Author Topic: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.  (Read 25636 times)

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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2008, 04:23:31 PM »
I think my reaction is less a result on the casual focus of E3 (though it does bother me) and more on the revealed details of Wii Music.  The fact that Nintendo would ever make something so far removed from a videogame is frightening.

Offline vudu

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2008, 04:38:10 PM »
Nintendo has a long history of doing things that are off the wall like this.  Look at "games" like Mario Paint, Hey You Pikachu and State Debut.  (Hell, even Animal Crossing and Nintendogs don't exactly count as games.)
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline Plugabugz

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2008, 04:40:06 PM »
Greg is a true poet with nintendo-like polish.

Offline Pale

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2008, 04:42:24 PM »
I think the problem with WiiMusic is that there IS room for it to be a game.  PLENTY of room, even if the result is extremely simple.  Look at band bros.  It's far from a complex music game, but it's a freaking riot.

That's what I expected out of Wii Music.
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Offline Nick DiMola

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2008, 04:43:27 PM »
I think the problem with WiiMusic is that there IS room for it to be a game.  PLENTY of room, even if the result is extremely simple.  Look at band bros.  It's far from a complex music game, but it's a freaking riot.

That's what I expected out of Wii Music.

Totally agreed. I expected something similar to Band Bros. and not seeing that happens just makes me sad because it is unrealized potential. Same goes for Animal Crossing, it just feels like it missed the boat ... again.
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Offline shammack

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2008, 05:39:59 PM »
Why does every philosophical discussion or big argument about the direction of Nintendo have to turn into a discussion about Wii Music?

Offline DAaaMan64

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2008, 05:41:41 PM »
WiiMusic > Nintendo?
FREEEEEDDDDDOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM!!!!

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Offline Shift Key

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2008, 07:19:00 PM »
Why does every philosophical discussion or big argument about the direction of Nintendo have to turn into a discussion about Wii Music?

Because flogging a dead horse is much easier than flogging the horse that just bolted...

Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2008, 08:34:25 PM »
POTY. holy ****, deg. you're spot on.

and lol @ the floundering of ian and silks.

If by "floundering" you mean "playing games on my 360 and PS3 as my Wii collects dust", then you're spot-on as well.
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Offline vudu

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2008, 08:47:50 PM »
Why do you even work here any more?  You don't seem nearly as bitter on the podcast.  (At least back on episode 98; I'm behind.)
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2008, 09:03:26 PM »
Why do you even work here any more?  You don't seem nearly as bitter on the podcast.  (At least back on episode 98; I'm behind.)

Lindy sounds content on the podcasts, I think the boards make him bitter. :(
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Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2008, 09:07:16 PM »
Lindy sounds content on the podcasts, I think the boards make him bitter. :(

Honestly, they do.  They get me ranting WAY too much.  I'm actually really mellow.  Casual, even.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2008, 09:09:25 PM »
Lindy sounds content on the podcasts, I think the boards make him bitter. :(

Honestly, they do.  They get me ranting WAY too much.  I'm actually really mellow.  Casual, even.

I think there is a psychopath just waiting to come out under that casual demeanor. ;)
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Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2008, 09:14:21 PM »
I think there is a psychopath just waiting to come out under that casual demeanor. ;)

That's why I play the games.  <twitches>
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Offline Pale

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2008, 11:39:06 PM »
Why does every philosophical discussion or big argument about the direction of Nintendo have to turn into a discussion about Wii Music?
Because Nintendo closed their press conference with it as their HUGE holiday title?  Seriously, aren't we supposed to be looking at it as their current direction?
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Offline wandering

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2008, 04:00:43 AM »
I would normally say that the DS is Nintendo's last bastion of traditional gaming, but now that the cat's out of the bag that it's 46% female, I'm expecting it to fall any time now.

First our schools fell, then our workplaces. Now, they're corrupting one of the few things that wasn't tainted by their evil estrogenic influence: our videogames. Is nothing safe?
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2008, 04:03:41 AM »
Lindy a misogynist CONFIRMED.

Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2008, 10:00:32 AM »
I only beat women when I play against them in video games.
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Offline Deguello

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2008, 02:28:11 PM »
By my interpretation of Deg's remarks, "hardcore gamers" are defined (beyond simply their taste in games) by their intolerance of others and a supremacist attitude. I agree that these unpleasant traits are all-too-often observable within those of us who frequent gaming message boards. I believe that people's personal taste in games are not up for debate, but their attitudes towards the preferences, opinions, and perspectives of others who may feel differently are another matter entirely.

Sadly, I have noticed Deguello personally exhibit the very same behaviour he condemns when it comes from the keyboards of those preoccupied with HD graphics. For instance, rather than being satisfied with registering his disagreements with Silks (regarding his "serious gamer" comments, PS3--areas where I have my own disagreements with Silks) and rebutting his arguments, Deg has deemed it necessary to repeatedly ridicule him in a thread that was only related to those debates insofar as it was started by Silks. This is an act of intolerance, an expression of the need to demean someone because they are "on the other side" of an issue, and it cannot be excused on the grounds of perceived transgressions committed by Silks.   

When responding to Jonny's Mario Kart Wii review, Deg discussed those that concurred with certain criticisms of the game that he personally did not share, stating "I think more is being said about those people than about Mario Kart." The clear inference to be drawn from this statement is that Deg did not consider the disagreement to be in any sense legitimate, a product of differing points of view. Instead, it was apparently a mere function of deficiencies in the character of those with whom Deg disagreed. Such assurance in one's own superiority could just as easily be ascribed to "hardcore gamers" when they assert that only people of limited intellectual capacity can enjoy a so-called "casual" game.

I make these observations not to slam Deg, but to make the point that "hardcore gamers" do not have a monopoly on the supremacist sentiment that Jeff rightly decries in this context. The folly of the "hardcore gamer" is simply the folly of intolerance itself, and only demonstrates how vital it is to maintain respectful disagreements when we find ourselves at odds with one another over something.

I don't see why reviving past ghosts is necessary, however I don't see, other than the Tecmo Bowl thread, myself as being superior nor having a superior intolerant mindset.  The Tecmo Bowl thread (Which, looking back, I accept as being wrong) was the result of weeks of frustration on these boards, watching good threads deteriorate into Definition Warz (where in you state you definition of hardcore and casual games) and List Warz (where in you list a bunch of games you like for a platform) by Lindy stating his thought on Wii-Only gamers and bringing up the PS3 is a Wii Castlevania thread and why it rocks and all that.  Then I see Lindy having a thread about Tecmo Bowl and it just clicked.  I actually started pacing my room a bit saying to myself "How dare he berate our readers, call them morons, make them feel terrible (I thought), derail threads and then start up a thread about something doesn't fit into the very rigid rule set he just laid down for others?!"  And so I took on the role of a hardcore Madden fan and stated Tecmo Bowl as a game for casual babies (I have no opinion either way) and showed him what he'd been doing.  I understand that fighting fire with fire leaves your hands burnt, but I had a little fire in my eyes when I was typing.  I don't see it as "intolerant" mainly because it was just Lindy I had a beef with and not Tecmo Bowl fans.  It endly poorly and I felt bad about it.

I also don't see my remarks regarding Mario Kart being intolerant either.  I believe this remark, "I think more is being said about those people than about Mario Kart," was about Jonny stating that it was embarrassing to be defeated in a race by somebody using the Wii Wheel, which he has, in his review, deemed inferior.  However, most players do use it, and a lot hold world records and have High VS. Scores, some even at the 9999 limit.  It's not like the Wii Wheel is a joke character like Dan from Street Fighter Alpha or JigglyPuff.  People have adapted to it and are using it to win.  So Jonny, faced with the dilemma of "This control is inferior" and "people are beating me with it," elected to say he felt embarrassed to lose to somebody using it, as if someone just beat him with Dan or JigglyPuff.  I didn't say his opinions on Mario Kart Wii didn't mean anything (although in the grand scheme of consumer sales, they apparently didn't), but I sort of felt that part DID speak more about the reviewer than the game.  And I didn't see it as a "deficiency" of his character either.  It's actually a process a lot of us go through.

And you are correct, Hardcore gamers don't have a monopoly of these feelings, but they do hold the overwhelming majority of opinion-making positions, be they journalists or longtime forum members.  And can most assuredly state that they did "start it," and the result is the majority of gamers, be they non-gamers, lapsed-gamers, female games, etc. feel exactly the same way back.  But they are more respectful back by not engaging in Label Warz and simply enjoying their Hannah Montanas or Wii Plays (Did you know that game sold 13 million worldwide?) and not giving a care what anybody else plays or who makes what (at least not yet).  Hardcore feel slighted that Nintendogs is even successful, that this new audience, comprised of former gamers and non-gamers, gets advertised to and bones thrown their way and focus given to them for a while.  It's dichotomous, really.

And as a remark to Pale, it's not that nobody finds fault with Nintendo's E3 show.  I personally, thought they maybe shouldn't have had Shaun White Snowboarding there.  In fact, they shouldn't have had any lack-of-effort third party games there and I daresay the only reason they had to showcase them is because they've been guilt-tripped into believing that the more Nintendo succeeds on their own platform with effortful, high-quality software, the less third parties can succeed with their effortless, afterthought software.  According to behaviorism, Nintendo just reinforced bad behavior.  But hopefully third parties will soon have to realize that they need to bring their A-games in order to compete.  And just the same, what does an absolutely jawesome E3 show even mean anyway?  A lot of people thought Sony won E3 2005, with PS3 movies and PSP games that were assuredly going to wipe the floor with the casual DS.  What did that mean in the long run?  Not much, apparently.
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Offline Deguello

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2008, 02:51:02 PM »
Quote
I'm not an original gamer.  I can't be.  I wasn't even born yet when Pong or the Atari came out.  But when I became a gamer I was interested in videogames.  Maybe I initially picked games that hardcore gamers would scoff at and maybe my influence on the market ruined things for them and maybe even as I became more interested in the hobby and became more knowledgeble of it my tastes never reflected their's.  But I was interested in videogames.  This is a group that IS NOT interested in videogames but is having videogames altered so that they like it.  I think that is a HUGE difference.  That's never happened before.

Ian, I just don't know how you profess to know what these new gamers are thinking.  How do you know that a non-gamer or a lapsed gamer or a child is not interested in video games after playing Nintendogs or Wii Sports or whoever?

I can even prove THEY ARE interested.  Mario Kart DS is the best selling version of Mario Kart, ever.  Why?  Mario Kart Super Circuit on the GBA sold approximately 5.4 million.  Mario Kart DS has sold more than twice that.  I bet you are going to answer "larger userbase" as the reason.  AND WHY IS THAT?  WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?  Could they be the "non-interested" new gamers?  Just a thought.

Edit: oops, ehehe double post.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2008, 02:59:22 PM by Deguello »
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Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2008, 11:04:36 PM »
Let me just say that I love Nintendogs.  I thought it was a great game, if you want to call it that.  You run out of stuff to do way too quickly, though.  It'd be perfect fodder for an MMOG.
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Offline Mario

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #46 on: July 27, 2008, 12:41:13 AM »
I disagree about one thing Deg, that's Shaun Whites showing, I think it looks like a good game, and it's a third party game using some new ideas. They got Shaun White himself there too, which was big. Maybe not for us but i'm sure all these people on Shaun White forums were like "oh hey this Wii thing looks aaaaawesome dude".

Offline Shift Key

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2008, 12:58:45 AM »
They got Shaun White himself there too, which was big. Maybe not for us but i'm sure all these people on Shaun White forums were like "oh hey this Wii thing looks aaaaawesome dude".

That guy has his own forum? That just makes me even sadder about the interwebs.

Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2008, 03:47:25 AM »
Where did I say that I was embarrassed to lose to someone playing with the Wii Wheel?  I don't recall ever writing or saying that and would be interested in reviewing that statement in context if it actually happened.

What I do recall saying about the Wii Wheel is that the online symbol for it is an acknowledgment by Nintendo that it's the least ideal way to control the game.  The only reason for that symbol to exist is to let people know that they just lost to a handicapped player.  Otherwise, there would be symbols for the Nunchuk, Classic, and GameCube controllers as well for full disclosure to anyone who cares.

I think the game is harder to play with the Wii Wheel, and the symbol by your name (especially the golden one) is a badge from Nintendo that says you are so damn good at Mario Kart that you can dominate even with the burden of a less precise controller.  That's not to say that every player who has the golden wheel symbol has a superiority complex or even thinks about such things -- some of them may simply have gotten used to the wheel from the start or don't even realize you have other options.

Having said all that, I don't think the Wii Wheel has anything to do with hardcore vs. casual vs. traditional vs. blue ocean vs. core vs. mainstream gamers.
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: How to spot a Hardcore Gamer in the Wild.
« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2008, 03:50:27 AM »
Let me just say that I love Nintendogs.  I thought it was a great game, if you want to call it that.  You run out of stuff to do way too quickly, though.  It'd be perfect fodder for an MMOG.

Agreed.  I really enjoyed Nintendogs for about a week.  It's truly adorable, immersive, and unique.  Sadly, it's also very shallow and repetitive, so I traded it in soon afterwards.  I felt sure that Nintendo would follow it up with an improved sequel or spin-off (for cats, perhaps) that would address some of my complaints and secure a permanent spot in my game library, but it still hasn't happened.
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