Topic: Iwata: We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings

[Dasmos]

I have yet to hear a straight answer out of anybody who was upset about the E3 showing about what they would have like to have seen. What would have made this a better showing from a HARDCORE standpoint?

I have the term HARDCORE too, almost as much as I hate the labelling of CASUAL & NON-GAMERS. We're all gamers for fucks sake!

[NWR_Lindy]

What would I like to have seen?

- A new FPS from Retro
- Profile of MadWorld
- Profile of Disaster: Day of Crisis
- Profile of Fatal Frame
- Teaser trailer for new Mario and Zelda (not that this would have really impressed me)
- Something mentioned about how the DS is the home of RPGs

Need I go on?  Nintendo pretty much acted like all they make are these mass market games.  This lip service from Iwata just makes me roll my eyes.  Sure Nintendo, you didn't think that E3, the one games show that all GAMERS - not soccer moms and grandmas - watch wasn't the place to announce non-mass-market games.  Whatever.

I can assure you that the people that are going to buy Wii Sports Resort and Wii Music aren't coming home from work to catch the E3 Press Conference feed on IGN Livewire like I did.  Why not show those games off on the Today Show or something?  Seriously, E3 isn't the forum to show those types of games exclusively.  The audience is way too game-nerd for that.

[bustin98]

I have yet to hear a straight answer out of anybody who was upset about the E3 showing about what they would have like to have seen. What would have made this a better showing from a HARDCORE standpoint?

I have the term HARDCORE too, almost as much as I hate the labelling of CASUAL & NON-GAMERS. We're all gamers for fucks sake!

Read my first post in this thread.

Harddrive/storage solution
Kid Icarus/Factor 5
Retro Studios next project

Wii speak was a surprise and nice, but I fall into the 'nice, but it could have been better' category. I'm sure (hopefully) some 3rd party will release a headset.

I read an article refering to some gamers as 'veteran' gamers. That kinda fits better than hardcore. I've been playing for a long time and I've got the whole hand-eye thing down. I want games that challenge and offer some meat. While some so called casual games offer challenge, they don't have the meat. And there are so many casual games that I'm pooping casual games (sucks when Tetris is coming down the shoot!). Time to fill out the other genres.

[redgiemental]

A new gamer's game being shown would be all I wanted Dasmos.

edit:I think Bustin I share a similar meat lust.

[Dasmos]

Okay, I missed the mark with my question. I should have said: What were you (honestly) expecting from Nintendo at E3?

It's nice to dream about non-existant games (Kid Icarus, Retro FPS lol), games no-one cares (Disaster, Fatal Frame) about and incomplete projects (Harddrive) being shown at Nintendo's Press conference, but you have to be realistic. If you were expecting these things at E3, you were always going to be disappointed.

EDIT:

A new gamer's game being shown would be all I wanted Dasmos.

Here is where I tell you to clarify a little or stop being such a retard.

[redgiemental]

So expecting Nintendo to maybe have one traditional game was silly? They've been making them for over 20 years.

[MegaByte]

It's nice to dream about non-existant games (Kid Icarus, Retro FPS lol), games no-one cares (Disaster, Fatal Frame) about and incomplete projects (Harddrive) being shown at Nintendo's Press conference, but you have to be realistic. If you were expecting these things at E3, you were always going to be disappointed.

A hard drive should not have been an incomplete project though.  People have been calling for that since before launch, and more vocally ever since VC and especially WiiWare came out.  Many people were expecting it, at a bare minimum, last E3.

[Dasmos]

So expecting Nintendo to maybe have one traditional game was silly? They've been making them for over 20 years.

Animal Crossing.

BANG! A TRADITIONAL GAME!

Is this all you ever wanted? No.

[BigJim]

Wow, Nintendo going through the trouble of publicly apologizing in Forbes to only a few internet trolling dissatisfied gamers? Methinks dissatisfaction with the platform is slightly more real than some fans thought. Hi Deg.

So this means they don't have any core games nearing the end of development at all then?

Shouldn't the "idea" of Animal Crossing keep you satisfied for the next 6 months until you play it for 10 minutes and get bored? There's no lineup gap. The mere idea of future games should quench your thirst plenty.

Silly gamers.

But seriously, it would be nice if Nintendo listened instead of telling us we should be "tremendously excited" about AC.

If Iwata is really honest about "get[ting] rid of that misunderstanding by any means", then he should be prepared to basically double the in-house development staff because seasonal/quarterly releases are not going to be enough to satisfy a hungry audience. The other option is to get the 3rd parties' A-teams moving on their platform for the first time in a decade.

But he's not, so he won't.

[Deguello]

I think Nintendo was the only one who actually treated the new E3 like it is.  They showed up to a barbecue wearing a t-shirt and jeans, while most others followed suit (Capcom showed up naked).  Only a few companies showed up in tuxedos and wondered why everybody was staring at them.

I know it's hard to believe but E3 just isn't that important anymore.  I know it has a long history as a business meeting and then a gamer's mecca and then back to a business meeting, but the times, they are a-changin'. 

Its a strange sort of cognitive dissonance where you hold two ideas in your head:

1. E3 is the big gamer's meeting where all the guns will go off and companies should structure their developments and announcements around it.
2. Companies are starting to downplay E3's importance and don't feel compelled to bust out all their stops for it, treating it like it's "just another show"

When these ideas clash you will have a reaction, such as anger or sadness.  Blame will be ascribed, and many felt Nintendo was to blame for E3's "lower-key" atmosphere, despite the obvious realities on the ground.  And so, like good social businessmen, they apologized for not meeting expectations, even though they were expectations that they didn't engender.  It happens all the time like when Japanese baseball players get injured and apologized for the fans for getting injured.

[redgiemental]

Someone did promise that they would be something for core gamers to look out for at E3 though remember?

What did we get?

And no Dasmos AC is not a traditional game in my opinion.

[Deguello]

Methinks dissatisfaction with the platform is slightly more real than some fans thought. Hi Deg.

Oh hey BigJim.   Yeah.  Hey.  (what?)

The dissatisfaction is not with the platform but with the E3 show.  If you'll mosey over to Amazon you'll see the 360 rated with 3 and 1/2 stars and the Wii rated 4 and 1/2 stars.  (IMO This is the best way to measure the mass appeal and thoughts of the console).  Yes, the E3 show didn't have much red meat for the base, but that's not an indicator that the red meat does not exist.

[EasyCure]

So expecting Nintendo to maybe have one traditional game was silly? They've been making them for over 20 years.

Animal Crossing.

BANG! A TRADITIONAL GAME!

Is this all you ever wanted? No.

so much WIN in this post... so much. I completely agree with you, i think all the people complaining about e3 are just silly and will never be pleased.

Just because you hear rumors of a Kid Icarus revival doesnt mean nintendo's working on it.

Why would you just assume Retro was doing another FPS title? That statement alone shows the "i want more of the same" attitude with some of the internets hardcore/traditional/veteran gamers. They've been with nintendo for yoears and scrapped other projects just to make the Prime series for you, and instead of letting them try something new and flourish into a a 2nd party that can be put in charge of any type of game should nintendo ask of them, you want them to keep putting out FPS/FPA's...wow, thats stupid.

And no Dasmos AC is not a traditional game in [bmy[/b]opinion.

Thats exactly why you shouldn't of got your hopes up. Its really your own fault because you knew what you wanted nintendo to show YOU but nintendo had plans to show stuff for everyone (like they always do). Just because you think Animal Crossing isn't a traditional game, some people do. Just like some people think that games like Halo are casual games because they're mainstream games for the "traditional" audience.

edit:I think Bustin I share a similar meat lust.

*ahem* LOL

*i feel like i'm pickin on you Redgiemental, but i'm not

[Deguello]

Someone did promise that they would be something for core gamers to look out for at E3 though remember?

What did we get?

And no Dasmos AC is not a traditional game in my opinion.

I certainly remember Animal Crossing being treated as a "traditional game" in 2002.  In fact it was a pretty big hit on the hardcore internet and it sold a million copies just in the US.  Oh but that's right, that was before the Great Definition War that started in 2004 and still hasn't ended.

[BigJim]

Methinks dissatisfaction with the platform is slightly more real than some fans thought. Hi Deg.

Oh hey BigJim.   Yeah.  Hey.  (what?)

The dissatisfaction is not with the platform but with the E3 show.  If you'll mosey over to Amazon you'll see the 360 rated with 3 and 1/2 stars and the Wii rated 4 and 1/2 stars.  (IMO This is the best way to measure the mass appeal and thoughts of the console).  Yes, the E3 show didn't have much red meat for the base, but that's not an indicator that the red meat does not exist.

Yep, the headline and primary apology referred to E3, but the apology also refers to the misunderstanding that Nintendo ignores core gamers. And we/they know that existed before E3. E3 was just the latest anecdote. So yes, there is dissatisfaction with the platform, or else there's no reason to believe this would have gotten blown up quite so much.

[Deguello]

It got blown up because things GET blown up on the internet.

Thing is I heard the exact same "dissatisfaction" and "worry" that the DS would become the "Nintendogs" machine.  It is not merely working on core games that hardcore demand and stamp their feet over.  They want it to the exclusion of anything else, and they want to be "listened to."  The problem, as with the Diablo III announcement and sequential petition (nearly up to 7000!  What in the world will Blizzard ever do?!), that the hardcore never agree with each other over what they want and sometimes request very odd and complex things, like, say... 2D Castlevania on consoles.

I'll be writing my first Staff Blog post about identifying one of these creatures so you can be prepared if you ever see one in the wild.

[redgiemental]

Thats why I said in my opinion. I know some people think of it as such but I've never felt it did. If you're excited about Animal Crossing good for you.

I'll also drop in that in 2002 not only was Animal Crossing released, but Nintendo also published Metroid Prime, Super Mario Sunshine and Eternal Darkness during the second half of 2002 contrasting to this year of just Animal Crossing as the big title.

I'm actually looking forward to Warioland SHAKE but I still feel the line up for this year is a little poor.

The meat joke was somewhat intended it's ok Easycure.

EDIT: I'm fine with releasing games for other audiences Deguello but they've done it to the detriment of what a large proportion of their older audience wants

I know I'm probably whining in all reality but its my opinion on the matter.

[BigJim]

It is not merely working on core games that hardcore demand and stamp their feet over.  They want it to the exclusion of anything else

For those few that do blame the "softcore games" (if you will) for the problem, I agree that is misdirected, and it is not them who I refer to as I don't think those few people, in actuality, amount to great numbers either. But I don't think it is they alone who Nintendo's apologizing to or else, as I said, it wouldn't have gotten this blown up. The number of dissatisfied people are greater than just those few.

So long as the hardcore is amply supplied, I'd wager the vast majority of dissatisfied people don't care what other projects Nintendo does, including many of those that currently blame the "softcore games" for lack of a better understanding of the issue.

the hardcore never agree with each other over what they want

Quite true, the hardcore audience wants a lot of different things. Hence doubling the development teams or getting 3rd parties' A-teams on board for real, as I suggested.

[Morari]

I'll also drop in that in 2002 not only was Animal Crossing released, but Nintendo also published Metroid Prime, Super Mario Sunshine and Eternal Darkness during the second half of 2002 contrasting to this year of just Animal Crossing as the big title.

Eternal Darkness II would have been the best announcement conceivable! I'm the only veteran gamer happy with Animal Crossing though, I suppose. Really though, if Nintendo wants to continue to reuse their IPs, then they should start bringing some of those handheld games over onto the Wii. I wouldn't mind Nintendogs: Wii or Pokemon: True Console RPG at all.

[EasyCure]

that post feels less internet fanboyish, so there's no need to pick it apart.

Oh and for the record i'm not excited about AC. i got burned out on it with both the GC and DS versions, real-time gaming is tough when you have a busy life.

I wasn't dissapointed at e3 however, because i wasn't expecting anything. Between just not wanting to get my hopes up and feel crushed/abandoned and knowing nintendos new record of not announcing anything until its close to release i just knew better to not hype up this new, lower key e3.

If AC turns out to really be the only thing nintendo has for the holiday, then yeah that kinda sucks cuz i know i won't get it but i'm sure there'll be some 3rd party game that will get my attention and money. If not there's still a ton of good stuff out there i don't own yet or havent finished to completion

[Kairon]

There's obviously been some reprioritization gone on there and not in "core gamers" favour.

Actually, the reprioritization is not against gamers, it's against E3.

Not necessarily looking for MArio or Zelda just something with objectives/missions/levels what I would define as a traditional game.

There are lots of traditional games for the Wii coming out this fall.

[Ian Sane]

What did I honestly expect from E3?  Well I expected Nintendo to really focus on some really lame non-games I wouldn't be interested in.  But I expected some balance.  Last year it was disappointing that Wii Fit was pretty much the only new thing announced but there were big core games there too.  We just knew about them already so it wasn't that exciting.  But they were there and we knew that there were some games coming out later in the year for the core gamer.  I expected more balance than what I saw from Nintendo.  I expected a casual focus but not THIS much of one.  I expected to find out about more core games due later this year than one.  Right now I'm totally in the dark about what the hell Nintendo has planned for Christmas.  Right now it sounds like just Animal Crossing.  Am I actually in the dark or am I just assuming there's more because what I know about is so disappointing?  Also Reggie said we've have something to get excited about.  Do I have to assume he's always lying?  It wasn't some website creating a rumour it was a Nintendo exec misleading us.

I like how Iwata is apologizing.  I don't think Nintendo expected this backlash.  You don't go out there and bomb with a big grin on your face unless you're completely oblivious about it.  The problem is again he's just mentioning the franchises.  There's that assumption that the old group just wants sequels.  No we don't.  That's not a real effort.  That's scraps.  We want sequels but we also want new stuff.  We want to see that Nintendo actually still wants to make core gamer games.  When all the creative energy is dedicated to non-games it suggests that that's all Nintendo really wants to do and everything else is a token effort to keep the old market from leaving.  Iwata is apologizing but doesn't realize exactly what he's apologizing for.  It is more than just an E3 snub.

[NWR_Lindy]

I'll be writing my first Staff Blog post about identifying one of these creatures so you can be prepared if you ever see one in the wild.

While you're at it, write that Drawn to Life review too.  ;-)

[redgiemental]

I think Ian summed up how I feel better than I could myself actually. It's not just about E3.

I know I posted this in another thread but I think it's very relevant here.
"You have seen the extent of Nintendo's 2008 holiday line-up,"
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=200316

I know public statement haven't always been reliable from Nintendo Executives but I don't see any reason to lie to make things look worse.

[Kairon]

Last year it was disappointing that Wii Fit was pretty much the only new thing announced but there were big core games there too.  We just knew about them already so it wasn't that exciting.  But they were there and we knew that there were some games coming out later in the year for the core gamer.  I expected more balance than what I saw from Nintendo.

If you expected Balance then you weren't paying attention this past year. Between E3 07 and E3 08 Nintendo released Mario Strikers Charged, Battallion Wars Wii, Metroid Prime, Mario Galaxy, Phantom Hourglass, Mario Kart, Smash, and so much more. Last year, Nintendo threw "balance" to the wind and shot all their traditional teams into cooldown. Nintendo's 2008 line-up reflects just how much Nintendo's 2007 threw their development timelines totally off-balance.

Right now I'm totally in the dark about what the hell Nintendo has planned for Christmas.  Right now it sounds like just Animal Crossing.  Am I actually in the dark or am I just assuming there's more because what I know about is so disappointing?

EVERYONE is in the dark. EVERYONE is assuming that Nintendo's "Mario & Zelda" teams are actually working and not just sitting there twiddling their thumbs.

Also Reggie said we've have something to get excited about.  Do I have to assume he's always lying?

Yes. He started as PR for chrissake. Don't put him, or Iwata, or Miyamoto, on a pedestal. Never forget that Iwata promised us Smash Brothers at launch. *shakes fist*