Author Topic: Fusion syndrome  (Read 6694 times)

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Offline KDR_11k

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Fusion syndrome
« on: December 30, 2008, 02:52:57 PM »
Named after Metroid Fusion which I consider one of the most egregious examples.

The tendency for a videogame series that has lots of exploration and non-linear level design to develop a more structured story and in response curtailing the non-linear gameplay in favour of a more linear design.

For example, Metroid 1-3 had very little story, you were Samus Aran, you got to kill the mother and in the end you fly away. Fusion suddently decided to add characters, story development, etc but to tell that story it locked the player into a very narrow path, making sure there is no way to stray from it and ruin the story. The Prime series was similar, Prime 1 was mostly about the environment, Prime 3 had tons of mission goals and story cutscenes.

Mario 64 had a very freeform approach to levels. You could waltz in and take the stars in almost any order, your only goal was to get a specific count to unlock another set of levels. There were three mandatory levels where you fought Bowser that were the entirety of the story development. Super Mario Sunshine: Suddently there's this unknown enemy whose identity is revealed by the story later on. You're forced to beat the stars in a fixed order and in order to complete the game you must complete seven stars in EVERY area. All the other stars were of no use for beating the game.

Zelda 1 and 2 had almost zero story, you explored the map and beat dungeons in almost any order you wanted. LttP had more story and a somewhat more restricted level order (though you could still take them out of order). Ocarina of Time wasn't even coded to cope with players sequence breaking and beating the temples in a different order, since it's designed to be completely linear in its overworld progression it only checked if the final temple was beaten to unlock the route to the boss.

Symphony of the Night was very unguided, there wasn't much that was necessary for moving through the castle, only a few items were necessary for accessing about 99% of the castle. I didn't even figure out the high jump boots until after I got the bat morph and could just fly anywhere. The GBA games had a harder sequence and breaking it was very hard. PoR had the pictures that took you into different worlds, kinda like the sectors in Fusion. Ecclesia lost the freeform completely, almost all levels are just glorified corridors with a single route through them and only a few treasure rooms attached.

Those are just the first few that came to my mind. It seems that story is the mortal enemy of freeform gameplay and with the hardcorification of core gaming more and more games want to develop their own stories over the gameplay that they started with.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2008, 03:09:55 PM »
This has been a problem for a while now.  As console hardware allowed for FMV and voice acting and stuff like that there's a lot more freedom for the developer to tell a story exactly as he wants to.  In the old days the hardware made it harder to tell a story so you had a paragraph in the manual and the player "plays the story".  I can totally sympathize with the developer having all these ambitions involving plots and chararacters and stuff.  Hideo Kojima quite clearly wants to make movies.  Too bad he would, you know, absolutely suck at it.

It's just something that I think good developers need to pay attention to.  I don't like it when I watch the best parts of a game but I also like having some sort of plot.  It's a balance issue.  Just like difficulty, just like game length.  The hardware that allows for this freedom in storytelling also allows for all sorts of gameplay related freedoms.  A dev can do so much.  They just have to know how to use that freedom.

Though I think some of it is business related.  How often do you hear rubes complaining about backtracking in Metroid?  Nintendo thinks "maybe if we make the next game more linear more people will like it".  I don't care for it but an easier game has more appeal.  Everyone does this, not just Nintendo.

And also from a game design point of view non-linear design is much harder to do.  When the suits are breathing down your neck to get the sequel out maybe you're not going to have as much time to make it so open-ended.  Castlevania games come pretty much annually now.  I doubt they get the same design time Symphony of the Night got.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2008, 03:11:28 PM »
Sorry I don't read walls of text. Not worth my time.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2008, 03:16:53 PM »
Sorry I don't read walls of text. Not worth my time.

I see what you did there...
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Offline vudu

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2008, 03:43:25 PM »
I see what you did there...

So do I.  But the fact is that KDR's post was about one-tenth the size of Pap's post.

I mean no disrespect to Pap because I'm sure he put a lot of work it, but it's simply too much text to read, especially when people on this board already know at least 80% of it because they follow this stuff every day.  It would take me over a half hour to read some of his posts and I simply don't have the luxury of having that much time to kill.

Those are just the first few that came to my mind. It seems that story is the mortal enemy of freeform gameplay and with the hardcorification of core gaming more and more games want to develop their own stories over the gameplay that they started with.

I think it's just the matter of game play evolving as technology has improved and developers have learned from past mistakes.  What you call linear I call structure.  2D platformers don't require a lot of structure because there's not a whole lot of ambiguity--your goal is to move from point A to point B.  When you move to 3D (or an overhead isometric perspective) objectives aren't as clear and unless you know how the developer wants you to progress it can be very difficult to know how to proceed.

(Fusion is the exception, but) In most other cases I think that the more structured sequels are better than their predecessors.  Have you played the original Zelda without using an FAQ?  It's possible to wander around aimlessly for hours before you luck onto the next dungeon.  Certain rooms and powerups are all but impossible without help.

While Doom is a wonderful game, I do not enjoy walking up to every square inch of wall and pressing space bar hoping to find a hidden door.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2008, 03:45:47 PM »
Quote
I mean no disrespect to Pap because I'm sure he put a lot of work it, but it's simply too much text to read, especially when people on this board already know at least 80% of it because they follow this stuff every day.  It would take me over a half hour to read some of his posts and I simply don't have the luxury of having that much time to kill.

I know 100% of what KDR is saying so it is way too much for me. Also you must be a SLOW reader.
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Offline vudu

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2008, 03:48:36 PM »
GoldenPhoenix
is always wrong!
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2008, 04:02:33 PM »
Vudu's just upset because I voted against him in the last Mafia game we played, so he is just trying to find a way to discredit me. Pay no attention to him. ;)
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2008, 04:05:07 PM »
I see what you're saying KDR, Ian.

I just think it's something the medium is having to work out. There's already backlash against cutscenes and BioShock has already been praised for a non-invasive, yet deep, story. At the same time, the HD consoles are pushing definition-immersion-realism as their holy trinity and always looking to movies as their examples. Heck, in addition to Hideo Kojima wanting to make movies, it's evident that Rockstar wants to make videogames in the vein of underworld crime dramas. This isn't a bad thing, but it's a thing that, if pursued, needs to be redefined and worked out and tested from many different angle.

We should feel lucky in fact. We're looking at a medium in dramatically creative throes of evolution, introspection, and reinvention.

Though I must say, there ARE other visions of what games can be. Those are worthy of being explored as well.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2008, 04:06:08 PM »
I see what you did there...

So do I.  But the fact is that KDR's post was about one-tenth the size of Pap's post.

I mean no disrespect to Pap because I'm sure he put a lot of work it, but it's simply too much text to read, especially when people on this board already know at least 80% of it because they follow this stuff every day.  It would take me over a half hour to read some of his posts and I simply don't have the luxury of having that much time to kill.

pap64 hardcore poster confirmed.

Vudu and GP casual readers confirmed.

GUYS! This hardcore-casual posting war is tearing us APART!!!
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
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Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2008, 04:08:46 PM »
I see what you did there...

So do I.  But the fact is that KDR's post was about one-tenth the size of Pap's post.

I mean no disrespect to Pap because I'm sure he put a lot of work it, but it's simply too much text to read, especially when people on this board already know at least 80% of it because they follow this stuff every day.  It would take me over a half hour to read some of his posts and I simply don't have the luxury of having that much time to kill.

pap64 hardcore poster confirmed.

Vudu and GP casual readers confirmed.

GUYS! This hardcore-casual posting war is tearing us APART!!!

Why? Its fun seeing vudu and GP tear each other apart over little ol' me. :D
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2008, 04:18:02 PM »
Its tearing me apart because I like vudu and Pap!
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2008, 04:24:47 PM »


I don't think that turning the level design into a glorified corridor is "structure". Imagine the actions needed as nodes and the dependencies between them as edges in a directed graph. For a linear game the graph is pretty much one long line, for a less linear game the graph is wider. I don't think being forced into one specific order of actions is structure, it's just a lack of freedom. Hell, many games aren't even more linear in regular play, the restrictions just changed from purely physical (character can't get across a gap because he just can't jump that far) to story driven (character can't open a door because NPC A says he shouldn't go there yet or necessary object Y is missing because a story trigger didn't go off yet), making sequence breaks harder and really showing the player that he can't stray from a fixed path rather than implicitely guiding the player along a path since he can't get to the other progress triggers with his physical abilities.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 04:33:52 PM by KDR_11k »

Offline vudu

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2008, 04:27:22 PM »
Just because I don't read something doesn't mean I don't like/value/respect/whatever someone.

And just because KDR makes a comment about Pap that you don't like doesn't mean you should do the same to him.  If you hate something don't you do it too.
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2008, 04:33:47 PM »
OK, in all seriousness now, what vudu is saying is right.

I personally have no issue against KDR. People kept discussing Mario Kart Wii afterwards so I don't mind that he thought it was too long.

The issue didn't need to be brought up. I realize the post was too long and that some people would lack the patience to read through it. I admit it annoyed me at first, but if vudu and KDR don't care I don't either. So let's drop the subject before I REALLY get upset...
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Offline EasyCure

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2008, 04:54:39 PM »
wtf did i walk in on?
February 07, 2003, 02:35:52 PM
EASYCURE: I remember thinking(don't ask me why) this was a blond haired, blue eyed, chiseled athlete. Like he looked like Seigfried before he became Nightmare.

Offline vudu

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2008, 05:46:22 PM »
I'm sure people don't read every single one of my posts.

And apparently since no one read my first post in this thread, I'm going to repeat it again.  ;D


Those are just the first few that came to my mind. It seems that story is the mortal enemy of freeform gameplay and with the hardcorification of core gaming more and more games want to develop their own stories over the gameplay that they started with.

I think it's just the matter of game play evolving as technology has improved and developers have learned from past mistakes.  What you call linear I call structure.  2D platformers don't require a lot of structure because there's not a whole lot of ambiguity--your goal is to move from point A to point B.  When you move to 3D (or an overhead isometric perspective) objectives aren't as clear and unless you know how the developer wants you to progress it can be very difficult to know how to proceed.

(Fusion is the exception, but) In most other cases I think that the more structured sequels are better than their predecessors.  Have you played the original Zelda without using an FAQ?  It's possible to wander around aimlessly for hours before you luck onto the next dungeon.  Certain rooms and powerups are all but impossible without help.

While Doom is a wonderful game, I do not enjoy walking up to every square inch of wall and pressing space bar hoping to find a hidden door.
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2008, 05:54:00 PM »
I don't think the games really became more structured or guided, they often just added arbitrary barriers to sequence breaking. Invisible (mandatory?) secrets are lame either way, that's not a matter of structure but a matter of giving the player hints to what he can do here.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2008, 06:06:51 PM »
Hints, as opposed to MARQUEE BANNERS on the top of the screen telling you where to go in MP3.  ARUGH!
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Offline Deguello

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2008, 06:28:57 PM »
About the Castlevania games...

The general trend appears to be that they're adding things from the original games, like more linearity and stuff.  Instead of just dropping you inside a big castle, they are actually having "levels" now, which is great, IMO.  It's why I liked Portrait of Ruin the best.  Linearity seems to be an ugly word these days, and it's like they expect every game to be like GTA III now, with a bunch of wasted resources making buildings I'll never enter and are simply there to show "scale."  Some people appreciate that a lot more than others, and to a degree people will tolerate a bigger world than normal.  But these days making a HUGE city is overwhelming the player and making it a chore to do simple things.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2008, 02:08:07 AM »
I don't mind linearity much but it's still annoying how series that got their fanbase with a lack of it are gradually turning it up. When a part of the game experience was to find out where to go and how it's just completely different if you're set on a linear path with no way to deviate. Something else I hate is permanent hidden bonuses in linear games since going back for stuff you missed is much more tedious then or sometimes impossible, completely hurting the pace of the game because to avoid being underpowered (or, in some cases, even unable to finish the game/level) you have to find secrets and avoid progressing until you're done searching an area. Without permanent powerups hidden away you can just go ahead and worry about progressing (and when you can pass an obstacle on the first try do so rather than falling down first to check if anything is hidden in the area below it) rather than worrying about missing powerups. I think I wrote another rant about that once though.

Hints, as opposed to MARQUEE BANNERS on the top of the screen telling you where to go in MP3.  ARUGH!

Yeah, to me the hints in a Metroid Prime game are the scannable objects (which give you hints on how something can be interacted with), the full hint system is way too much.

Offline IceCold

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2008, 03:01:19 AM »
EDITED because I sounded like  an 8th grade girl gossiper.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2008, 03:04:08 AM by IceCold »
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2008, 03:12:25 AM »
EDITED because I sounded like  an 8th grade girl gossiper.

It's times like these when I wish having mod powers let me go back in time with people's posts.
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A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2008, 01:45:53 PM »
Quote
I don't mind linearity much but it's still annoying how series that got their fanbase with a lack of it are gradually turning it up.

It's the nature of the entertainment business - focus on who is not part of the fanbase instead of who is.  You see this all the time in pretty much anything that involves a series.  No matter how many people like something there is always a much bigger group that doesn't and because that group is bigger a lot of effort is spent tinkering with the product to try to turn it into something these people will like.  The general vibe I get from these situations is that in theory the fanbase is loyal enough that they can be taken for granted a little bit without being turned off.  I personally hate this way of thinking but it's very common.

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Fusion syndrome
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2008, 04:42:29 PM »
I don't think that's it, I think the fault lies more with developers getting too complacent to design the more complex non-linear levels and developing too much attachment to the characters and universe leading to the desire to flesh them out in a game and add a more elaborate storyline. Obviously few devs can design a storyline that's not completely linear and thus they cut down on the non-linearity that could hurt the storyline. I know you love blaming everything on casuals and non-fans but this is more the fault of the fans than those who aren't.