Right, so, essentially, the only way for the townies to have won after day 2 was for the player who had no logical reason to to betray the townies. The mafia was able to provide a clear path to victory, because they had a clear path to victory.
The issue wasn't finding out the mafia members. Decoyman, if you talked to Khush regularly, you'd know he's always a big fan of joining the mafia if it's possible for him via the rules.
As far as things go, blabbing the roles really wouldn't have mattered. On Day 3, I was investigated, so when it was safe for me to hit again, he'd be able to block the hit then, anyways. In fact, telling him my role was the only chance I'd have to hit someone in the mafia, by lying about my target to him, and trying to pretend I was hitting a townie. Didn't work.
As far as stevey goes, sometimes he plays well, sometimes he doesn't. The whole game, he was against Khush because it's what he does, he suspects Khush until there isn't a reason to suspect Khush, when Khush is dead. That's not a good way to play the game. The fact was, Khush was talking to everyone, but making no progress this game, as far as new friends, new people to work with, or anything like that. That's what set things off, and why I absolutely believed Toruresu's message, and also why it was all more important to tell Khush my role, to feign belief that he was a good guy.
The fact is, everyday, up until day 3, most people voted in blocks. If there's four alive mafia players, and five votes each for two players, there's not much reason to crucify someone. The trap we set that Maxi walked into was just an attempt to see if he'd jump on another bandwagon, but it didn't matter at that point, because by day 3, there was no reason for Toruresu not to take the mafia's offer. The mafia's offer existed and worked despite two mafia members already being dead.
While Toruresu could've played to hope for a townie victory, there wasn't anything sure in that, Khush, whereas the mafia scenario, from day 3 on, was a sure thing, an absolutely positive, working path. That path was possible for a few reasons, the first of which being that the godfather's hit didn't stop even if he died. I'm not going to argue about the semantics of the logic behind that, I believe differently than you do about it, mostly because there should be some advantage to the townies for killing the godfather, the player who is most unlikely to be found, by his role's capabilities. It created a position in which Khush could safely message Toruresu, since losing either him or Maxi made absolutely no difference at that point, mafia wise.
The second aspect was just the overwhelming size of the mafia. Beginning (since Spak was chosen at the start) with nearly a 3:1 ratio creates a very difficult situation. It actually grew to be greater than a 3:1 ratio, just too large of a mafia for the townies to deal with. It seems to me that the townie/mafia ratio might fit better at 4:1, rather than 3:1, and never should it be able to eclipse that, because the townies need time to find irregularities and inconsistencies in the vote. You'll notice, Decoyman, that the townies did find three (counting Toruresu) of the four remaining mafia members by day 4. Find me another game that the mafia has won where the townies have voted out 1/3 of the mafia on the fourth day, and know 3/4 of the rest. Look at the last game we had, an incredibly balanced game, where it took several days to vote out the first mafia member, but the game wasn't over.
In fact, last game, the first mafia member wasn't voted out until the fifth day! There were four more players, I believe, but when there were no mafia members dead at day 5, and the townies still were able to win, that just goes to show the townies do need time to find mafia to have a chance at the game. My issue isn't with Khush's strategy, I don't see who wouldn't aim for about the same thing. It's that the townies killed two mafia members in the first three days, and that didn't mean squat because of the size of the mafia possible with the betrayal. Essentially, all the mafia had to do to win the game was find Toruresu and make sure they took a hit every night. You already said that on day 3, my hit wouldn't have gone through, because Khush targetted me earlier that night, so it didn't matter. You made it abundantly clear that if I hit a townie on Day 2, despite finding the Great Pumpkin, that I'd die. The basics were too many mafia members, not strong enough townie powers, Sally was too powerful with the roles available. Those three things are what unbalanced the game when bundled together, and the Lucy role was just almost impossible with the sheer size of the mafia. Even had I been able to tell who Lucy was, by that time, the mafia would know my role and kill me/block me from doing it from their own abilities.
And Khush, I don't think arguing that there was a pathway out for Toruresu to secure a win is a good idea, because if he teamed with you, there was a 100% chance of victory from the start of Day 3, and if he teamed against you, the odds of a townie victory where still very, very low. Any player with the goal of winning would have no choice but to side with you in that event. Not to mention, even if the townies were to win the game, he'd because the mafia would hit him after he betrayed them.
Topic: Mafia XXIX: "It's the Great Pumpkin (Mafia), Charlie Brown" Day 4 (Read 45873 times)
