Author Topic: So...the Dark Knight?  (Read 84362 times)

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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #250 on: January 30, 2009, 06:13:45 PM »
If they're smart, they won't make a 3rd (unless they're greedy).  Let this film live on as a legend for next decade or so.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #251 on: January 30, 2009, 06:17:03 PM »
It's too early for Robin to be int he film.  If Batman is still coming in to his own identity, he can't take on a Robin.  He at least needs a real batcave.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #252 on: January 30, 2009, 06:18:00 PM »
Less armor, more Adam West Chest.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #253 on: January 30, 2009, 06:55:34 PM »
Christ Nolan, etc will definitely take their time to make it, unlike all the other franchises out there.

Matrix 2 & 3, Pirates 2 & 3, and even Back to the Future 2 & 3 were made back to back and were hence rushed. X-Men 3 changed directors (from Bryan Singer to Brett "I like to think I can make movies" Ratner), Spiderman 3 was waaay too campy, and Shrek totally lost its identity from a smart parody to spot-that-pop-culture-spoof in the vein of Date Movie etc.

The way the tone changed so dramatically from Batman Begins to Dark Knight can never really be repeated when Batman 3 comes out.

All the action scenes were done for real! - the hospital blow up (that's why Joker's reaction is totally genuine!), the tumbler and batpod chases, the HK building jump, the truck flipping over - and that makes TDK something really special. Batman 3 is definitely going to be good :D

Yes! The biggest reason I love the Nolan Batman films is because they take a fantastic concept and apply it into the real world and make it believable (even if it does limit some potential). The Joker's plan to blow up the boat was extremely twisted and could happen in the real world.

James Rolfe (aka "The Angry Videogame Nerd") did a review of all the Batman films up to Dark Knight for Spike TV. Here's what I find funny; when he discusses the old Batman movie serials from the 40s, the 60s Batman TV series and film and the 80s and 90s Batman movies he tells people to look at them as they were intended to be (the 60s Batman as a campy comedic look at Batman, the Burton films as stylized comic book films and the Schumacker films as B-movie comedies) and not to judge them with today's standards. Yet when he gets to "Batman Begins" he bashes it, calls it the most overrated film ever and wonders if Warner Bros. intoxicated the audience with gas in order to get rave reviews.

Here are his issues:
- The fight scenes were badly shot: I can't argue this, but I was able to forgive it because the movie is about story and character development and not about action sequences.

- The Batmobile was ugly: True, but I saw it as more of a tank, and in "The Dark Knight" it proved vital. To me, its more important that the Batmobile is useful to Batman than how cool it is.

- The choice of Ra's Algul and Scarecrow as the main villains: James complains that they were rather uninteresting and that  in Scarecrow's case, poorly misused (its his favorite villain and didn't like how he was treated). To me, this was Batman's film. Had they started with the Joker right away the audience's attention would have been divided between Batman and The Joker. In fact, people talk more about The Joker in "Dark Knight" than any of the other characters. Since this film was made in order to re-invigorate Batman as a character having another high profile villain would have disrupted the story.

Not to mention that having Ra's Algul as both Bruce's mentor and Batman's villain was a really good choice and adds tension and development to the story.

Finally, I thought the development of Scarecrow was great. Its true that he didn't appear in costume till the end of the film and that was briefly. But just because he wasn't is costume it didn't mean he wasn't Scarecrow. Its interesting seeing villains as normal men, and see them evolve into the evil masterminds we see in the stories.

- The story: Jame's complain with the story was that it focused too much on Bruce's backstory (saying that this was already done in the first Batman movie) and felt pretentious, forgetting the fact that this is essentially about a man who wears a Bat costume.

What I find ironic is that when dealing with the other Batman films he tells people to look at them as they were intended to be, yet fails to do this with the new Batman films.

To me, the Nolan films are about developing Batman as a human being first, a hero second. In order for Batman to be taken serious as a character after the disastrous "Batman and Robin" Nolan NEEDED to re-start the franchise and focus on Batman the man. Yes, we know that the reason Bruce became Batman was because he saw his parents being killed. But why can't this be its own story? We have been told that this event plays a very significant role in Batman's life. Why can we see how it truly impacted Bruce? Why can't we see what happened after these events happened? Why can't we see how this affected Bruce emotionally?

When I saw the film I was stunned that we see more of Bruce Wayne and less of Batman, and I thought it was a great thing. Many superhero movies focus very little on the character and more on the hero. This can be annoying, especially when they try to impose some emotion into the character (Spider-Man). The Nolan films, however, treat its characters as human beings, especially Batman who is really an emotional disturbed being that might be crazier than the villains he fights.

True, "BB" was a bit pretentious, but has James seen "The Hulk" (the first one)? Now THAT was a movie that was trying too hard to be serious despite its concept (guy turns into big green monster and goes on a rampage). Also, the last Batman film adventure made him look even more ridiculous than the 60s Batman. It was a sour memory that if it wasn't for the great comics and cartoons it would have killed Batman on the spot. So can you blame Nolan for trying to make Batman serious and enjoyable once more? Also, it did get overhyped, but once more, can you blame people for being happy that Batman's return to the screen was not only good, it was great?

Its like you have a kid who does horribly in school. Wouldn't you be extremely happy if your kid went from the worst student ever to honor roll child in less than a year? That's what happened with Batman Begins, it was a great vision of the hero and it worked.

OK, now for the tl:dr version: James is complaining that "Batman Begins" was pretentious, focused too much on Batman's origins, focused on B-list villains, and had poor action sequences. The thing is that he tells people to look at the other Batman films as they were meant to be. So Batman Begins should be seen as a real interpretation of the mythos by focusing on Batman the man, and its one of the many ways the Dark Knight has been envisioned ever since his conception.
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Offline Maverick

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #254 on: January 30, 2009, 07:55:21 PM »
I think Mr. Rolfe should focus more on making videos that are actually funny before he thinks he can be a credible critic of the best Batman products since TAS.

He's still better than That Guy With The Glasses though.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #255 on: January 30, 2009, 08:13:48 PM »
Quote
Now THAT was a movie that was trying too hard to be serious despite its concept (guy turns into big green monster and goes on a rampage).

Ang Lee's The Hulk is a better movie then BB. Oh no I DIDN'T.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #256 on: January 30, 2009, 08:23:45 PM »
Quote
Now THAT was a movie that was trying too hard to be serious despite its concept (guy turns into big green monster and goes on a rampage).

Ang Lee's The Hulk is a better movie then BB. Oh no I DIDN'T.

Don't care. The new Hulk movie was MUCH better.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #257 on: January 30, 2009, 08:29:35 PM »
Quote
Now THAT was a movie that was trying too hard to be serious despite its concept (guy turns into big green monster and goes on a rampage).

Ang Lee's The Hulk is a better movie then BB. Oh no I DIDN'T.

Don't care. The new Hulk movie was MUCH better.

Don't care that you don't care. ;)
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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #258 on: January 30, 2009, 08:34:17 PM »
Quote
Now THAT was a movie that was trying too hard to be serious despite its concept (guy turns into big green monster and goes on a rampage).

Ang Lee's The Hulk is a better movie then BB. Oh no I DIDN'T.

Don't care. The new Hulk movie was MUCH better.

Don't care that you don't care. ;)

I don't care that you don't care that I don't care, SO THERE! :p

But in all seriousness, Ang Lee did try the same character development as in BB and TDK. The problem was that it wasn't as captivating as Batman's, because the Hulk is far more straightforward than Batman. The comic book panel effect didn't help either. I admire the effort, but felt more annoying than enthralling.

The new Hulk movie was much more balanced (even if the love story wasn't as good) and thus a better effort. And Tony Stark appearing in the film helped A LOT.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #259 on: January 31, 2009, 03:20:19 AM »
If we took the third Batman film as the third year of Batman, that is the year that Dick Grayson is adopted in most continuities.  I think an interesting story could be told with the Robin origin story without actually having him become robin or don the costume.

Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #260 on: January 31, 2009, 11:30:36 PM »
Honestly there are people that like Hulk? The cinematography was top notch, and so was the CGI - but everything else...was absolute crap.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #261 on: February 01, 2009, 12:17:45 AM »
Honestly there are people that like Hulk? The cinematography was top notch, and so was the CGI - but everything else...was absolute crap.

Which version? The Ang Lee version or the 2008 version?
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #262 on: February 01, 2009, 09:12:23 AM »
Actually the next movie is the PERFECT time to re-do Robin. 

We have basically had Batman: Year One
                                Batman: Vs. The Joker (Year 2)

The next movie needs to either be about Batman's weakness for a beautiful villain named Catwoman...or about Robin.
Personally, I would jump in time to with the next Batman movie so that it isn't right after The Dark Knight Returns, that it is 2-5 years later.  Batman is more established with his identity he has gone underground. 

I would love to see a very serious take on Robin, and Bruce Wayne as a "broken" or dysfunctional father figure for a young boy hurting.  (He actually doesn't have to be Robin in this movie.)  Balance that with Bruce falling in love with both Selina Kyle and Catwoman and you have a pretty interesting movie juggling Batman the man, Bruce Wayne the father, and Bruce Wayne the man.

Offline EasyCure

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #263 on: February 01, 2009, 02:01:36 PM »
just wanted to chime in and say that my friends 4 year old son is the cutest thing ever when he does his impression of the joker and says "why so sewious!"
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #264 on: February 01, 2009, 10:47:44 PM »
pap64 is spot on. I too saw the angry video game nerds review on batman, and thought his review was just too biased towards Burton's Batman. To really enjoy a movie you have to do two divergent things that makes little sense. Forget any other movie was ever made before it, and also try to see every movie that was ever made before it. Sounds strange right?
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #265 on: February 01, 2009, 11:04:56 PM »
Actually the next movie is the PERFECT time to re-do Robin. 

We have basically had Batman: Year One
                                Batman: Vs. The Joker (Year 2)

The next movie needs to either be about Batman's weakness for a beautiful villain named Catwoman...or about Robin.
Personally, I would jump in time to with the next Batman movie so that it isn't right after The Dark Knight Returns, that it is 2-5 years later.  Batman is more established with his identity he has gone underground. 

I would love to see a very serious take on Robin, and Bruce Wayne as a "broken" or dysfunctional father figure for a young boy hurting.  (He actually doesn't have to be Robin in this movie.)  Balance that with Bruce falling in love with both Selina Kyle and Catwoman and you have a pretty interesting movie juggling Batman the man, Bruce Wayne the father, and Bruce Wayne the man.

If there's a jump like that, then I could really see Robin in the next film.  However, I'd rather see Batman fully become established in a movie, than for the story to just cut to that point.  Then again, maybe that's just me.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #266 on: February 02, 2009, 01:07:28 AM »
Batman is fully established at the end of the Dark Knight. He faced his greatest villian and survived. He knows he can't quit and he has no reason to. Rachel is dead and his "successor" turned into Two Face. Gotham needs Batman and Batman needs Gotham.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #267 on: February 02, 2009, 01:13:20 AM »
pap64 is spot on. I too saw the angry video game nerds review on batman, and thought his review was just too biased towards Burton's Batman. To really enjoy a movie you have to do two divergent things that makes little sense. Forget any other movie was ever made before it, and also try to see every movie that was ever made before it. Sounds strange right?

I think both have their bright spots. Personally I am not too thrilled about Nolan's more realistic take on Batman, I don't necessarily want it corny but I'd love to see some of the more supernatural villains make an appearance even if they are of the more "evil" variety then the Burton take on them. A serious Robin shouldn't be too hard to do, Batman: Animated Series pulled him off quite well.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #268 on: February 02, 2009, 03:38:10 AM »
on the other hand as realistic as Nolan's movies are..it is not totally out of the question that something fantastic happens. Anyone seen the Prestige?
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #269 on: February 02, 2009, 03:45:55 AM »
on the other hand as realistic as Nolan's movies are..it is not totally out of the question that something fantastic happens. Anyone seen the Prestige?

Loved that movie, and you do have a point. I'd love to see what Nolan could do with a supernatural character like Mr. Freeze, he could almost give you nightmares if done right.
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #270 on: February 02, 2009, 04:16:02 PM »
Honestly there are people that like Hulk? The cinematography was top notch, and so was the CGI - but everything else...was absolute crap.

Which version? The Ang Lee version or the 2008 version?
I'm referring to the Ang Lee crapfest. I loved the comic strip effect, and the Hulk until halfway into the movie, but the story, and the way that they bastardized the Hulk's true origin, in order to make it seem "more realistic" was just retarded.
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Offline Caliban

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #271 on: February 02, 2009, 06:53:41 PM »

Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #272 on: February 02, 2009, 08:39:33 PM »
Christian Bale flips out on T4 set.

So he flipped out because someone was messing around while he was shooting a scene?
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #273 on: February 02, 2009, 10:30:38 PM »
Christian Bale flips out on T4 set.

LOL. Professionalism at it's best. That's some justifiable anger there.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: So...the Dark Knight?
« Reply #274 on: February 02, 2009, 11:27:53 PM »
Christian Bale flips out on T4 set.

LOL. Professionalism at it's best. That's some justifiable anger there.

I was honestly expecting a fight. He was REALLY pissed at the guy.
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