Topic: Sakurai: "I had a lot more characters" in Brawl

[Mikintosh]

http://www.nintendowiifanboy.com/2008/07/02/sakurai-i-had-a-lot-more-characters-

I'm betting its the ones found in the hacked code...if so, I'm not too sure I really miss seeing "Toon Sheik", whatever that would've looked like.

[nickmitch]

Oh well, it would've been nice to have a few more characters, but the roster is pretty robust as it is.

[DAaaMan64]

Simon Belmont
Mega Man
Bomberman


plz

[Mario]

I doubt it's the ones in the hacked code, they'd just be there to test things judging by the sounds of them. Besides Plusle & Minun, who would have been awesome. I think he's talking about ideas they just didn't end up making real.

[Spak-Spang]

You know...he makes it sound like he didn't have time to create his game, talking about characters he had planned and such.  Or perhaps he knows people wanted more.

Well, you had plenty of time to add more characters and such.  But in the end, you decided to take the project elsewhere...you decided to add Stickers, Create a level Mode, That Long Subspace Emissary that was horribly boring, and had some of the most stupid character/enemy design I have ever seen. 

If you are telling us the game could have been more...then it is your fault...and if you are telling us, you would have to radically change the game for a sequel and not just add characters, then I hope that someone else directs the next game, because I did not like some of the changes you added to Brawl...and would rather someone else head the team instead of continuing in your direction.

[Smash_Brother]

You know...he makes it sound like he didn't have time to create his game, talking about characters he had planned and such.  Or perhaps he knows people wanted more.

Well, you had plenty of time to add more characters and such.  But in the end, you decided to take the project elsewhere...you decided to add Stickers, Create a level Mode, That Long Subspace Emissary that was horribly boring, and had some of the most stupid character/enemy design I have ever seen. 

If you are telling us the game could have been more...then it is your fault...and if you are telling us, you would have to radically change the game for a sequel and not just add characters, then I hope that someone else directs the next game, because I did not like some of the changes you added to Brawl...and would rather someone else head the team instead of continuing in your direction.

Well said.

The numerous bugs and glitches prevalent throughout the game says to me that he badly misplaced his priorities.

[DAaaMan64]

What can I say, Sakurai is a musician and a gamer; Guitar Hero: Aerosmith pooped on his chest.

[Adrock]

The level editor had potential and I hope it makes it into the sequel when its made. It's biggest flaw, similar to the Subspace Emissary, is that the levels aren't based on the actual games.

I suppose in his defense, Sakurai made the game he wanted to make despite what fans may think now. At the same time, Smash Bros. is a game that would never exist without all of the fans of the various popular series the game is based on and pays homage to. How do you separate a game like this from all its fans? The short answer is that you can't and Sakurai, despite what he wants, has an obligation to listen to the fanbase first and foremost because there is no Smash Bros. without the fans.

[DAaaMan64]

Despite it's flaw, I still think it's the best SSB.

[Smash_Brother]

Out of curiosity, has ANYONE here played SSE more than once or gone back into it to try to beat it all on Intense or something?

I played through it once to finish it and then never even remembered that the mode was in the game ever again. I'll never understand why developers don't grasp the ratio of dev time to play time.

The SSE probably took over 7,000 combined manhours for the staff to create it, and yet it has little to no replay value.

Meanwhile, the multiplayer will be played by pros and casuals alike for the next 6 years, at least until the next SSB game comes out. You'd think that someone would look at this stark contrast and decide that focusing on the multiplayer aspect of the game is the best course of action, but no, Sakurai must have caved in to the whining of the Japanese public or something who cried for a single-player experience.

What they got was a mediocre platforming game with terrible enemy design and an incomprehensible storyline.  Sometimes, you have to ignore what the fans say and just focus on your strengths.

Halo's single player campaign was an exercise in boredom and repetition, yet it didn't matter because the real focus of Bungie's games has always been the multiplayer aspect, which has earned them fame, recognition and piles of money. Halo became a multiplayer classic, with people setting up LAN parties in order to get the full 16 players into a game.

SSB is not a single player franchise. It never was and it never will be. Any attempt to turn it into such has thus far been futile and only diverted resources away from the multiplayer which has, in both SSBM and SSBB, been left with many bugs, glitches and infinite chaingrabs as a result.

I want the next SSB director to be someone who UNDERSTANDS the fact that sometimes a multiplayer game is just a multiplayer game and doesn't need a 10 hour single player campaign to appease the people who have no friends. There are plenty of single player games out there. There's no reason to shoehorn a single player experience into a multiplayer game when it clearly doesn't need one.

[DAaaMan64]

Yes I play multiplayer SSE with my friends who aren't very good at the game but still enjoy beat-em ups.

[Spak-Spang]

The biggest problem with Subspace Emissary is that there are no really cool moments that make you want to replay it again.

Even the lackluster Adventure mode from Melee I desired to play again and again because of the ability to take Link into the Mushroom Kingdom, or do the classic Metroid escape mission with Donkey Kong...that was cool.  And fun.  Instead we got a horrible Subspace Emissary where we were not playing in the Worlds of our Nintendo Franchises and nothing seemed to fit. 

This could have been avoided by just using classic enemies through out instead of those horrible creations of his.

In the end, the Subspace Emissary although cool failed because of those facts.  I don't even do boss mode or 100 man Melee because the characters we are fighting now just suck.

[Arbok]

Out of curiosity, has ANYONE here played SSE more than once or gone back into it to try to beat it all on Intense or something?

Yes. My sister loves co-op things, and so we have actually beaten SSE on every difficult save Intense so far.... might have done Intense as well too if it weren't for Mario Kart coming along.

In the end, the Subspace Emissary although cool failed because of those facts.  I don't even do boss mode or 100 man Melee because the characters we are fighting now just suck.

Ridley sucks?

[nickmitch]

I've replayed the SSE when I was bored and didn't have too many people to play with. I was mostly just doing trophy collecting. Although, my current room mate has been playing it a lot. He's actually gotten pretty good at the game (or maybe my skills have dulled a bit).

However, outside of trophy/sticker collecting, there is really no replay value to it.

[Luigi Dude]

How many times does it have to be said, this game had over 100 people working on it.  The people who made the Subspace Emissary were different from the people who made the characters, who were different then the people who made the stages, who were different from the people who made everything else.  That's why this game had so many people working on it, so that they'd have enough people to work on all the different features of the game.

Not to mention Sakuria focused the most on the MULTIPLAYER.  Every single f*cking mode in the game except Classic has multiplayer in it.  Not to mention they added 17 new and unique characters in the game, which is the greatest increase in unique playable characters ever in a GOOD fighting game sequel.  And even if some of you argue about Wolf and Lucas, that still makes it 15 unique characters which is still the greatest increase in unique characters ever in a good fighting game sequel. 

Plus with a roaster of 39 characters, Sakurai managed to balance it very well, which is quite an accomplishment considering it's very difficult to balance games that have roasters that large.  This is why all other teams behind good fighting series only add a few new characters to each sequel because it's difficult to balance it out when you have to create new movesets for new characters as well as refining the old movesets.  So the fact that Sakurai was able to add 15 completely new movesets and refine all the old ones and still retain a decent level of balance with 39 characters is an amazing deal for a series that's only in it's THIRD installment.  Because no other high level fighting series has ever done anything like this before without taking at least 6 sequels to do it.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"refine all the old ones and still retain a decent level of balance"

disagreed.  the "medium" level (useless) characters from the last games are weaker than before.

[Spak-Spang]

How many times does it have to be said, this game had over 100 people working on it.  The people who made the Subspace Emissary were different from the people who made the characters, who were different then the people who made the stages, who were different from the people who made everything else.  That's why this game had so many people working on it, so that they'd have enough people to work on all the different features of the game.

Not to mention Sakuria focused the most on the MULTIPLAYER.  Every single f*cking mode in the game except Classic has multiplayer in it.  Not to mention they added 17 new and unique characters in the game, which is the greatest increase in unique playable characters ever in a GOOD fighting game sequel.  And even if some of you argue about Wolf and Lucas, that still makes it 15 unique characters which is still the greatest increase in unique characters ever in a good fighting game sequel. 

Plus with a roaster of 39 characters, Sakurai managed to balance it very well, which is quite an accomplishment considering it's very difficult to balance games that have roasters that large.  This is why all other teams behind good fighting series only add a few new characters to each sequel because it's difficult to balance it out when you have to create new movesets for new characters as well as refining the old movesets.  So the fact that Sakurai was able to add 15 completely new movesets and refine all the old ones and still retain a decent level of balance with 39 characters is an amazing deal for a series that's only in it's THIRD installment.  Because no other high level fighting series has ever done anything like this before without taking at least 6 sequels to do it.

Well, then Sakurai shouldn't be throwing out comments about not having enough time or that more characters could have been in the game.  HE BROUGHT UP THE ISSUE...and he didn't did it in a way that made everyone ask...then why didn't you do it.

"I had more characters planned in the game?"  Ok then where are they?  What made you drop them?  You should have said.  "There could always be more characters in the game, but I feel we have a great collection of character represented...and the next Smash Bros would not be just about adding characters, but adding more changes to the game and possibly radical changes."

Same thing but different results.

[Mikintosh]

How many times does it have to be said, this game had over 100 people working on it.  The people who made the Subspace Emissary were different from the people who made the characters, who were different then the people who made the stages, who were different from the people who made everything else.  That's why this game had so many people working on it, so that they'd have enough people to work on all the different features of the game.

Not to mention Sakuria focused the most on the MULTIPLAYER.  Every single f*cking mode in the game except Classic has multiplayer in it.  Not to mention they added 17 new and unique characters in the game, which is the greatest increase in unique playable characters ever in a GOOD fighting game sequel.  And even if some of you argue about Wolf and Lucas, that still makes it 15 unique characters which is still the greatest increase in unique characters ever in a good fighting game sequel. 

Plus with a roaster of 39 characters, Sakurai managed to balance it very well, which is quite an accomplishment considering it's very difficult to balance games that have roasters that large.  This is why all other teams behind good fighting series only add a few new characters to each sequel because it's difficult to balance it out when you have to create new movesets for new characters as well as refining the old movesets.  So the fact that Sakurai was able to add 15 completely new movesets and refine all the old ones and still retain a decent level of balance with 39 characters is an amazing deal for a series that's only in it's THIRD installment.  Because no other high level fighting series has ever done anything like this before without taking at least 6 sequels to do it.

Here here. Other than Street Fighter (and the insane Capcom vs. games), every other fighting games' roster sucks compared to Smash Bros., so I don't see why people get so vitrolic that characters didn't make the cut. It's interesting sure, but appreciate the damn product the way it is rather than the way you would have made it.

[Smash_Brother]

How many times does it have to be said, this game had over 100 people working on it.  The people who made the Subspace Emissary were different from the people who made the characters, who were different then the people who made the stages, who were different from the people who made everything else.  That's why this game had so many people working on it, so that they'd have enough people to work on all the different features of the game.

Then his skills need to be called into question because Brawl has more glitches and exploits than Melee and 64 combined.

And I mean show-stoppers, like hitting someone out of Bowser's grab mid toward+B when he goes off the edge. Bowser goes off the edge and stays there forever. You literally have to end the game.

I thought the roster was alright, but the real let-down is how many characters are worthless in competition because of severe glitches and exploits which cripple them.

[nickmitch]

Competition is what breaks Smash Bros in the first place.

[Luigi Dude]

I thought the roster was alright, but the real let-down is how many characters are worthless in competition because of severe glitches and exploits which cripple them.

Here's a thought, just ban people from using exploit glitches.  The Smash Bros tournaments have no problem banning stages and items because they can make things unbalanced, and yet they allow people to use cheap glitches which are more unbalanced then any item is to win?

If they're going to outlaw stages and items in the name of fairness, then outlaw the glitches as well.  Is it really that hard to have a modderator watching the matches at these tournaments and if someone starts using a glitch to win, disqualify them for cheating.  Because when Brawl is played without people exploiting certain glitches, it ends up being a pretty well balanced fighter.

[LuigiHann]

You guys might enjoy this quote from a Nintendo Power interview with Sakurai:

NP: What aspect of creating a video game do you enjoy the most?

Sakurai: I enjoy freely manipulating objects that are displayed on a TV screen.


Really, Sakurai haters will find a lot to ridicule in this interview. All the guy cares about is making the game fun, in the old-fashioned sense.

[Caterkiller]

Brawl is a million times more balanced than Melle ever was. And there are alot less glitchy techniques to use like wave dashing and such that require a tremendous amount of skill to learn.

Some characters are allot easier to use than others, but if I can use Donkey Kong effectively any of you should be able to use anyone. I went to Anime Expo this past weekend, and watched the smash bros tournament with over 400 participants. There was soooo much more veriety in character choice compared to what Melle offered.

Luigi Dude is right on the money with everything. Video gamers are never ever happy.

[vudu]

I'll never understand why developers don't grasp the ratio of dev time to play time.

The SSE probably took over 7,000 combined manhours for the staff to create it, and yet it has little to no replay value.

Meanwhile, the multiplayer will be played by pros and casuals alike for the next 6 years, at least until the next SSB game comes out. You'd think that someone would look at this stark contrast and decide that focusing on the multiplayer aspect of the game is the best course of action, but no, Sakurai must have caved in to the whining of the Japanese public or something who cried for a single-player experience.

100 team members x (at least) 2 years development time x 250 work days per year x 8 hours per day = 400,000 man hours

7,000 / 400,000 = 1.75%

Yup, seems about right to me.

[nickmitch]

Math diss.