Topic: Nintendo should pull out of the consol race.

[Don'tHate742]

To me, I don't really care if Nintendo ends up on top. As long as they keep making the best games ever, they can do what ever they want. I do want them to have there own system though.

[theasylumofthedamned]

1. Nintnedo has made the largest profits for 2002
2. Nintendo, even with all the anti-kiddie sentiment, still outdoes the Xbox, geared towards anti-kidide gamers
3. Nintendo, though nowhrere near the PS2's popularity, arguably has the most fun games ever.

Sure, Nintendo could pull outy of the console race... but why?

[Sean]

Is this a late April Fools joke?

[Joshums]

The idea makes some sense, but it wouldn't be a wise business decision.  Although profits are declining, they are still making a decent sized profit off gamecube sales, but the biggest issue is ethics.  Nintendo has already made two unethical marketing decisions in the past few years:  introducing the GBA SP less than two years after introducing the GBA, and the shoddy design of the GameCube.  Pulling the plug on the GameCube at this point would be an extremely unethical thing to do, and it would tarnish Nintendo's brand image.  The wiser thing to do would be to wait for the next generation of consoles to emerge before it pull the plug on consoles.

[PIAC]

what was unethical about the design about the gamecube? also, i dont think listening to overwhelming public demand for a light up gameboy screen is being unethical..

[Joshums]

It seems that an overwhelming number of gamecube owners are complaining about their cubes malfunctioning and/or no longer working properly at all, which disturbs me.  It would be unethical if these problems are the result of a design flaw and if they knew about it, but I don't know whether or not this is the case.  The answer to a demand for a light up GBA screen is not unethical, but what they did was simply redesign a product that was already on the market with minimum improvements while the product was still in the early growth stage of the product life cycle.  Such product redesigns usually borderline as unethical, that is, it is debatable.

[PIAC]

overwhelming number? erm... where also nintedo have like the best customer service like ever, they replace your gamecube without a worry, even after the warrenty has expired a few times (well 100% of the time that i have heard).

hrm, you may find it unethical but i for one dont, given the incredable sales of the SP the general public doesn't either, also its bringing new people into the world of hand held gaming. IMO if they were going to be unethical about the SP release, it would have had hardware upgrades that would make the current GBA obsolete, hence FORCING people to upgrade to the newer GameBoy to play new games.

[Trippy Pancakes]

An overwhelming number of gamecube owners complain about malfunctioning hardware ?  Overwhelming ??  Sigh..

And bringing out an improved version of the gameboy advance is unethical ?  Prior to the inception of the gameboy SP you were happy with the old gameboy (I'm assuming this because you say the SP offered minimum improvements, so you personally must have had no problem seeing the screen with the original gameboy advance).

Then Nintendo releases the SP.  A product that you are not forced to purchase.  A product that does not make any game released for the prior gameboy advance obsolete.  It will affect you in no way.   And it makes Nintendo unethical (borderline unethical, you say) ?  

I much much prefer using the gameboy SP over the earlier model.  It's a big improvement.  Yes, it's basically the same thing but with aesthetic and functional improvements.   Worth every penny.  I'd much rather have the option to purchase an improved model rather than Nintendo not releasing it because they fear they may offend the existing user base (which really has nothing to lose just because the SP is released).

Please choose your words better (or please provide further explanation) because your choice of 'overwhelming' and 'unethical' are way out of line.

[NiteWalker]

I personally  think Nintendo is in the race for good.  I mean, come on they practically started the whole gaming scene after the 80's crash.  Nintendo's ONLY downfall is the fact that they are geared towards gamers and not the general public.  Meaning if you are already a gamer you know what to expect from Nintendo; quality first and second party games.  If, however, you are a casual gamer it might be a bit harder to respect some of Nintendo's own offerings.  Super Mario Sunshine would probably be dismissed as a kid's game, which it is not entirely.  Also the new Zelda.  I grew up on games and I have the fondest memories from my snes days.  I hope to look back and feel the same from Gamecube.  I am by no means biased; I own a PS2 and soon an Xbox when Soul Caliber II comes out(Spawn's the man!).  I just feel it would be an unwise decision for Nintendo to pull out.  If people won't buy Nintendo's games or systems now, why would they buy them games on other systems?  Besides, Nintendo has the most comfortable controller on the market. >_<  

[Koopa Troopa]

Quote
Although profits are declining, they are still making a decent sized profit off gamecube sales, but the biggest issue is ethics. Nintendo has already made two unethical marketing decisions in the past few years: introducing the GBA SP less than two years after introducing the GBA, and the shoddy design of the GameCube. Pulling the plug on the GameCube at this point would be an extremely unethical thing to do, and it would tarnish Nintendo's brand image. The wiser thing to do would be to wait for the next generation of consoles to emerge before it pull the plug on consoles.

It seems that an overwhelming number of gamecube owners are complaining about their cubes malfunctioning and/or no longer working properly at all, which disturbs me. It would be unethical if these problems are the result of a design flaw and if they knew about it, but I don't know whether or not this is the case. The answer to a demand for a light up GBA screen is not unethical, but what they did was simply redesign a product that was already on the market with minimum improvements while the product was still in the early growth stage of the product life cycle. Such product redesigns usually borderline as unethical, that is, it is debatable.

Really? An overwhelming number? That sounds like fan-boy BS to me. I've seen, at the most, ten complaints here at PGC. I myself own two GameCubes, both of which have never malfunctioned in ANY way. I have, however, had both my PS2's break, the first one irreparably, which is why I had to get a second.

You speak of ethics, but it is quite apparent you haven't any idea what it really means.

[KatDaddy]

Quote
Originally posted by: nonjagged
Xbox creators are fascinated with graphics and in the process they lose framerates. Even with the aid of HDD cache on Xbox, Metroid Prime would be chugger.

Ok...I own an Xbox and a Gamecube, and I'll try to not sound like a "fanboy" of either.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Metroid Prime would be chugger."  Are you stating that the performance wouldn't be as good?  Absolutely false.  The Xbox could handle it easily.  Have you seen some of the latest titles that have been released for the Xbox?  (Apex, World Racing, Tao Feng, Panzer Dragoon Orta, clips from Halo 2???  Apex and World Racing I know most of the time run at 60FPS.)

I'm not bashing or anything.  I have no reason to.  

Now, back to the main question:

There is absolutely no reason for Nintendo to pull itself from the console race.  Why would they?  They have the name recognition, the exclusivity with quite a few titles, the reputation, etc.  They have almost all of the keys.  They're just not a "super marketing powerhouse" like Sony, or a company with an endless bank account like Microsoft.

Plus, having 3 major manufacturers of consoles is awesome for the customers.  Especially the customers that have more than one console.  It quells complacency.  The three are always trying to "one-up" the competition's best offerings, which is great for us.  

[theasylumofthedamned]

"There is absolutely no reason for Nintendo to pull itself from the console race. Why would they? They have the name recognition, the exclusivity with quite a few titles, the reputation, etc. They have almost all of the keys. They're just not a "super marketing powerhouse" like Sony, or a company with an endless bank account like Microsoft."

Well said. I don't mean to be an Xbox basher when I say this, but If you went around your local mall with a red cap with a large letter M on it, people would look and point and say "Look, he;s got a MArio cap on!", as opposed to getting a stunningly-exact replica of a Halo Marines helmet design on your cap, people may not even notice. And I'll say I'm not bashing the Xbox again in case you missed the first part. The only reason why people like the PS2, IMESHO, is because it's got all the "mainstream" games, such as GTA and Kingdom Hearts. The only reason why people like the Cube, IMESHO, is becuase we get more uber-swheetness per game, and finally, IMESO again, Xbox fans like the Xbox because you can kill and mangle tons of people in massive bloodbaths in awesome graphics. Then again, maybe it's just me...

And I'll say it again. I'm not bashing Xbox, and if I am, I don't mean to.

[ThePerm]

in my extremely super high opinion?

[theasylumofthedamned]

In my ever-so-humble opinion.

[PIAC]

i thought it was In My Engrish Super Happy Opinion number 1!

[nonjagged]

There is 1 serious, possibly 2 serious issues I think no one raised.

1) Nintendo would never port any of their franchises to a cracked platform like psx or xbox. Xbox hardware has now been cracked where someone is running Linux off it.

2) Nintendo would never take its franchises online especially with the BigBrother infrastructure of Microsofts Xbox Live where Microsoft could molester Nintendo's Innovative code.

3) Nintendo porting its franchises to multi-media set-top-boxes is a braindead idea because Nintendo have invested so much time and $$$ into the Gamecube Hardware.

Lack of Gamecube sales or userbase only proves that there is so multi-platform much software saturating the market that less and less gamers are willing to buy any title and thats not even touching up on the piracy issue (cheaper games) on the other platforms.

Its quite possible that only 5-10 MIL gamers out their globally are pure hardcore gamers who play games only on the basis of research rather than hype and saturated marketing the non-gamecube platforms get.



2003 = The Year of the Fund Q & Triforce

[PIAC]

well thought out post nonjagged, and i agree totally, pretty much everyone i knew that had a psx bought it for its ease to play pirated games, that was its "selling point" so to speak, and i dont like piracy at all (dont own a pirated music cd or game at all)

[thecubedcanuck]

Quote
Its quite possible that only 5-10 MIL gamers out their globally are pure hardcore gamers who play games only on the basis of research rather than hype and saturated marketing the non-gamecube platforms get.

Man I hate comments like this.

Why must so many people here think that if you dont own a Game Cube you arent a hard core gamer? That statement is just plain ludicrous.
Why cant someone who only owns a PS2 be hardcore or an X-box?
Who the hell plays games based on research anyway, many people, even hard core gamers play because its fun.

The Game cube is being out sold for one reason. The majority of gamers feel systems like the PS2 have better games, yes I said better, in their opinion the games are better.

Why cant everyone just accept this and deal with it. Play the games you like and forget about it. I know I do.

[KatDaddy]

Quote
Originally posted by: theasylumofthedamned
The only reason why people like the PS2, IMESHO, is because it's got all the "mainstream" games, such as GTA and Kingdom Hearts. The only reason why people like the Cube, IMESHO, is becuase we get more uber-swheetness per game, and finally, IMESO again, Xbox fans like the Xbox because you can kill and mangle tons of people in massive bloodbaths in awesome graphics. Then again, maybe it's just me...

I don't think you're bashing the Xbox, but I believe you're missing the point of why a lot of people buy it.  The main reason I personally bought it was the fact that the Dreamcast was discontinued, and Shenmue II was pulled from being released in the US on the DC.  Once they announced it for the Xbox, I immediately put a pre-order on an Xbox.  Once I researched the titles that were to be released, it just made sense for me.  There were a lot of games that were hyped that deserved the hype, some games that were hyped that should have never been released on any console, and some games that were hyped that still have not seen the light of day.

Since months before pre-release, the Xbox was touted as THE console to have because of the "killer apps" that would be coming out.  Unfortunately, a lot of the "killer apps" were either excessively hyped, or delayed.  There are only about 8 "absolutely killer apps" for the Xbox that I can think of (Halo, Steel Battalion, NFL Fever 2003, Morrowind, etc), some of which are not even out that were slated for a 2001 release (Brute Force, others...).

The Xbox system is very powerful, and their second wind is coming this summer/fall with releases such as Fable, Brute Force, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, True Crime :Streets of LA, MotoGP II, Return to Castle Wolfenstein:Tides of War, etc.  Even their latest releases have made some leaps in graphic quality/gameplay.  Apex and World Racing are 2 awesome racing titles that have to be seen to be believed, especially while playing on an HDTV and listening to the 5.1 Dolby Digital/DTS.  However, it seems that the Xbox has trouble hyping the crap out of some titles that just turn into mediocre ordeals.

Here's the way I see it:  PS2 will continue to pump out tons of games, good or not.  Like was said above, they appeal to the mainstream gamer that just wants tons of available titles.  The Xbox will continue to mainly appeal to the older gamer.  Proof of this is the fact that there's really only one kids' title out of all the titles that have been developed, or are in development.  And it was Shrek, and it sucks.  

The Gamecube concept, I guess, really has not changed too much.  However, like I've stated before, I'm far from a Nintendo spokesperson.  It seems that Nintendo is content to retain their present customer base by providing new titles within existing franchaises (Mario, Zelda, etc).  This way, Nintendo can retain their current customers, and chip away at the fan base of other consoles.  This is how I've come to own a Gamecube.  It also seems that Nintendo releases less "crap" on their system.  I'm not saying that they are the "king of apps", but that they release less bombs.  I think if you pick up any Gamecube title, especially 1st party titles, you can rest assured that you are at least going to get a decent game.

This is just my take on the whole situation.  I love my Xbox, and more than likely, it will continue to be my primary console.  However, my Gamecube is seeing more playtime, mainly because of Zelda:WW and Metroid Prime.  

What will hurt the Gamecube is if Xbox online really takes off.  The next 6 months will tell the tale, because in early November most of the "free" XBL memberships will expire, and the renewals or lack thereof will probably make/break XBL.  Personally, I played the crap out of XBL for the first 2-3 months, but I have not been on in the last 3 months or so.  Unless more killer apps are released before renewal, I personally will not be renewing.

Anyway, I've ranted enough.  This may not even make sense....lol.
 

[egman]

Thinking about this question a little more today, I really think what Nintendo should do is figure out a way to convince their investors that being a niche can be profitable. Really, what is the point of competing against MS and Sony since they both have a completely different battle plan? Of course being a niche it is difficult to maintain a large profit, but it's even more difficult to topple a console with a consumer base of 50 million. I truly believe that for reasons I stated earlier that Nintendo would not be served well as a 3rd party. Their fans will be spread too thinly amongst the other consoles to realize any kind of advantage as a 3rd party. They could put their support on one console, but we also still have the matter of making people care. With each passing day I feel more and more like the majority of the gaming population just does not care anymore for Nintendo's offerings. But this is not a bad thing if they can still touch base with their core users while attrackting a small number of new fans.

I'm no business mogul, but if I was Nintendo I would definately look into ways of being profitable as a niche, because frankly I see trying to compete head to head with Sony and MS will be the more difficult route.  Unless a drastic change occurs in the industry on the level of the crash of the early 80's, there's little chance they will be THE dominate force again unless they make changes to their development philosophy, which I also believe is not viable option.

[Bloodworth]

Quote
Originally posted by: KatDaddy
I think if you pick up any Gamecube title, especially 1st party titles, you can rest assured that you are at least going to get a decent game.

You have not seen the atrocities that are Driven, Darkened Skye, and The Scorpion King.

Just picking on you.  Great post.

BTW: True Crime: Streets of LA is coming to GC too.

[Hemmorrhoid]

What you people seem to ignore is that the GCN has an upcoming line up atleast as impressive as the Xbox future line up.
Im not too sure about what the Xbox has to offer, but looking at the release list, you see that Nintendo has yet to bring its UBER games.
Except Zelda and Metroid no super game has seen the light, but TOo Human, Mario 128, Zelda 2, F-Zero are all on the way.

The only thing that make Nintendo have a bad future is bad marketing.

[thecubedcanuck]

I think that a lot of hard core games miss the point.

What many hard core gamers call crappy games a lot of casual gamers truly enjoy.

Many gamers dont care about the length of a game, or the frame rate, or a deep story.

They might enjoy graphics over gameplay, gimmicks over substance and so on. I know many will say then that means that they enjoy inferior games, I agree and disagree. Its all in the eye of the beholder.

Many casual games dont want to spend 50 hours playing Zelda, they want a game that has action right out of the gate, a game that they can wrap up in the period of a rental, Timesplitters is a prime example of this style of game, so is GTA3, big reasons IMO why they sell so well.

At the end of the day nintendo is a business, a business that sells both software and hardware. I see nothing wrong with Nintendo making the style of games they make, games like Mario and Zelda will wlways keep the loyals on board. What they need to do is somehow get more games in the style of GTA and timesplitters, more games with mass appeal, be it first, second or third party.
I for one would love to see the Nintendo section have as many games as the PS2 section, this IMO would give Nintendo its best shot at regaining dominance. I dont think one or two killer games will do it, Mario 128 (I hope it kicks ass) wont be enough as Zelda wasnt enough. Mass appeal is the only answer. If Nintendo wants its numbers to rise, both in sales and profits then it must provide the best of both worlds. IMO Nintendo is the only company that can really achieve this lofty goal because of its first party titles and loyal following, they already have the hard part covered. I just dont understand why they are having so much trouble with the easy part.

[Mario]

FYI Timesplitters didnt exactly sell that well, only about 100,000 on each console, which is ok, but i mean Metroid Prime and Super Mario Sunshine, games with "no appeal" sold over a million and 1.5 million respectively in the US alone. But i agree with your argument, and yes Nintendo needs a new franchise like Grand Theft Auto in order to appeal to a much wider market. A good idea would be for Nintendo to release a huge new franchise with huge mainstream appeal (like gta3) at around the same time as a Pokemon GC, so whether your "teh mature" or "teh kiddy", Nintendo Gamecube is the console for you... or something along those lines... *shrugs shoulders*  

[Bloodworth]

Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
A good idea would be for Nintendo to release a huge new franchise with huge mainstream appeal (like gta3) at around the same time as a Pokemon GC, so whether your "teh mature" or "teh kiddy", Nintendo Gamecube is the console for you... or something along those lines... *shrugs shoulders*

Well, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Silicon Knights' next game were the one to do this.  To paraphrase Denis, the thing Eternal Darkness lacked was that mass-market appeal.  He compared it to a well-done independent movie.  So in their next game they're designing it so it will have more instant appeal while actually going significantly deeper than ED did.  Of course if Conker, Metroid, and RE couldn't shake Nintendo's image, it's unlikely that any one game will.  Image problems don't change overnight.