Topic: Sakurai: "I had a lot more characters" in Brawl

[Adrock]

In his defense, Smash_Brother did say specifically reference the SSE so divide 400,000 by 2. Also, there were a lot of temps who worked on the game part-time which decreases that number further. On top of that, he also said "probably took over 7000 manhours" so his estimation is still correct anyway. See, nitpicking goes both ways.

Luigi Dude is right on the money with everything. Video gamers are never ever happy.

I don't mean this as an insult (just a counterpoint), but Luigi Dude also acts like almost everything 3rd parties do on other platforms is a slight against Nintendo (i.e. Castlevania on PSP). My point is that everyone is hard to please and never happy.

[EasyCure]

Competition is what breaks Smash Bros in the first place.

I thought the roster was alright, but the real let-down is how many characters are worthless in competition because of severe glitches and exploits which cripple them.

Here's a thought, just ban people from using exploit glitches.  The Smash Bros tournaments have no problem banning stages and items because they can make things unbalanced, and yet they allow people to use cheap glitches which are more unbalanced then any item is to win?

If they're going to outlaw stages and items in the name of fairness, then outlaw the glitches as well.  Is it really that hard to have a modderator watching the matches at these tournaments and if someone starts using a glitch to win, disqualify them for cheating.  Because when Brawl is played without people exploiting certain glitches, it ends up being a pretty well balanced fighter.

both QFMFT.

i haven't gotten as much play time with this SSB game as i have with melee, and i probably have the least play time amongst all of us here, but when i do get some time with the game i give it a good amount of time and i've never once had anything happen to me that seamed glitchy or have i even noticed any game mechanic that could be exploited. It's because i'm not looking for them, and because i'm not obsessed with competing. Sure it feels awesome pwning my friends if we're playing, but thats not the same as being in a tourney with strangers who want nothing but to win and will devote hours of testing out these glitches.

[Nick DiMola]

Competition is what breaks Smash Bros in the first place.

For many competition is what MAKES Smash Bros. I'm not saying either is better.

However, from the perspective of somewhat who doesn't compete but likes to play competitively, Brawl has some glitches (like Dedede's infinite grab for instance) that make the game unplayable with certain characters. Sure Melee had wavedashing and such, but nothing like that guaranteed a win. Brawl has a number of glitches that create situations where you are left powerless.

I do agree with LuigiDude though, just don't allow it. Keep a moderator around who watches the matches and disqualifies anyone who games the system like that. It seems that they could've used some better focus groups though because someone would have (and did) figure this stuff out within days. With that information, Sakurai and co could've completely eliminated these game breaking glitches.

[Peachylala]

My point is that everyone is hard to please and never happy.

Exactly what Nintendo was dealing with since Ocarina of Time.

[Smash_Brother]

I do agree with LuigiDude though, just don't allow it. Keep a moderator around who watches the matches and disqualifies anyone who games the system like that. It seems that they could've used some better focus groups though because someone would have (and did) figure this stuff out within days. With that information, Sakurai and co could've completely eliminated these game breaking glitches.

I've argued at length with tournament organizers on competitive sites: no one is willing to ban infinite grabs because they think it's too ambiguous when it comes to determining what qualifies "releasing" the player from the infinite. Not that this is a strike against the game, it just sucks that it makes 7 characters unplayable in tournaments right off the bat.

I think Brawl was more balanced than Melee but it's also more buggy than Melee.

As for the SSE, it was a colossal waste of time and resources. I don't care if it was being handled by a completely separate development team, the budget that went toward keeping that team working badly needed to be spent on extra testing.

A bug I encountered all the time while playing Brawl was Bowser's player number suicide bug. It works like this: if Bowser grabs someone and takes them over the edge with him on the last stock, the game result is dependent upon controller number.

If Bowser does this and he's player 1, he wins the match. If he does this when he's player 2, and his victim is player 1, it goes to sudden death.

I can understand some bugs and glitches not being caught in beta testing, but this is a situation which happens incredibly regularly, forcing Bowser players to change their tactics based upon which player number they are.

When a match starts, I need to pay attention to which location Bowser starts from because that determines which player # the game sees me as.

This bug is unacceptable, and it's unacceptable because I cannot fathom how it managed to slip through the cracks in beta testing. I don't know how many hours were spent by how many testers, but to suggest that no Bowser player used the Bowsercide maneuver and thought it odd that the game went to sudden death instead of giving him a win like last time is hard to imagine.

I've read about Bungie's testing "facility", and I mean that they have an entire building that was dedicated to testing Halo 3 in everything from single player to multiplayer under any and all conceivable circumstances, and this is for a console which can actually release patches and updates for its games to fix bugs post-release.

Nintendo doesn't have that kind of leeway, so why was the beta testing for what is undoubtedly one of their most popular multiplayer franchises so utterly inept?

If Sakurai had infinite time and resources with this game, the only logical conclusion was that he just didn't give a ****. I realize that he wanted to "balance the playing field" for all kinds of gamers, but that doesn't excuse overlooking game-breaking bugs, especially ones which even casual players will probably come across.

I hope the next SSB is done by someone with a little more attention to detail when it comes to testing. Sakurai was more interested in creating meaningless single player modes and minigames and other crap than he was ensuring the core gameplay was intact and bug-free.

[NWR_pap64]

The online mode should have also received more attention, and I ain't talking about the lag.

The online system is terrible. If an error occurs it automatically disconnects you and sends you back to the main menu. You can't tell when a friend is online or not. The system takes a while before it registers you and your friends. You can't tell how good a player's connection is, and if what I read is true, it appears whenever it feels like it.

What bugs me is that Brawl has been in the works since before the Wii was officially unveiled. They had the time and resources to create a more organized, cleaner and more user friendly online system.

Meanwhile, Mario Kart Wii, which likely had much less development time and came out of nowhere (and was released just as fast), had an online system which look like it was carefully planned and had far more options and was easier to use. It even offers a leaderboard and tournaments, something Sakurai refused to do in Brawl.

I think what sucks even more is that we are stuck with Brawl till the next game is released. And you know Nintendo's policy of one game per console...

[Smash_Brother]

MK had a superior online system: it's literally rev 2 of Nintendo's interconnect system whereas SSBB is rev 1, hence why it sucks so badly.

[Luigi Dude]

MK had a superior online system: it's literally rev 2 of Nintendo's interconnect system whereas SSBB is rev 1, hence why it sucks so badly.

Well this is because the guy in charge of Mario Kart, Hideki Konno, is also one of the guys in charge of Nintendo's Wifi service.  So of course Mario Kart has the much superior online when the guy behind it, is one of the guys who created Nintendo's entire Wifi service and knows the best way to make the online work.

[Adrock]

I think what sucks even more is that we are stuck with Brawl till the next game is released. And you know Nintendo's policy of one game per console...

Stuck? Aren't we being a little harsh? Brawl is still a great game. It, just like every other game (except Super Metroid), is flawed.

Also, I wouldn't call it a policy... I mean, looks at Mario Party... Still, despite Brawl's flaws, I wouldn't want another Smash Bros. game for another couple years. I can wait until Nintendo's next console for a sequel. My hope, like always, is that the next game will be leaps and bounds better than its predecessor and I think we can all agree that there's always room for improvement.

[nickmitch]

Well, there's different policies for different games.

Smash Bros/Mario Kart: One per system
Mario Party: As many as we can churn out
Pokemon: 3 per generation (MAIN SERIES RULE ONLY)

[Smash_Brother]

I've honestly put Brawl back on the shelf as of a month ago and haven't played it in around 2 months now.

The craptacular online system combined with a lack of characters I'm interested in mastering just kinda killed it for me.

[LuigiHann]

Well, there's different policies for different games.

Smash Bros/Mario Kart: One per system
Mario Party: As many as we can churn out
Pokemon: 3 per generation (MAIN SERIES RULE ONLY)

Mario Party has been more or less annual.

[nickmitch]

I don't buy those games, I wouldn't know.

I've honestly put Brawl back on the shelf as of a month ago and haven't played it in around 2 months now.

ERR0R

[Mario]

I just took part in three 192 man Brawl tournaments and it made me appreciate the game a lot more. Heaps of variety and hilarity. I think some of you are going to look really stupid as time passes and this is seen as a great classic.

[Spak-Spang]

I think what depressed me the most was how many characters could have been better, or who were crippled from Melee.

1)Luigi just seems not to be as good in Brawl.
2)Mario's Fludd attack is horrible and very annoying in game.
3)Pit with the ability to fly for up special is annoying and I really hate that power. 
4)Bowser and King Dededede, Gannondorf, are still impossibly hard to play.

Then you throw in other annoying aspects like characters they could have added to round out the character list and they didn't go for the game is disappointing. 

It is still a GREAT game, but just disappointing.  I would have loved actually more female characters to choose from...but is that an option, no.  Did Sakurai have many, many choices for other Female characters?  Yes.  Could they have added real gameplay variety...yes!!!

[Mario]

Well, a lot of people play just fine with those characters.

I think it would have been awesome if Birdo was playable, it would shoot eggs and you could jump on them and pick them up like in SMB2.

[Luigi Dude]

1)Luigi just seems not to be as good in Brawl.

What?  As a lifelong Luigi player I can easily say Luigi is better in Brawl then he was in Melee.  He plays very similar to his Melee counterpart except with some moves that are stronger now.  The only move of his that got truly weakened was his Forward Air, but not by that much and is still a very effective attack.  Not to mention Luigi's Up B in Brawl allows him to actually go forward farther which is a huge improvement for the character.

In other words, Luigi in Brawl is pretty much Melee's Luigi with some stronger moves and better recovery.  He's one of the last characters that can be called crippled.

[UltimatePartyBear]

'Tis true.  Three of Luigi's B moves are useful recovery moves while most characters only have one.  He's the only character I've managed to kill myself off the top of the screen with.

[Smash_Brother]

I vastly prefer Brawl Bowser to Melee Bowser, though I don't like the fact that he's still basically combo fodder against a skilled enough opponent.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

The very last match I played with Smash_Bro, I won!  Who'da thunk!?  No lag too!

[nickmitch]

Samus has been increasingly nerfed since the 64 game. I can't even use her now.