Topic: CHATTING DURING THE E3 PRESS CONFERENCE

[Deguello]

Yeah that was the problem KDR.  Nintendo wanted to give 3rd parties a WIIIIIDE Opening to step up with something meaty.  But instead they just shirked it and Nintendo had to show what a 3rd party reliant E3 show looks like.

[King of Twitch]

DS hasn't even hit the peak of it's cycle yet, let alone Wii.

Gamecube peaked at Pac Man Vs, this is no different

[BeautifulShy]

i know you guys are disappointed with the conference but E3 IS NOT OVER! Can you at least wait till after E3!!! GOD!

[Ian Sane]

Yeah that was the problem KDR.  Nintendo wanted to give 3rd parties a WIIIIIDE Opening to step up with something meaty.  But instead they just shirked it and Nintendo had to show what a 3rd party reliant E3 show looks like.

I don't think Nintendo really "gets" the purpose of third party games.  The great third party support they had on the NES and SNES was earned through a virtual monopoly.  Ditto with the portable third party support they have now.  It seems however that ever since they've had to earn third party support they've done a terrible job at it.  Ever since it became an issue they have failed to address it any way that the fans consider even remotely acceptable.

MS has never been number one yet both Xboxes had better third party support than the market leading Wii has.  Nintendo thought on the Cube that having third parties work on Nintendo games and getting a remake of the first MGS at the same time the PS2 got MGS3 was making an effort.  MS however goes and grabs away PS3 exclusives and gets exclusive features for them.  Sony won't allow something like Metal Slug 3 and MS is all "we'll take it".  MS gets timed exclusivity for mulitplatform games.  What does Nintendo ever get?  They had Resident Evil 4 and the PS2 port was annouced before the Cube version was even released.

I think Nintendo sees three really lame third party games and thinks it's perfectly okay.  They don't understand the concept.  Just the fact that the Wii is Gamecube 1.5 is pretty much proof of that.  That's like the number one way to completely bork third party support.

Hell the Wii is shovelware city but is the market leader.  How can Nintendo learn from that?  Right now it appears to them have having a library of crap is the way to the top.

[BeautifulShy]

Guys did you know that 3rd party developers are having their own shows at e3. Man that is a pretty good idea. That way Nintendo can focus on their own titles.

[SixthAngel]

Did you really expect earth shattering announcements?  E3 is not the event it used to be, it is small and doesn't get the attention it had in the past.  The forum goers all remember the past E3's so it is still hyped but we are just as likely to hear an earth shattering announcement in a regular press conference as E3 now.


Ian, MS gets third party support for two reasons.
1.  They basically pay for the games.  Gears of War is an excellent example and the money they frontloaded on GTA is another.  I imagine the money hats are flying at Square with the final fantasy announcement.  If you want Nintendo to not make money and think it is a giant corporate behemoth outside of gaming then they can follow this strategy.  You use MGS as an example.  Nintendo had to develop it with Silicon Knights.  Big third party games are riding on trains full of money that are given to them for porting the game, "exclusivie content" and even "timed exclusivity."
2.  Xbox is designed to be like a PC so it can get PC games easily.  The original xbox was called a pc in a box for a reason and the new one hasn't changed that drastically.  It is pretty much designed to siphon off pc developers looking for a quick buck with its incredibly similar hardware.

[KDR_11k]

Ian, they're trying to combat the perception that third parties cannot sell on Nintendo systems simply because they don't have Mario. Third parties don't like hearing that their failure was their own fault. They make crappy knock-offs that noone wants, those fail to sell and, well, game over.

The Wii is a Gamecube 1.5 because it had to be, had they tried to take the giants MS and Sony head on they'd have gotten slaughtered. The Wii's graphics are GC1.5 yet the PS3's sales are GC1.5. Guess who's happy with that. Nintendo cannot afford to outspend MS and Sony on things like graphics or third-party exclusives yet they're winning. Third party support IS increasing though it is slowly. But really, what can Nintendo do when third parties are too inept at making games that sell? Take creative control from third parties, basically creating an outsourced Nintendo game? That doesn't make them release their own games, that just makes them go for more lucrative contracts. Try to buy them off? 1. The games still won't sell and 2. MS and Sony have more money and are more willing to throw it at developers.

[mantidor]

Ian, they're trying to combat the perception that third parties cannot sell on Nintendo systems simply because they don't have Mario.

I don't think this conference helped regarding that though.

What I specially don't like is that stupid casual/hardcore division that Nintendo keeps trying to push down our throats. I really was hoping that since they participated in its creation that they would start to break it. My guess is that the promised "core" titles will be shown eventually throughout e3 like they did with Brawl, but that only gives the impression they want to hide the "core" titles from the mainstream as if they were some dirty secret, is shameful and retarded. People can enjoy brain training and mario galaxy at the same time and they don't have to be crazy nintendo fanboys like us.

And wii music sounds terrible, made truly like if it was made with 5 years old in mind only, no skill, no purpose, its just shaking the controls, lets hope I'm just misinformed.

[KDR_11k]

How did they push that division down our throats? Veteran gamers have been screaming for 1:1 sword combat for a while now and we're getting it.

[mantidor]

you are not really trying to defend them, are you? even their own damn rating system for the channel is casual/hardcore. I want games to be just games again.

[Ian Sane]

What I specially don't like is that stupid casual/hardcore division that Nintendo keeps trying to push down our throats. I really was hoping that since they participated in its creation that they would start to break it. My guess is that the promised "core" titles will be shown eventually throughout e3 like they did with Brawl, but that only gives the impression they want to hide the "core" titles from the mainstream as if they were some dirty secret, is shameful and retarded. People can enjoy brain training and mario galaxy at the same time and they don't have to be crazy nintendo fanboys like us.

Makes you wonder what it would be like had they just released the DS and the Wii and Wii Sports without drawing any attention to a new market.  Would we notice?  Guitar Hero is as popular with casuals as Wii Sports is but it is not branded as a non-game.  It is popular with gamers and non-gamers alike.  Activision does not promote it as something seperate from the rest of their products.  And when this whole non-gamer thing started people pointed to Tetris as an example of non-game.  It never was.  It was just a game that everyone liked, whether they were a serious gamer or not.

Would there be no divide if Nintendo never said anything?  Would Wii Sports have just attracted the wide audience anyway?

I think with Wii Music they are getting too focused the seperation.  There are already two very popular music games.  They really are no different then "hardcore" music games like Beatmania or DDR or Parappa the Rapper.  Guitar Hero has the same gameplay but it succeeded because by using a guitar and having popular mainstream rock songs it attracted a wider audience than any previous music game.  Wii Music assumes that even Guitar Hero is too hardcore for non-gamers which I think is outright WRONG.  Wii Music looks like it overcompensates way too much for non-gamers.  It looks like it's practically the same thing as doing air guitar to a CD.  It doesn't look like the player's input has any real effect on the game.  That's what a game is.  That's part of what the original thrill of Pong was in the first place.  Holy sh!t!  I turn this knob and this paddle on the screen moves!  That was the first real thrill I had with games.  The character on the screen did what I told it to.

I think Wii Sports would have been just as popular without the goofy presentation and simplistic design.  I think the second they made a game where you swing the remote like you swing the tennis racket they had a massive mainstream hit.  How could they not?

So much of the thrill of Wii Sports is how it feels like you're really doing something.  They expect people who liked that to like Wii Music?  Wii Music seems like the exact opposite.

[UltimatePartyBear]

Wii Music looks better in action than I imagine it sounds in print.  I'm pretty sure my mother would be more drawn to it than she was to Wii Sports, too.  It reminds me of Electroplankton in a way, but this time Nintendo's going to let us save and share our creations, and that may turn out to be the key feature.

Wii Sports Resort was the biggest surprise for me.  I was positive that there would be no sequel to Wii Sports.  I'm glad they said there's a lot more to it than they showed, because it didn't really make me want it (I'm still hoping for paintball).  I was surprised that there wasn't any mention of Nintendogs connectivity for the frisbee throwing part, too.

I have to say that Cammie really came across as rehearsed and fake, unlike Reggie.

[Flames_of_chaos]

Well it was Cammie's first E3 afterall. At least she tried not to be as boring as the Sony guy was and where was Kaz and Phil's replacement. Wii Music reminds me of Band Brothers except on the Wii.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Well it was Cammie's first E3 afterall. At least she tried not to be as boring as the Sony guy was and where was Kaz and Phil's replacement. Wii Music reminds me of Band Brothers except on the Wii.

I hated the sexist banter between the two of them. So women like throwing frisbees to dogs and men like jet skiing. Sickening.

[ShyGuy]

Maybe Cammie likes throwing frisbees to dogs and Reggie likes jet skis?

[Flames_of_chaos]

Well I saw the Capcom conference and the WHOLE THING WAS ABOUT THE LOST PLANET MOVIE WHAT THE HELL CAPCOM.

[ShyGuy]

Yeah, E3 as a whole has been a letdown. No Major suprises and Minor lulz. FF13 betrayton has sadly been the highlight of the show.

[vudu]

You only say that because you didn't see Sony's graphs.  Seriously, it's so sad to admit that it was the highlight of the show thus far.

[Dirk Temporo]

Wii Music looks better in action than I imagine it sounds in print.  I'm pretty sure my mother would be more drawn to it than she was to Wii Sports, too.  It reminds me of Electroplankton in a way, but this time Nintendo's going to let us save and share our creations, and that may turn out to be the key feature.

Except you don't "create" anything. You just mash buttons along to a song that already exists.

[Pale]

You only say that because you didn't see Sony's graphs.  Seriously, it's so sad to admit that it was the highlight of the show thus far.

I agree, Little Big Planet charts ftw.

[RABicle]

Well it was Cammie's first E3 afterall. At least she tried not to be as boring as the Sony guy was and where was Kaz and Phil's replacement. Wii Music reminds me of Band Brothers except on the Wii.

I hated the sexist banter between the two of them. So women like throwing frisbees to dogs and men like jet skiing. Sickening.

Despite this, Cammy was still much more masculine than the Anti-Reggie Microsoft rolled out.

[KDR_11k]

I think Wii Sports would have been just as popular without the goofy presentation and simplistic design.

Yeah but it was still successful with it. You make it sound like they put extra effort into making it like that. Adding HD graphics or all the gameplay features of a full sports game for each sport would have taken massive effort and added risks, namely the possibility of one or more new features being game breaking or just too clunky to implement. I mean, how do you implement the running part of baseball with the Wiimote? Do you expect people to push buttons or directions when the whole point of Wii Sports is to show you what motion controls are capable of? Do you want people to shake the Wiimote to simulate running? Doesn't that require the nunchuk and make cheating by not performing the right motions much more powerful? What about Tennis, do you want people to handle the movement controls themselves with the nunchuk or something? This is starting to sound really horrible.

[Nick DiMola]

Wii Music looks better in action than I imagine it sounds in print.  I'm pretty sure my mother would be more drawn to it than she was to Wii Sports, too.  It reminds me of Electroplankton in a way, but this time Nintendo's going to let us save and share our creations, and that may turn out to be the key feature.

Except you don't "create" anything. You just mash buttons along to a song that already exists.

Wrong, you don't even do something as simple as mash buttons in Wii Music, you just hold the remote and move it around like you ARE playing it. There is literally nothing going on.

I think Wii Sports would have been just as popular without the goofy presentation and simplistic design.

Yeah but it was still successful with it. You make it sound like they put extra effort into making it like that. Adding HD graphics or all the gameplay features of a full sports game for each sport would have taken massive effort and added risks, namely the possibility of one or more new features being game breaking or just too clunky to implement. I mean, how do you implement the running part of baseball with the Wiimote? Do you expect people to push buttons or directions when the whole point of Wii Sports is to show you what motion controls are capable of? Do you want people to shake the Wiimote to simulate running? Doesn't that require the nunchuk and make cheating by not performing the right motions much more powerful? What about Tennis, do you want people to handle the movement controls themselves with the nunchuk or something? This is starting to sound really horrible.

Nintendo could've easily added an expert mode for those games that provided for full control. That would've taken more effort and it wasn't key to delivering the points they were trying to make so they didn't bother.

[KDR_11k]

Yes you do press buttons (well, if your instrument has valves), weren't you listening? The note the buttons play are predetermined but the rhythm you press them in is still important.

[Nick DiMola]

Yes you do press buttons (well, if your instrument has valves), weren't you listening? The note the buttons play are predetermined but the rhythm you press them in is still important.

From the Nintendo Fact Sheet on Wii Music:

Wii controls immerse you in the music. You can play most of the 60-plus instruments in Wii Music using simple motions with the Wii Remote and Nunchuk controllers. Strum to play guitar, banjo and sitar. Drum to play jazz drums, congas and marching drums. Hammer away to play piano, vibraphone and marimba. Unlike most music games, Wii Music doesn’t make you use complex buttons. You only need to imitate playing the instrument.

Makes it sound to me like you don't even have to push buttons. They have been so vague on everything, who the hell knows how you play this game? It just seems really lame to me, I'll go play my real guitar if I want to make music.