Topic: The presumption of equal effort

[KDR_11k]

But that's not part of this topic. Noone's saying games are better on systems with better hardware but when the graphics are bad for the system (I mean badly designed, not low-spec) that's usually a sign of low effort development. Also 8 bit game covers don't belong here because back then many games had terrible covers as they tended to be based on interpretations of the ingame graphics instead of the concept art (which differed a LOT back then). I'm wondering if the box art doesn't perhaps represent how people perceived the games and why the whole kiddie **** didn't come up in the 8bit days (because later it became clear that any cartoonyness was intentional instead of a hardware limitation).

[Ian Sane]

Key phrase...But what if those games were released today?  Would they still be considered to have "great" visuals? (Particularly those from 3D consoles?)  Would you not play those games because their visuals are sub-par for the course?  THAT, my friend, is where the "gameplay over graphics" creed comes from...

That's where the creed comes from when you're talking to some newbie who craps on old games but typically I see it being brought up when a developer someone likes (typically Nintendo in this case) half asses the graphics in an otherwise decent game.

[Bill Aurion]

Key phrase...But what if those games were released today?  Would they still be considered to have "great" visuals? (Particularly those from 3D consoles?)  Would you not play those games because their visuals are sub-par for the course?  THAT, my friend, is where the "gameplay over graphics" creed comes from...

That's where the creed comes from when you're talking to some newbie who craps on old games but typically I see it being brought up when a developer someone likes (typically Nintendo in this case) half asses the graphics in an otherwise decent game.

No, no, no, the old games were just an example...There are still plenty of games that are released these days (particularly on the DS) that follow the graphical styles of games from the SNES and N64, etc...That doesn't make them worse games than those on the PSP, though...

And I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about with the "Ninty half-assed graphics" thing...

[KDR_11k]

Bill, that has NOTHING to do with this. A DS game simply cannot look like a PSP game therefore it doesn't matter that it doesn't. A DS game should look like a good DS game. It has nothing to do with Wii graphics not being HD or normalmapped or whatever either. We don'T expect PS360 graphics from a Wii game but that doesn'T mean we won't crap on the graphics of Alien Syndrome or those Petz games.

[Bill Aurion]

I've gone off-topic with my own little agenda, sorry... =)

[Kairon]

We don'T expect PS360 graphics from a Wii game but that doesn'T mean we won't crap on the graphics of Alien Syndrome or those Petz games.

Poor, poor Alien Syndrome... I know it was a PSP port... but it was multiplayer guantlet + robotron + diablo and it made me... happy...

[KDR_11k]

Get Hellgate: London, I think it's pretty cheap these days. Of course it's repetitive but isn't that exactly what you just described? Or if you prefer something shorter get the Alien Shooter games.

[Kairon]

Get Hellgate: London, I think it's pretty cheap these days. Of course it's repetitive but isn't that exactly what you just described? Or if you prefer something shorter get the Alien Shooter games.

From the tiny bit I've seen of HellGate London, I'm a little turned off by the FPS/TPS aspects. But Alien Shooter looks like some sort of awesome! Lucky me I don't judge a game by it's outdated isometric graphics! &P

But seriously, I'm sad that these games are not available for wonderfully relaxing couch-gaming, and that there's no local multiplayer. A big part of the appeal of Gauntlet, and Alien Syndrome, was playing local multiplayer with my brother or others. Gauntlet Legends on the 64 was great, I could even play that game with all my little cousins.

[NWR_insanolord]

I also love Alien Syndrome. If only it had online play, Kairon and I (the only two people who bought the game) could play co-op.