Author Topic: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)  (Read 23769 times)

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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2009, 10:42:55 PM »
My favorite stage would have to be Peter Jacob's level.The battle versus the Greater Guardians were one of my faves in the game.

Jonny I liked how they did it that.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2009, 10:59:53 PM »
Whoo, I'm finally playing it!  The music is really great.  I jumped a little the first time a torch popped.

What do you all think of the Latin turning into English?

I always thought that was a really cool effect. I know it's been done in movies and such before, but that was the first time I saw something like it in a game.

I know what you mean about the jumpiness. When I'm first looking through the mansion at the beginning I'm already paranoid and any creepy noise makes me tense. It probably also has something to do with me only playing it at night and in complete darkness.
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2009, 04:07:01 PM »
The recent movie Valkyrie has Tom Cruise transitioning from German to English in the beginning.  I think it's very well done.
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2009, 03:43:17 AM »
FYI everyone, we've delayed the on-air Eternal Darkness discussion by one more week, in order to focus on the 10th anniversary of the website.  So if you still haven't started playing, it's not too late to keep up!  So far I'm a little disappointed in the slowness of this thread, especially after it won the poll so overwhelmingly.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2009, 04:22:50 AM »
Maybe people have been waiting for the first podcast and then they would chime in after hearing your thoughts on there?

I've been slowly getting through the game and I will try to step up my comments a bit.
On that note-

I have been struck by the game's theme of dying heroes. Many of these characters you play as face grisly and horrifying deaths. I remember the first time I played as the Cambodian girl I was shocked and in denial of her death for half the game. I kept thinking she would make a comeback at some point and not truly be dead. The build up for the 'fight' in Paul's level is an amazing shock as well. There is a point that Silicone Knights is making here that heroes die and sacrifices are made for both a higher good and also in waste. In most videogames the lead character you play as never has a fear of perishing. Sure you can mess up, die and have to start over, but there is not typically a point where your main character is permanently terminated. You kill the Prince in Sands of Time and he says 'No, that's not how it went," and you go back to try again for the 'right way'. Yet even if your character does die, he is typically revived (a la Chrono Trigger). Not so in Eternal Darkness for you quickly realize that characters can and will die. You begin to wonder when and how any of your characters will meet their end. You lose your sense of safety that a typical game grants you. Combine that with the sanity effects and you may think a hallucinated death is the real deal and the end of that chapter.  Eventually you wonder if Alex will meet a similar fate so another character like the detective could take up the mantle of Chose One.

To quote author Aaron Allston, "putting characters in danger and then never killing any of them, or at least any of the important ones, robs a series of any tension."

Jumping off my Star Wars author reference, it's similar to what they did in the New Jedi Order series of Star Wars novels. In the first one they kill a very important character from the movies because people always assumed that the main heroes are immortal. Immortal characters will make for boring stories eventually.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2009, 04:58:19 AM »
Jonny it could also be that the game is a bit longer then Luigi's Mansion or Dynamite Headdy. Though I do have to say I am HAPPY for the delay because I haven't started yet!
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Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2009, 05:00:06 AM »
My favorite insanity effect from when I first played the game was the volume getting turned down. I'm sure to many it was an obvious insanity effect, but I just so happened to be playing on a television that had an identical-looking volume control display, and squirmed in my seat trying to find the remote I was sitting on until I realized IT WASN'T HAPPENING!

I recall being disappointed with the final part of the game. Instead of the giant battle I had anticipated, I was running around a confusing building essentially pushing switches. Yeah, I guess there's a boss battle, but it felt anti-climactic, especially after the build-up to the subterranean city was done so well.

While I like the game, I'm not a fan of the save system. I knew well enough to save often, but the PC-like save system allowed me to screw myself over once or twice. It's easy to forget to save when you're really into the story progression, and the game doesn't remind you, even between chapters. What's worse, if you save with low health, you can set yourself up for a painful, uphill battle--especially if you aren't yet able to heal. I remember bitterly having to jump back to a save file from two chapters earlier just because I couldn't finish the current level with my minimal remaining health and sanity.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 05:02:42 AM by TheYoungerPlumber »
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2009, 05:09:25 AM »
Quote
I recall being disappointed with the final part of the game. Instead of the giant battle I had anticipated, I was running around a confusing building essentially pushing switches. Yeah, I guess there's a boss battle, but it felt anti-climactic, especially after the build-up to the subterranean city was done so well.

That actually seems to be a trend in quite a few games now.
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Offline Pale

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2009, 10:42:39 AM »
My favorite insanity effect by far is the Controller Disconnected one.

I think the effectiveness of this was amplified by the fact that Eternal Darkness came out at the same time as the wavebird and as such it was one of the first games I played using it. That left the door open for me to be really stressed out.
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Offline vudu

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2009, 01:41:30 PM »
So far I'm a little disappointed in the slowness of this thread, especially after it won the poll so overwhelmingly.

Proof that just because something wins a popularity doesn't mean it's the best choice.  ;D

My theory regarding why participation is so low is because GameCube games share a lot of the same traits that current generation games do.  If I want to play a third-person action/adventure game there are tons of choices available on Wii, PS3 and 360.  But if I want to play a 2D platformer or an old-school SRPG there aren't quite so many options.

People aren't going to stop playing new games so if they want to participate in RetroActive they'll be playing two games at once.  Why play two games that give a very similar experience?  I'd much rather play a current generation game in tandem with something I can't get from a current-gen retail release.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2009, 01:48:08 PM »
Where are all these games like Eternal Darkness? I must know.
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Offline vudu

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2009, 02:12:17 PM »
Third-person action/adventure games?  They're everywhere.  MadWorld, Deadly Creatures, De Blob, Super Mario Galaxy, Twilight Princess, Okami, MGS4, Ninja Gaiden, etc.

I'm not saying these games are exactly like Eternal Darkness, but they all fit into the same high-level category.

Meanwhile, how many console games are there that are in the same category as Super Ghouls 'N' Ghosts (i.e. 2D platformers)?  Warioland Shake It, LBP, Super Paper Mario, ... is that it?
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2009, 02:33:52 PM »
Sorry, I think ED has more in common with PC-style adventure games from the early 90s.  It has obvious similarities with Resident Evil, but I think the contrast between them is more interesting.  It's NOTHING like Ninja Gaiden or de Blob.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2009, 03:15:53 PM »
Third-person action/adventure games?  They're everywhere.  MadWorld, Deadly Creatures, De Blob, Super Mario Galaxy, Twilight Princess, Okami, MGS4, Ninja Gaiden, etc.

I'm not saying these games are exactly like Eternal Darkness, but they all fit into the same high-level category.

Meanwhile, how many console games are there that are in the same category as Super Ghouls 'N' Ghosts (i.e. 2D platformers)?  Warioland Shake It, LBP, Super Paper Mario, ... is that it?

There are plenty of 2D games that are similar to SGNG. Sounds like you are saying if a game is 3D it is in the same genre.
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Offline vudu

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2009, 03:26:08 PM »
There are plenty of 2D games that are similar to SGNG.

Name plenty available at retail on current generation consoles.
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2009, 12:59:23 PM »
Okay, let's keep this thread on-topic!
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2009, 01:02:05 PM »
One of the things that made me get this was it's unique Insanity effects. I don't think another game has replicated it yet.
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Offline Flames_of_chaos

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2009, 06:20:03 PM »
One of the things that made me get this was it's unique Insanity effects. I don't think another game has replicated it yet.

I believe that is because Nintendo has patented Eternal Darkness' sanity effects system but don't quote me on that. 
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Offline Stratos

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2009, 06:34:22 PM »
One of the things that made me get this was it's unique Insanity effects. I don't think another game has replicated it yet.

I believe that is because Nintendo has patented Eternal Darkness' sanity effects system but don't quote me on that.

It is true, so go ahead and quote him.   ;)
That's also why I believe that the unnamed psychological thriller that Silicone Knights is making for will will have them because they are probably working on it with Nintendo.
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Offline Sundoulos

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2009, 01:31:30 AM »
I rented this game once or twice, and there was a lot to appreciate about the design.  The atmosphere and sanity effects in the game were impressive.  This game also freaked me out in ways that Resident Evil never did (or could). 

Stratos' comments reminded me of something.   One reason I've never been able to get into this game on a long-term basis is that it's so grim; continually watching so many of the characters come to a bad end in most of the chapters gradually decreased my interest. I recognize that it was a bold and fresh move on the part of Silicon Knights; however, this wasn't narrative decision that I really appreciated as a gamer.  I was never able to bring myself to care enough to finish the game.    Still, I don't really need or want a game to remind me that personal sacrifice sometimes goes to waste;  I've seen too many examples and reminders of that in real life already.  As the plot of ET went on, I often found myself wondering why I continued to play it.

I realize that this is a matter of personal preference; I don't really like excessively grim stories in any form of entertainment...mostly because watching suffering, fictional or otherwise, usually really bothers me.   One reason that I've always loved old-school adventure and platforming games is that I've always enjoyed the idea of being able to perform superhuman feats, beat the odds or otherwise make some sort of lasting difference in a fictional world, even though I know that it's a formula that's been repeated ad nauseam since the dawn of adventure gaming. 

It's not that I just like my games to poop rainbows and puppies; I like serious games with narrative weight.  For example, I like Ico and absolutely adore Shadow of the Colossus, but  both of those games have grim, or at least very melancholy, tales at their core.   I suppose that Eternal Darkness just pushed the envelope a bit too far for me.

That being said, my favorite level by far was the level with Dr. Lindsey, mostly because of the Indiana Jones-type  elements in both the character and his level.  I think that's also because I realized that I wished the rest of the game had been more like that level.  The shotgun was awesome, and I suppose it was one of the few times I felt like I was kicking butt.  Of course, that probably just means that I sucked at the game.  I'll also note that Dr. Lindsey is one of the few characters that doesn't seem to come to a horrific end; it was a nice break from the normal pace of the game.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 01:34:14 AM by Sundoulos »
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #45 on: March 10, 2009, 01:57:54 PM »
Sundoulos yeah it has somewhat depressing that nearly everybody died but it was a struggle for survival that intriged me. It was the chance that good could overcome evil. The chance to survive was in present time learning of the past exploits of the people fighting this evil.I really liked how SK brought that out in the game.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2009, 03:10:34 AM »
Grr!
I went through two chapters and forgot to save. I got cocky and was killed because I didn't heal very much. I'm quite frustrated. My sanity was completely empty and I kept missing this one zombie (the one that bursts out of people). For whatever reason my swings with the Ram Dao never connected even though I was locked on to the head and right in front of the monster yet never touched it. I hoped that it was a sanity effect and the I would flash back to before I was missing it but no, dead as a door nail.

Sundulous, it's funny that you responded that way. I too was very shaken by it but instead of not wanting to play it made me want to press on. It was similar to wanting to hurry through a good book because I wanted to see what would happen next.

I think that Maximilien was my favorite level back in the day. I would replay that one multiple times after the chapter select feature was unlocked. I am fond of early gunpowder weapons. I enjoyed the variety of weapons and the attention to detail that was given to them across the entire game.

Jonny, I agree with your comparison to early PC adventure games. I never saw it before you mentioned it as it does a great job masking it with nice doses of action. I would like to see more games go this route that are adventure based. It actually makes me pretty interested to see Another Code on Wii since that game looks to give you more control over characters and the environment. I would like to see some point-and-click adventure games move over to a 3-D exploration style a kin to ED without all the monster fights. I actually enjoyed the turn King's Quest made in Mask of Eternity. Sure it had some issues but it was very similar in gameplay including weapons, magic and a healthy dose of puzzles. A pity it never took off.
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Offline NWR_DrewMG

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2009, 10:50:04 AM »
One of the things I really enjoyed about Eternal Darkness was how you got to see the same story take place over the course of hundreds of years through the eyes of so many different people.  The story was a great little puzzle that filled in slowly throughout time. 

The combat was pretty good, I really liked that.  I also really liked the multifaceted magic system.

I tried to play through the game all three times, but lost motivation somewhere about halfway through the second playthrough. 
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #48 on: March 11, 2009, 10:54:29 AM »
I played this a few years ago and I tried to complete the game in one sitting without saving and I did it.
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Offline BlueStorm

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Re: RFN RetroActive Discussion (Game #3: Eternal Darkness)
« Reply #49 on: March 11, 2009, 01:28:00 PM »

I have not restarted playing this game, mostly because I've been able to find time to play it properly.  It needs to be played at night with the lights off, and the sound turned up.   It has the kind of scope that we don't get often enough.

I think mostly, what I enjoyed was that it was pretty damn original.  I'd love to see more and more twists like this on Adventure games.

I hope I actually get to sit down and play this again sometime this week.
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