Topic: Theory about third party support

[Flames_of_chaos]

Let me join in the fun: My Wii Library

1st party:

Battalion Wars 2   
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess   
Mario Kart Wii
Mario Strikers Charged   
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
Super Mario Galaxy   
Super Paper Mario   
Super Smash Bros. Brawl   
WarioWare: Smooth Moves
Wii Fit   
Wii Play
Wii Sports   
 Link's Crossbow Training
13 total

3rd party:
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock Bundle   
Marvel Ultimate Alliance   
Castle of Shikigami III   
Guilty Gear XX Accent Core   
Trauma Center: New Blood   
Trauma Center: Second Opinion
Okami   
Resident Evil 4   
Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles
We Love Golf!
Zack & Wiki Quest for Barbaros’ Treasure   
Boom Blox   No   
The Godfather: Blackhand Edition   
Medal of Honor: Heroes
Dance Dance Revolution Hottest Party
Blast Works: Build, Fuse & Destroy   
Ghost Squad   
House of the Dead 2 & 3 Return
Nights: Journey of Dreams   
Sonic and the Secret Rings
Super Monkeyball Banana Blitz
Geometry Wars: Galaxies   
Metal Slug Anthology
SNK Arcade Classics Volume 1
Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo's Dungeon   
No More Heroes
Rayman Raving Rabbids   
Rayman Raving Rabbids 2
Red Steel   
29 total

[NWR_insanolord]

The 360 has been out more than a year longer than the Wii, of course it has more big games. And Mario Galaxy is the best game this generation on any console, that's gotta count for something.

[BeautifulShy]

I don't have as much as you guys I have 17.
First Party:
Wii Sports
Smash Brothers Brawl
Mario Kart Wii
Mario Galaxy
Zelda:Twilight Princess
Metroid Prime 3
3rd Party:
Mortal Kombat Armageddon
Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles
Boom Blox
Zack&Wiki
Elebits
Resident Evil 4:Wii edition
Trauma Center: Second opinion
Mario&Sonic at the Olympic Games
Red Steel
Okami
No More Heroes

[Galford]

The sheer fact we've resorted to Gamecube style lists tells me everything I need to know.

This thread has reached it's conclusion.

Peace out homies....

[GoldenPhoenix]

The sheer fact we've resorted to Gamecube style lists tells me everything I need to know.

This thread has reached it's conclusion.

Peace out homies....

How sad.

[KDR_11k]

Actually this time the lists are used as some form of appeal to authority rather than a justification of "these games are coming". I just joined in to show how few Wii games I have. No idea how people here got so many, if money wasn't an issue I could at most double my library (or at least that's what I think based ont he games I see in stores), seems like some people will buy anything. Desperation purchases?

Not sure about the lists of upcoming games this time, they do seem highly hardcore-focussed, i.e. games that get hyped up here. If you want my guess I'd say they're all going to be commercial failures, at least the lists Bill puts out.

In closing, Pro Evo 2008. I don't think the Cube ever got any of those and the Wii even got a special version instead of a lame port, the game is still fairly high in sales charts AFAIK.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Actually this time the lists are used as some form of appeal to authority rather than a justification of "these games are coming". I just joined in to show how few Wii games I have. No idea how people here got so many, if money wasn't an issue I could at most double my library (or at least that's what I think based ont he games I see in stores), seems like some people will buy anything. Desperation purchases?

Not sure about the lists of upcoming games this time, they do seem highly hardcore-focussed, i.e. games that get hyped up here. If you want my guess I'd say they're all going to be commercial failures, at least the lists Bill puts out.

In closing, Pro Evo 2008. I don't think the Cube ever got any of those and the Wii even got a special version instead of a lame port, the game is still fairly high in sales charts AFAIK.

I purchase my games based off a myriad of things, many I purchase to have a great time with my family. Others I purchase because they look unique while others, such as multiplatform games I purchase because of the added interactive experience such as Godfather, Harry Potter, and Scarface. Overall I am quite happy with my collection. I bought Bug Island because it is so bad and wasn't that expensive (a great game to laugh at) and Cruis'n because I have nostalgia for Cruis'n USA.

Actually I can easily defend any of my purchases so it is far from "desperation", especially since I would have no reason for it since I buy games for PC, 360 and PS3 as well. Just because someone may not be interested in a particular game does not mean that game is not a solid or good title. Heck I was amazed your list didn't even include SMG, Metroid 3 or Smash Brothers.

[NWR_insanolord]

I don't feel like typing out all of my games, and I think we have enough lists, but I'd like to say that I own 14 third party Wii games and only two of them are things that I'm not 100% happy with. I've got way more games than I had at this point on the GameCube and I'm even ahead of the DS at this point. There are more games that I'm looking forward to this year than any other year, probably twice as many as any year of the GameCube.

This thread is pointless. Some people are happy with the third party support on the Wii, some aren't. There's no need to create an endless argument where neither side gains any ground or convinces anyone to switch sides, there's no need to look down on the other side. Different people have different tastes in games, and this is all opinion, nobody is right or wrong. Forums are all about lively discussion, but this discussion is going nowhere and only serving to get us all mad at each other.

[KDR_11k]

Heck I was amazed your list didn't even include SMG, Metroid 3 or Smash Brothers.

Guess I forgot to mention that I only listed third party titles there because that's the subject of this debate, I do have Galaxy, MP3C, Super Paper Mario, Excite Truck, Endless Ocean, Wii Play and Wii Fit. No Smash Bros because Melee wasn't that much fun for me (no friends that liked the game) and I'm not willing to pay even 40 Euros for Brawl.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Heck I was amazed your list didn't even include SMG, Metroid 3 or Smash Brothers.

Guess I forgot to mention that I only listed third party titles there because that's the subject of this debate, I do have Galaxy, MP3C, Super Paper Mario, Excite Truck, Endless Ocean, Wii Play and Wii Fit. No Smash Bros because Melee wasn't that much fun for me (no friends that liked the game) and I'm not willing to pay even 40 Euros for Brawl.

Ah OK. Personally I think this debate doesn't necessarily hinge on the quality of the 3rd party games but preferences. Like I am willing to bet that you wouldn't like games like Smarty Pants which are more casual in nature. The game is an excellent trivia game, but it definitely is NOT for every gamer out there. I guess with Wii I've found games, that IMO, have a "soul" they are fresh even if they are not big budget or extremely polished. They offer an experience I cannot find elsewhere, that is exciting to me. Before Wii came out I was mainly playing DS for just this reason and was growing tired of gaming. It was the same stuff over and over again, there were few fresh experiences whether they be from gameplay, or from the way you interact with the game. In a way the Wii made me a kid again with new ways to interact with games whether it be from Nintendo or some of the 3rd parties.

[KDR_11k]

My quality requirements are strongly based on price, it seems that many B-list and crappy games come out at the full 60 Euros when Nintendo themselves have mostly abandoned that price.

[NWR_Lindy]

I don't mean to bring in "tiers" in to enforce my gaming tastes on the debate, but I think that the "Big 5" that I listed could easily be considered "best of generation" material.  Below that, you have really good games that you'd need to think about to remember ten years from now.

[NWR_insanolord]

How do you justify not letting RE4 and Okami into the discussion because they're last gen ports but putting Twilight Princess in your top tier?

[Mario]

It's all bullshit to me.

[NWR_Lindy]

How do you justify not letting RE4 and Okami into the discussion because they're last gen ports but putting Twilight Princess in your top tier?

I put Twilight Princess in there because its first appearance was on Wii.  It just happened to be a GameCube port, and it just happened to also be released for GameCube at the same time it was for Wii.  Okami and RE 4 were both previously released on a previous console generation.  They're great titles, but they're nothing new aside from their tweaked control schemes.

If I was to sub-divide the Big 5, I'd put Galaxy and Brawl at the very top, followed by MP3, MK Wii, and Zelda.

I think Nintendo themselves has yet to create that one huge new IP that defines the Wii.  Right now it seems like the Wii is defined to a certain degree by what's come before: Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart, Brawl, GameCube ports.  I'm still waiting for that one brand-new breakout title that the Wii becomes known for.  That title is probably Wii Sports, but I don't feel like that game is universally revered...you either love it or hate it.  I'm waiting for something totally new, that is so amazing that nobody - casual, hardcore, male, female, alien, whatever - can deny its value.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"I'm waiting for something totally new, that is so amazing that nobody - casual, hardcore, male, female, alien, whatever - can deny its value."

What kind of bizarro world do you live in that includes such certainty?

[GoldenPhoenix]

I'm waiting for something totally new, that is so amazing that nobody - casual, hardcore, male, female, alien, whatever - can deny its value.

Uhh, what Xbox 360 or PS3 game matches this standard? Heck what game in the last few years has had that? The only game I can think of that MAY match that is Wii Sports which is NOT a love it or hate it game because it is universally acknowledged as a very fun game by most who've played it. That is about as good as you are going to get with a majority liking something. This is an impossible standard because NO game is liked by everyone.

Also in regards to sequels, the big titles on PS3 are made up mostly of sequels:

-Halo 3
-MGSIV
-Ratchet and Clank
-GTAIV
-CoD4
-Ninja Gaiden
-Oblivion

Then you have games like Viva Pinata, Dead Rising, Gears of War, and Resistance. None of these games so far even come close to universal acceptance for their "value".

[NWR_Lindy]

But if the Wii is so revolutionary and all the other consoles are so generic, then why is it unreasonable for me to want a game that defines the Wii as a console?  Why should I demand any less from such a revolutionary piece of equipment?

[Flames_of_chaos]

But if the Wii is so revolutionary and all the other consoles are so generic, then why is it unreasonable for me to want a game that defines the Wii as a console?  Why should I demand any less from such a revolutionary piece of equipment?

Same thing can be said about the 360 or PS3 as in what really justifies a 400 - 600 dollar experience and what is exactly special that justifies that price tag.

[KDR_11k]

But if the Wii is so revolutionary and all the other consoles are so generic, then why is it unreasonable for me to want a game that defines the Wii as a console?  Why should I demand any less from such a revolutionary piece of equipment?

You got it with the system, remember? If you go only by hardcore-acknowledged games of course you're going to get a list of sequels and niche titles, part of the Wii's revolution was to change the focus from hardcore-only to wide appeal and games like Wii Sport and Wii Fit are the epitome of that move.

[Smash_Brother]

But if the Wii is so revolutionary and all the other consoles are so generic, then why is it unreasonable for me to want a game that defines the Wii as a console?  Why should I demand any less from such a revolutionary piece of equipment?

How do you know someone who isn't Nintendo isn't developing that game for the Wii right now?

[GoldenPhoenix]

All I know is that the Wii has had some new, and fresh experiences not found elsewhere. Now you can argue that they are not AAA titles (at least some of them) but at the very least they have some very fresh and FUN ideas. Look what the Wii did for Godfather, just a simple thing like the way you interact with the game changed its enjoyment. Boom Blox is so simplistic in its Wii mote implementation but still creates a fresh interactive experience. Zack and Wiki is the same, it has things in that game that there is no way any of the other consoles could replicate in mechanics, and some truly FUN uses of the Wii remote. Even Mario Galaxy brilliantly brought platforming to a new level by utilizing the point functionality in conjunction with the platforming.

Your other points seem weak. For one there is no way you will EVER create a game that everyone will love, it just is not possible. Also the Wii has already had defining games for it, not to mention the fact that it will more than likely cause its competitors to implement motion controls in future consoles. Also what exactly is a "defining" game? That in itself is extremely subjective, because I would say Wii Sports was followed by games like Boom Blox, Mario Galaxy, Zack and Wiki, and others. Wii is revolutionary in how you interact with games, and I think ALL those utilize this, giving the industry a chance to work with something that opens new doors to interactivity. Is it still evolving? Of course, like any vastly new system it takes time for progression to happen though I have to say I'm impressed so far with where it is at now in less than 2 years.

[NWR_Lindy]

Saying that any third-party developer that isn't supporting the Wii is going to shrivel up and die is pretty far-fetched.  They won't make as much money as they could, but going out of business?  I doubt it.  You can still totally ignore the Wii and DS and have a completely healthy company that lives off of PC, 360, and PS3 sales.  I've ever heard a dying developer say, "Yup, we went under because we didn't make Wii games".  Ironically, the only company that I've heard expressing regret about their lack of Wii support is Electronic Arts, and it's in their best interests to adequately support all platforms just to cover their massive expenses.

Remember, not everybody wants to make Wii games.  Heck, John Carmack would apparently rather make an iPhone game than a Wii game.  Some developers just don't like the platform out of personal preference, probably because they like to program on top-tier graphics hardware.

[NWR_insanolord]

That's why all those developers only made games for the N64, GameCube and Xbox when they had superior graphical capabilities, right?

[KDR_11k]

I've ever heard a dying developer say, "Yup, we went under because we didn't make Wii games".

The Wii is still very young, if you want statements of that type you should look for ones from earlier dominant systems.