Topic: REVIEWS: New Play Control! Pikmin

[broodwars]

Incidentally, I far prefer the original Pikmin to its extremely bloated and boring sequel (randomly-generated dungeon crawling 4 de boardum!).  The time limit gives a huge sense of urgency, as does Olimar's daily logs.  And agan, unless your name is Persona nothing good ever comes of randomly-generated dungeons.

[TJ Spyke]

It wasn't that bad, you just had to make sure you blew your whistle right away the second time. If they didn't change it then I would suspect it wasn't a bug, but rather designed that way on purpose.

I liked the random dungeons in Pikmin 2 (except when I got a particularly bad design that would make it almost impossible to beat).

[roger6106]

I played through the first game a few times, and I really liked it. I tried the second game, but it annoyed me so much I never finished it. In the first game there was always quite a few parts that you could get, even if you didn't have all the Pikmin types yet. In the second game you can get a little bit on one level, then you had to go to the next level and get a new Pikmin type, etc. I hate it when games force lots of running around just to make it a longer game. I also didn't like the dungeons. It seemed to me like most of the changes were made just to lengthen the game.

[broodwars]

I played through the first game a few times, and I really liked it. I tried the second game, but it annoyed me so much I never finished it. In the first game there was always quite a few parts that you could get, even if you didn't have all the Pikmin types yet. In the second game you can get a little bit on one level, then you had to go to the next level and get a new Pikmin type, etc. I hate it when games force lots of running around just to make it a longer game. I also didn't like the dungeons. It seemed to me like most of the changes were made just to lengthen the game.

The second game also featured a big emphasis on tedious grinding, since you had to train a large swarm of disposable Pikmin just so you could sacrifice them for White and Purple Pikmin.  Yeah, you had to do a little bit of grinding in the first game to get your army back in shape after a big boss fight or something, but nowhere NEAR to the extent it's required in Pikmin 2.  Combine grinding and randomly generated dungeons and you had a game I just couldn't get into.  And man, I wanted to get into it since it took me around 1 1/2 years to actually find a copy in retail back in the day.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Brood, but it seems you don't really enjoy many games.

In regards to this game I'll probably give it another shot though I know I will not love it because of the time limit, which is contrary to my play style of wanting to take my time and explore a world.

[broodwars]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Brood, but it seems you don't really enjoy many games.

In regards to this game I'll probably give it another shot though I know I will not love it because of the time limit, which is contrary to my play style of wanting to take my time and explore a world.

I just expect more than "mediocre" or "ok" from Miyamoto games.  You've just been unfortunate to see me posting when I feel like ranting, which considering the sad state of the Wii the past year has been disproportionately high.  You'll see me gush if we start seeing some real quality Adventure/RPG titles on Wii (which are my two favorite genres), like say...they don't completely Phantom Hourglass-ize the inevitable Wii Zelda, or the XSeed decides to bring over Arc Rise Fantasia and Fragile.  Or hell...Telltale Games decides to finally start working on Season 3 of Sam & Max and 2DBoy on World of Goo 2...and Capcom decides they actually do care about Wii.

[TJ Spyke]

I wouldn't call Pikmin mediocre or just OK. Maybe if you hate RTS games, but otherwise no. I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it's a good game.

What is up with the hate come people are getting fro Capcom all of a sudden? Other than the sloppy port of Dead Rising, they have done a great job so far.

Xseed announced way back at the Tokyo Game Show in October that Arc Rise Fantasia is coming out here sometime in 2009.

[broodwars]

I wouldn't call Pikmin mediocre or just OK. Maybe if you hate RTS games, but otherwise no. I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it's a good game.

What is up with the hate come people are getting fro Capcom all of a sudden? Other than the sloppy port of Dead Rising, they have done a great job so far.

Xseed announced way back at the Tokyo Game Show in October that Arc Rise Fantasia is coming out here sometime in 2009.

Let's not drift off-topic in this topic about PIkmin 1 but...

1.  I didn't call the first Pikmin "mediocre or just Ok."  I called the second one that, and I actually love RTS games and really liked the first Pikmin game.  Pikmin 2 just has too many tedium-inducing elements that make it hard to care about anything in the game and keep me from enjoying what it does well.

2.  That's what they get when the most exciting thing they've announced in 2 years is an on-rails interpretation of the one game the Resident Evil fanbase all wanted redone in the RE4 style.  You don't get the love from the fans when you take all their cash and use it on projects for other systems.  Capcom was fantastic that first year, but they've been rather unexciting since.

3.  So Arc Rise Fantasis is coming to the US, eh?  Man, how'd I miss that?  Well, that's 1 of 2 games I want them to bring over (let's go, Fragile!).   

[Mop it up]

No! Mop! The Wii version is only $30

But the GameCube version could be had for, like, $10. I know the Wii version seems to be better, but... I'm a cheapskate!

The Wii version is far more forgiving, get this version instead.

How so? By the sound of things, being able to restart a day doesn't seem to be of much help.

The problem is that if you don't use a guide you could end up wasting time getting one of the 5 non-needed parts.

Wait, you can't just collect any of the 25 out of 30 parts but rather there are 5 specific parts you don't need? That's not good...

In regards to this game I'll probably give it another shot though I know I will not love it because of the time limit, which is contrary to my play style of wanting to take my time and explore a world.

Same here. However, perhaps it wouldn't be so bad if you just take your time and explore the world not worrying about collecting anything, then after you discover how to traverse certain areas and have located most of the parts, you start over from the beginning and try to beat it from there?

[GoldenPhoenix]

Same here. However, perhaps it wouldn't be so bad if you just take your time and explore the world not worrying about collecting anything, then after you discover how to traverse certain areas and have located most of the parts, you start over from the beginning and try to beat it from there?

I see your point but I still don't like being rushed, that is one reason why I like but don't love games like Harvest Moon either. The day reset could help sooth the wounds a bit though.

[Stratos]

The non-essential parts are a bit harder to find. One of the non-essential parts is on the last boss level so it is out of the way.

[Jonnyboy117]

Incidentally, I far prefer the original Pikmin to its extremely bloated and boring sequel (randomly-generated dungeon crawling 4 de boardum!).  The time limit gives a huge sense of urgency, as does Olimar's daily logs.

I agree completely.  Pikmin 1 is by far my favorite of the two, for exactly these reasons.

[KDR_11k]

I recall reading about the NPC! version allowing you to rewind to specific days instead of starting over completely?

[decoyman]

I have to somewhat agree w/ broodwars and Jonny... the first Pikmin was simply magical. That sort of magic doesn't happen often – Wind Waker is one of the few other games that gave me that same feeling.

But I disagree that Pikmin 2 was "mediocre or just Ok." It injected some neat new ideas into the equation, and I disagree about the grinding thing... maybe it's because I was always so careful with my Pikmin (they make you love them with their weird mix of loyalty and cuteness) – I was mad if even a few died on a boss fight, so I had TONS of excess Pikmin built up by the end.

Something I wanted to correct, about getting Pikmin back to Onions at the end of the day. You don't HAVE to get them back to the Onions  in order for them to be safe. All you have to do is have them under your control when the day ends. That means you can be clear across the map, but as long as you've called the Pikmin to you and they're following you, they'll be safe. I remember having awesomely exciting "leave no 'Min' behind" missions where I realized there was like one little guy who got left over on the other side of the map at the end of the day (each pikmin shows a little dot on the map)... I'd get my remaining Pikmin to safety, then run across the world, racing against nightfall, just to get to the little bugger right before time ran out... It was exhilarating, let me tell you.

[Ian Sane]

I like Pikmin 2 better because I love exploring and without the time limit it encourages that more.  Though I actually would have preferred more areas like in the original Pikmin than all the caves.  If Pikmin 3 had the freedom of Pikmin 2 but had just more areas to explore instead of caves it would be fantastic.  I love both Pikmin games though and would consider both of them essential.

The 30 day limit can be frustrating but you have 30 parts to get in 30 days.  So just make certain to get at least a part a day.  If you can't then reset the day.  That's what I did and there was no fear that I would have to restart the whole game.  Resetting the day is really no different than dying and restarting a level in other games.

I find it really shocking that so few Nintendo fans have played the Pikmin games.  These were made by Miyamoto and did quite well in reviews.  Why wouldn't you have checked them out?  Is it because it wasn't an established franchise?  Are publishers actually right about that?

[GoldenPhoenix]

I find it really shocking that so few Nintendo fans have played the Pikmin games.  These were made by Miyamoto and did quite well in reviews.  Why wouldn't you have checked them out?  Is it because it wasn't an established franchise?  Are publishers actually right about that?

Yeah that is it, people hate games on Nintendo consoles that aren't established franchises like Animal Crossing, Professor Layton, Wii Sports, Wii Fit etc etc. Seriously the realistic explanation is that it was such as a strange game that may not appeal to most people.

[NWR_pap64]

Golden and Mop: Play the game before deciding that the time limit will ruin your game.

Like we have said over and over again, the experience will differ from person to person and hell, the time limit might not be that big of a problem.

Mop: Read back what I said on the NPC Pikmin thread, you DON'T NEED to restart days.

In my honest opinion, I think both Golden and Mop are looking for excuses to not play the game because they fear the time limit WILL ruin the game.

Its understandable. Whenever a new experience rolls by it can be intimidating and start to wonder the worst. Hell, when I was younger I FEARED RPGs because the gameplay and the stats intimidating me, and I thought I would never get it or even enjoy them. But then I played Super Mario RPG, which is a basic RPG, and once I understood the concept of RPGs I enjoyed them and I stopped fearing them.

Not to sound condescending, but my nephew was 7 years old when he first played Pikmin. He was very young, still learning to play games and couldn't speak English. Yet, he understood the game, was NOT scared by the time limit and beat the game several times, even before the days were up. And he barely asked for my help.

If a young kid with no English skills could play Pikmin and enjoy it despite the time limit I think the two of you, experienced videogame playing adults, could have no problem. Just stop looking for excuses and play it.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Golden and Mop: Play the game before deciding that the time limit will ruin your game.

I freaken BOUGHT the game when it first came out. I KNOW the time limit ruined it as it has ruined every game I've ever played that gives you X amount of time to beat it. Not to mention it has nothing do with fear but being rushed through a game that is padded by a time limit to make it seem longer then it really is. It is a matter of what gameplay experiences you enjoy, and I find time limits to be the most artificially stupid way to extend the length of a game. With Pikmin I think I almost got to the end of the game and quit because I wasn't having fun being rushed through it to get the last few spaceship parts.

I don't like tomatoes either, doesn't mean I'm scared of them (except for the Killer Tomato kind)

[decoyman]

I understand how a time limit in a game can make one feel sort of claustrophobic...

but I don't get the argument that a time limit makes a game longer, artificially or otherwise...

[NWR_pap64]

Golden and Mop: Play the game before deciding that the time limit will ruin your game.

I freaken BOUGHT the game when it first came out. I KNOW the time limit ruined it as it has ruined every game I've ever played that gives you X amount of time to beat it. Not to mention it has nothing do with fear but being rushed through a game that is padded by a time limit to make it seem longer then it really is. It is a matter of what gameplay experiences you enjoy, and I find time limits to be the most artificially stupid way to extend the length of a game. With Pikmin I think I almost got to the end of the game and quit because I wasn't having fun being rushed through it to get the last few spaceship parts.

I don't like tomatoes either, doesn't mean I'm scared of them (except for the Killer Tomato kind)

If you felt rushed it was because you wanted to feel rushed.

Both Majora's Mask and Pikmin are games that may have time restrictions but they are flexible enough that you can get the most out of each game before time runs out. I was able to beat the dungeons before the three days were up and it is possible to get all items in Pikmin before the days were up.

Pikmin is an exercise in strategy and critical thinking. It is certainly possible to manage time in your favor and that's where the game truly shines.

I think you hold strong memories of the mistakes you did the first time and never accepted the fact that the game could have been enjoyable despite the time limit.

I hate to force people to play new games, but considering I played the original game to death, saw my nephew play through it and learned strategies which made the game playing a breeze, the time limit excuse it silly.

[Ian Sane]

I fully understand that games where you can permanently screw yourself and make the game unwinnable are intimidating.  Resident Evil's infamous limited saves is a big reason why I never really got into the series.  In Pikmin you can screw yourself.  I think it's a lot easier to avoid screwing yourself in Pikmin than in other games that can allow you to do that but still the issue remains.

Fortunately Pikmin 2 exists and has no such issue.  If your lone beef with Pikmin was the time limit than you really have no excuse to not play Pikmin 2.

Majora's Mask doesn't have the same issue though failing to finish a dungeon in time would be very frustrating.  You can't make Majora's Mask unwinnable.  Fire Emblem is a potential "screw yourself" game though.

[roger6106]

The time limit never bothered me in Pikmin. In fact, it may have even improved the game.

I definitely agree with decoyman about the first game being magical. The music, the levels, and the journal entries at the end of the day all enhanced the mood of the game. I loved Olimar's ramblings about missing his family, etc. To me the second game seemed to be missing this.

[Stratos]

I understand how a time limit in a game can make one feel sort of claustrophobic...

but I don't get the argument that a time limit makes a game longer, artificially or otherwise...

Maybe it is because if you fail it takes twice as long to beat it? That's the only thing I can think of that GP is referring to.

I love going back and playing the first Pikmin, but I have yet to do so with the second other than playing multiplayer with my little sister. The first just feels better when I run through it again. Maybe I like it because it is an easy game to do a run through of in a short amount of time? Plus I am now waiting for Pikmin 2 NPC so that I can play it again that way.

[KDR_11k]

So what about the day rewind feature, is that in?

[Halbred]

The game basically saves your stats for every day, so you can go back to a previous day (at the "select a save file" menu) and restart from there. However, if you save your game after that, any previous progress will be saved over.

EXAMPLE: Let's say I was doing pretty well up until Day 10, and then things start going haywire. I don't accomplish crap for three days, then finally figure out what I'm supposed to be doing on Day 14. Next time I start up the game, I can choose to start from Day 10 again, and I'll know what to do, so things will go smoother.