. Of course I've had a PS2 gamer delete my Burnout savegame because he instinctively thought the big green one meant no while the small red one meant yes...

[Adrock]

The DS simply doesn't use ANY buttons in the games aimed at the new market. That way there's no confusion which button clicks, none of them do. You use the stylus. Your four buttons on the top of the Wiimote would instantly create confusion about which one does the clicking.

You just solved your own problem. None of the face buttons need to have actions mapped to them. There's a single trigger underneath the Wii remote. Which one clicks? The B trigger or all the face buttons could do the same thing. Nothing is idiot proof, but that doesn't mean the world has to adhere to people who can't follow simple on-screen prompts such as "press any button to continue/select/"

Anything can be confusing without familiarity and everything has a learning curve. Knowing when and when not to swing the Wii remote requires some improvement in skill. "Easy to use" does not equate "dumbed down" and I don't think Nintendo really knows the difference yet.

[Kairon]

I don't know Adrock, have you seen the Wiimote prototypes? MANY of them had multiple buttons in place of the single A button.

Everytime this argument about needing more face buttobns pop up, I think back to those prototypes. I think Nintendo probably had very good reason to abandon those multiple button configurations when those were in fact so abundant in their testing.

It's easy to look at this from a conventional wisdom perspective and think that all we need are "MOAR BUTTONS" (TUUUUUBBBEESS) but I think we've seen that merely following conventional wisdom actually leads to a narrowing field of possibilities, instead of opening up new avenues for gaming and gamers.

[Chozo Ghost]

The way you can avoid button confusion is to have the buttons shaped and/or sized differently. This was one thing I really loved about the GC controller, and I'm glad to see Nintendo carried this concept over to the Wiimote, but they really need about 4 more buttons so that the wiimote would at least be compatible with SNES games on the VC. Had they done that, then with the combination of the nunchuck virtually every game would be mappable to the controls.

As for these additional buttons, Nintendo could have made them stand apart from one another by giving them strange shapes like rectangles and triangles and so on, and perhaps made their size different as well. It also would have helped to have them in bright contrasting colors, maybe even have them light up with an led or something for easy viewing in a dark room. Had they done this then there would be far less chance of confusion and at the same time there would have been no need for the classic controller at all.