Topic: Dual Anolog: Am I the only one

[Luciferschild]

I was a big fan of the fps'ers perfect dark and golden eye but after playing a next gen fps I have to say that I really don't understand the control scheme. It's like this, you hold down L or R and aim, that's what I'm used to but I find you can't do that. You gotta like look up and over using multiple buttons and it seems really inferior. I found myself really not enjoying the game at all because I coudn't aim how I wanted to and it seemed really jacked up. It was like playing quake on a computer 10 years ago, I guess that's where they got this idea from, make it like a pc game but that really sucks ass. You could have it set up just like pd/ge with the other analog as strafe left and right and A for shoot (or X, Y for strafing) and there would be plenty of buttons left over for the other stuff. But no, they just won't yet ya do that those bastards. Would help if there was a z trigger, what happened to that thing? I guess I'm never going to play another next gen fps because I really can't stand this new control scheme makes aiming a pain in the ass. Guess I'll just have to hook up my n64 if I ever get the urge to shoot people. Am I the only one who finds it inferior?  

[dafunkk12]

Actually, I think GE/PD were made that way because there wasn't much of a vertical emphasis in that generation of games and thus didn't require a quick means to move and look at the same time; it was still mostly shooting things directly in front of you.  But notice Turok, with its jumping puzzles (the vertical axis) goes with the look/strafe PC-style setup.  Personally, having begun playing FPS's on the PC, I prefer the dual-stick setup.  It certainly helped me win that Nightfire tourney at my EB to easily and quickly scan both vertically and horizontally for targets.  But to each his own.

[MickeyD]

I liked the control choice on timesplitters 2 called radical B it was like goldeneye controls but hybrid a little with the dual analog movement of halo. I'll be honest I despise dual analog it just doesn't feel that confrotable to me it has to steep a learning curve and you lose the sense of precison shooting like in goldeneye when you hold the r button down to manually aim. Every other next-gen fps uses this style even the new James Bond games it just doesn't feel as good as Rare's control sceme it just feels to clunky. I 'm mean you get better used to it after awhile but Goldeneyes was so much better cause you could just jump right into it with little learning curve. I hope PD for xbox doesn't use dual analog I'll be pissed

[Gharakh]

i think anyone who prefers dual analog over mouse and keyboard is nuts, but thats just my opinion. some of the dual analog games are done really well, like halo, but others feel too clumsy or something... take TS2 for example. i love the game, but it seems so fast that you are just in a panic the whole time to try to hit someone. i think that game could have been amazing if they had slowed it down a little bit to be more like goldeneye/halo so that you can take your time a bit more and actually aim. anyway imo dual analog will never replace mouse&keyboard combo.
oh and i'm sure PD for xbox will use dual analog, i'll be very surprised if it doesn't

[cyrus420]

down with dual analog!!!

FPS were designed to play on the PC. if you're gonna do something stupid like make a console FPS, do the L-aim thing like lucifer said. FPS are WAYYYYY better on the ol' PC. one of the reasons why metroid was ok is because of the target lock-on. you didn't have to aim precisely at a target.

i heard that they're gonna make an X-box version of Counter-strike. they're gonna make it compatible with both controller and keyboard/mouse. if that's really the case, tehn keyboard/mouse users are going to Destroy controller users. you try getting a headshot with the AK within 1-2 seconds of seeing your opponent with dual analogs. you gotta aim fast in CS, and you can't do that with a controller and be very accurate at the same time.

[Duriez]

Quote
Originally posted by: Gharakh
... take TS2 for example. i love the game, but it seems so fast that you are just in a panic the whole time to try to hit someone. i think that game could have been amazing if they had slowed it down a little bit to be more like goldeneye/halo so that you can take your time a bit more and actually aim.

Actually I feel the exact opposite way.  GE licence to kill pistols was very frantic, especially in the basement....ah the memories.  Anyway, I don't like the slow pace of Halo, which lends itself to defensive gameplay and camping.  I personally am an offensive player and I love running into rooms, guns blazing and taking the whole room out.  I was notorious for doing things like that in GE when we played licensce to kill.  To me, TS2 is all about gunplay and speed, especially when I play with one shot kills, whereas Halo is all about being defensive and letting people come to you.  I don't like that kind of gameplay.  I grew up with FPS games like Quakeworld and Duke Nukem 3D after all.  

[ThePerm]

i liked playing shootign games on 64....but now they really dont work out.....ps2, xbox, gcn...no controller seems to suit them well..for now id stick with a pc.

[PIAC]

while i dont play alot of FPS' i do prefer to use keyboard and mouse (i was once pretty good at TFC) allthough i love TS2 i do think i could beat my friend who owns it alot easier if i had mouse and keyboard . BUT having said this, Gamecube controller > n64 controller for FPS' imo

[StRaNgE]

I've always been the exact opposite , I hate fps on  a pc. I can not stand the  mouse keyboard set up. I understand how it could be benificial but it just never did anything for me.

[AdvancedGamer]

Quote
Originally posted by: StRaNgE
I've always been the exact opposite , I hate fps on  a pc. I can not stand the  mouse keyboard set up. I understand how it could be benificial but it just never did anything for me.

Now I understand your screen name... lol j/p   Ya I like keyboard and mouse over dual analog but I can still stand dual analog and It's not that bad.  

[Luciferschild]

I never liked using a mouse for fps'ers, but my point is this, in playing pd and ge on n64 for so long I got very used to that control scheme. But now they radically changed it and I don't see the point, if it ain't broke don't fix it. For me the dual analog thing sucked the fun out of aiming which is what I prided myself on, I never used auto aim. I don't take well to changes, unless it's an improvement.  

[Ian Sane]

I find that the Dual Analog setup takes a while to get used to but once you are used to it it works a lot better than the GE/PD method.  I think there should be always be an option though to set the controls to use both control methods.  PD allowed you to choose a wide variety of control schemes and that's how it should be for all console FPS games.

As for mouse and keyboard, you don't need it for a console FPS if the game is designed specifically for consoles and therefore isn't designed with any situations that requires a mouse and keyboard to survive.  A lot of mouse/keyboard supporters say stuff like "man if this console FPS had mouse/keyboard support all of you controller users would be so screwed".  Yeah well if the game doesn't support mouse/keyboard then that's not a valid point.  If no one can use mouse/keyboard controls then no one needs mouse/keyboard controls to do well in the game.  If my opponents are all Dual Analog users then I only need Dual Analog controls to beat them.

Personally I think that console FPS games should stick with controllers because, unlike with PCs, not every console user is going to have a mouse and keyboard and it would suck ass to pay a fee for online deathmatches and get your ass whooped because you didn't buy a mouse and keyboard for your console.  Of course another way around that is to make it so that mouse/keyboard players and controller players don't play together.

[Samwise Gamgee]

i own both xbox and gamecube! and i have to say that dual anolog isnt that bad! but it sucks with the gamecube! the c-stick just doesnt have enough grip to be effective for a fps game! i play timesplitters 2 on xbox and the controles feel good, i play it on GC and i'm all over the place wen i'm tryin to use the c-stick

[thecubedcanuck]

Quote
i think anyone who prefers dual analog over mouse and keyboard is nuts

there is nothing I hate worse than using a mouse and keyboard to play games. It is the main reason i dont own a single PC game.

I have no problem at all using a cube controller for FPS.

[PIAC]

not a single pc game!? ohwell, what ever floats your boat *hugs pc full o' games*

[bonestormer]

What is it you exactlly hate about the mouse/keyboard setup? The percision aming the mouse provides?

Seriosuly the range of movement a mouse provides, the mouse acceleration (so moving it slower moves your aim only slightly on screen, but moving it fast quickly jumps to another target), and the fact it doesn't reset its position when you stop movine/holding it alows MUCH better aim then an analog stick ever could.

The only console FPS's I have ever enjoyed are ones made SPECIFICALLY for a console. PC ports don't work well seince they were originally designed with the percision mouse in mind. On a game made specifically for a console you can do things like keep the terrain flatter (vertaical aim is the biggest problem with a stick) and even add cheap autoaim

I've really loved games like GE, PD, Halo, and can't wait for the likes of Halo 2 and PD0, but even these I dont think can ever compete with PC FPS greats.

[thecubedcanuck]

Piac

Not one.

I am forced to sit a PC for 10-12 hours a day as a result of chosen profession.

So playing games on a PC have no appeal at all to me, besides I hate using a keyboard for anything, so playing with one would be a bad idea.

I prefer my couch and my big screen and FPS is my favorite style of game.

[PIAC]

ahhh oke, *draws lame comparison* im forced to give people food all day, doesn't stop me eating
but i do understand what you mean, big tv + comfy couch + console = fun, specailly if your burnt out all day useing a pc

[JoeSmashBro]

I used to like in GoldenEye how you could use the control stick to walk forward and backwards and turn, and the C-Stick would strafe and look up/down. So when all the next-gen FPS games came, with their mouse-keyboard-like setup (left stick goes forward and backwards and strafes; right stick turns and looks) I didn't like it. I would always switch it to be more like goldeneye. But once i got used to it, I must say that it freaking rules. People I couldn't beat before I can beat. Because you can move around and aim better with that setup--namely with c-stick doing all the looking. Of course it's not as easy to use as PC shooters but that doens't make pc shooters better. Just different.

[ArmchairAthlete]

All I can say is nothing beats keyboard + good mouse... PC is the best place for FPS if you ask me, especially with the great online support. Counter-Strike, Unreal Tournament 2003, Tribes 2, and America's Army are some great games. A controller just doesn't have the precision you need.  

[John Squire]

Goldeneye is the only fps I've ever really liked so I'd have to agree with the original poster.  I even convinced myself I loved games timesplitters 2 and halo.  But now I realise that they just don't feel the same.  FPS games are just not my thing.  Goldeneye was different because it felt more like a console game than any other fps I've played.  I also don't like all this futuristic stuff...

[cyrus420]

that's exactly my point. those games have precise hit boxes, so you need to aim very accuratly and more importantly you need to aim fast. i feel you just can't do that with a controller. and if you can't do it with a mouse either, then you're doing something wrong.

[LOP Posse]

Goldeneye offered several different control schemes, default being honey.  i found a much more lethal control scheme was solitare where the joystick was used to look around and the c buttons were used to move forward and backward and to strafe.  This allowed for greater speed as well as accuracy for head shots (assuming you take off auto aim which is the only way to play).  This method of control is far superior to Honey and I'm yet to find a honey player who can hold a match to a skilled solitarian.  That being said the next-gen consoles took a que from this and added another analog stick to make these advantages more accessible to the mainstream.  Dual-analog  is in no way inferior to GE's control.  It only requires some time to get used to the advantages offers just as solitaire took some serious time to get used to over honey.  But in the long run it is worth it.  As far as keyboard and mouse go, if I wanted to use  those, I'd get on a PC game forum and not a game cube forum

[MickeyD]

I think the one advantage dual analog has is the fact you can look up vertically quicker with it while walking. I think the reason it feels clunky cause the aimer moves all fast and feels loose not slower and more precise like manually on goldeneye. I think a good way to improve it was to make it slower like GE and once you let go of the stick you aim with the cross hair returns to the center of the screen I think it would make it easier especially when figther enemies up on a building and ground lever when going back and forth. I still think the best control scheme still is GEand Radical B for TP2 took the same control sceme and improved it. It's my favorite fps for gamecube. all the others feel too clunky with dual analog especially since the camera stick is awkward using.