Topic: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER

[Morari]

I think you already found the issue there: High resolution. Sony and MS expect HD. Sprites look best when they are designed pixel perfect (otherwise you get scaling artifacts), with HD that's impossible since you can't even assume a certain resolution for the screen (and more pixels = more work). It costs too much to get proper sprites for HD graphics and it'll not be easy to get something that looks good at all resolutions (since details can't just be scaled algorithmically).

Computer games have managed to scale well enough to differing resolutions  for a long time now, including ones far higher than any television could ever hope to achieve. I think the reason is as simple as the perception that 2D graphics equal inferiority. It's kind of a backwards statement too, considering how well 2D games have held up in contrast to games from the N64, PSX, and Saturn. In general, 2D games have a style about them that tends to have a much better chances at timelessness (more or less), whereas 3D only lasts as long as the next "better" iteration comes along and marks it predecessor as primitive.

[Adrock]

Also, how do we go from this to this? Anime can be good, no doubt, but the art style is far inferior in this case.

This is probably a fairer comparison, but point taken.

Any kind of anime art style just doesn't seem appropriate for the series. Still, that's not going to stop me from playing and, more importantly, buying the games. While I'm more than likely going to be buying this game, I still don't really see the point of a Castlevania fighting game. Then again, Dissisia: Final Fantasy on PSP looks phenomenal. I suppose I'd just rather have a 2D game.

[Deguello]

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=25213.msg432474#msg432474

But but silks.. in THIS THREAD you said perception is shaping reality when it comes to UBISoft dumping horrible games on the Wii.

So why is it not the case here? 

Perception is shaping reality.  I'm sure the PS3 has several decent games, like the 3DO and the Jaguar, even.  But the perception that comes with being in last place and barely doing better than the GameCube and most sequels on the system selling less than their previous gen counterparts (GTAIV for instance.  Much less) gives the impression that the Ps3 has no games that the majority value.  And thus the reality that the PS3 has no games, because perception = reality.

[NWR_Lindy]

So why is it not the case here?

It's not the case here because the PS3 already has a bunch of good games.  Good PS3 games haven't stopped being released due to the alleged perception that gamers don't think they exist.  In fact, the number of good - hell, great - PS3 games is constantly increasing, regardless of any sort of negative perception on the part of the gaming public.  However, I'm guessing that a lot of people on the NWR forums don't own a PS3, so they have no reason to care or be educated about its better titles.

On the other hand, you have the Wii, which is currently getting plenty of garbage shovelware, party games, and "casual" titles, because that's what publishers believe Wii gamers want.  Now THAT is perception shaping reality.  For instance, do you think that Activision created its "Wee 1st" game label thanks to some consumer write-in campaign?  No, it's because they believe that there isn't much money to be made in hardcore games on Wii.  People on this board would surely say otherwise, yet due to publisher actions like this we're sure to see fewer hardcore games on Wii.  Activision's perception of the market has thus shaped the reality of the market.

I'm sure the PS3 has several decent games, like the 3DO and the Jaguar, even.

Congratulations, you're condescending.

most sequels on the system selling less than their previous gen counterparts (GTAIV for instance.  Much less)

GTA IV sold "much less" because the PS3 userbase is smaller than PS2.  However, in terms of tie ratio, I've read that a slightly higher percentage of PS3 owners bought GTA IV than 360 owners.  *shrug* If you can come up with another example of a sequel to a PS2 game that was some sort of disastrous failure on PS3, I'd love to hear it.

Sony has actually taken a lot of risks with their PS3 library by relying on several new IPs (Motorstorm, Resistance, Uncharted, Folklore, Eye of Judgement) to carry their flag, instead of relying on sequels like Nintendo (Mario Galaxy, Brawl, Mario Kart Wii, Metroid Prime 3) or Microsoft (Halo 3).  If Nintendo relied on Zack & Wiki, No More Heroes, and Okami, people would probably assume that the Wii had "no games of value" either.  And of course, they would be wrong.

[KDR_11k]

Computer games have managed to scale well enough to differing resolutions  for a long time now, including ones far higher than any television could ever hope to achieve.

But they weren't 2d either. Most 2d PC games still run at 640x480.

Any kind of anime art style just doesn't seem appropriate for the series.

I think the problem with that girl character is less the anime style and more the ridiculous design.

instead of relying on sequels like Nintendo (Mario Galaxy, Brawl, Mario Kart Wii, Metroid Prime 3) or Microsoft (Halo 3).  If Nintendo relied on Zack & Wiki, No More Heroes, and Okami, people would probably assume that the Wii had "no games of value" either.

Er, you completely forgot the two biggest system sellers on the Wii: Wii Sports and Wii Fit. Supposedly Carnival Games sells a lot too. Nintendo had Mario and Zelda last gen too, the difference this time is Sports and Fit.

[Mario]

Sony far from "relied" on those games, they hid them as well as they could behind the 'big' franchise games that weren't coming out for ages and ones that didn't even exist (8 days and The Getaway). In fact, they even preferred the image of having NO games to those "new IPs", with their "PS3 will sell at launch with no games" statement.

There's a big difference between a console having good, functional, playable games, and games worth $500.

[Deguello]

Congratulations, you're condescending.

However, I'm guessing that a lot of people on the NWR forums don't own a PS3, so they have no reason to care or be educated about its better titles.

Congratulations, so are you.  And besides, aren't you agreeing to the perception that THEY [the Jaguar and 3DO] had no good games by insinuating just the act of mentioning them in the same sentence as PS3 is an "insult?"

I think the problem here is that you believe the perception about the Wii and don't believe the perception about the PS3.  But it is the truth, most 360 fans cajole the PS3 for the same thing, and same with the Wii owners, both expanded and core.  The market performance of most PS3 titles has been pretty bad, which means there isn't a populist base to counter this perception.  And considering the critics and the press had it against both the Wii AND the DS ever since they were announced (I remember IGN basically saying they've given more 9.0's to PSP games than DS games.   Who cares?  Seriously) and almost dogmatic in their support for "HD systems" (they link to two to appear unbiased) its kinda hard to take critical praise as a metric too.  And hell remember that Kane and Lynch Gamespot crap?  Who says that doesn't happen more often?  Why do we slam these reviewers for taking kickbacks and then suddenly wholeheartedly accept their opinion without suspicion just because a few happen to agree this time?  And besides, these guys are TERRIBLE at predicting future classics.  Super Mario Bros. was reamed by the predominantly computer-based game reviewers.

You keep saying that "it isn't the truth" but neither is the truth about he Wii only selling shovelware.  The top sellers are not predominantly shovelware, 'family' titles, 'casual' games.  The most anticipated games aren't shovelware either.  And besides, you are using your own game values for the judgment of what is "good" or "bad" on the PS3.  The majority disagrees, therefore the majority controls the perception and... hey, guess what?  Perception = Reality.

[NWR_Lindy]

Congratulations, so are you.  And besides, aren't you agreeing to the perception that THEY [the Jaguar and 3DO] had no good games by insinuating just the act of mentioning them in the same sentence as PS3 is an "insult?"

I think comparing the PS3 to the 3DO and Jaguar is a silly (and extreme) comparison, because the PS3 isn't a commercial failure, period.  It'd be like saying the PSP has "no games" and then comparing it the the Virtual Boy.

You keep saying that "it isn't the truth" but neither is the truth about he Wii only selling shovelware.

Where did I say the Wii ONLY sells shovelware?  I said that the Wii is getting PLENTY of shovelware/family/casual games when compared to PS3 and 360, because developers believe that that's pretty much the only thing that will sell on Wii outside of Nintendo's own mega-recognized titles.  It's like the GameCube all over again.  Games that skew hardcore sell well, but developers pretty much ignore that and keep pumping out cartoony games because they don't think a hardcore title is worth the risk.

And besides, you are using your own game values for the judgment of what is "good" or "bad" on the PS3.  The majority disagrees, therefore the majority controls the perception and... hey, guess what?  Perception = Reality.

Yes, I'm judging the PS3 titles as good or bad by my standards, but I don't have wildly different tastes from any other "hardcore" gamer out there.  I've played plenty of Halo 3, CoD4, Gears of War, and Metroid Prime 3 so I can confidently say to you that, when compared to other first-person shooters/adventures on other consoles, Resistance: Fall of Man is EXCELLENT.  Just like the other games I listed for PS3...I play everything across all consoles, therefore I can give you a truly informed opinion on whether or not the PS3 has a game library featuring "games of value".  The same way that I can tell you that the DS' game releases this year have been ass compared to the PSP - because I actually buy and play PSP games.

I'd love to see a show of hands in this thread about people that actually own a PS3 and play it regularly.  I'd love to be proven wrong, but I bet that number is really low.

[Kairon]

This is...somewhat...off-topic.... I fear that the NWR disease of derailing threads has spread from the forums to the staffers.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I own 5 PS3 games I think the system is poor when it comes to exclusives, yeah you have some great multiplatform games but when it comes to exclusives, especially quality exclusives the Wii trounces it along with the 360. The PS3 is getting better though, but I cannot say I play mine all that much mainly because most of the games I can get for it are also on 360.  Even then I play my Wii more than both COMBINED. I haven't even touched many of the great Wii titles out (Heck I haven't even beat MP3 yet!).

Also we are starting to see signs of perception changing with games like Mad World and Deadly Creatures. Just like the NDS before it, it is taking time for companies to get it together.

P.S. Reisitance is perhaps the most bland FPS I've played out of the "big" titles, it is Halo but more linear with some truly rip-off character designs. It is uninspired and does nothing different from every other FPS out there.

P.S. Part 2: Deg gets my vote for most condescending. There was a poll on this right? 

[GoldenPhoenix]

This is...somewhat...off-topic.... I fear that the NWR disease of derailing threads has spread from the forums to the staffers.

BAN THEM.

[KDR_11k]

Rule of thumb for "not enough games": If you can list all games in the category easily in a post there are too few.

I think comparing the PS3 to the 3DO and Jaguar is a silly (and extreme) comparison, because the PS3 isn't a commercial failure, period.

For a business the only valid diection is UP. To be a success the PS3 would have to match/exceed the profits made from the PS2. It doesn't seem to be on track for that.

[GoldenPhoenix]

One thing I think we forget is that PS2 wasn't that hot of a system (game wise) until at least a year. It had some great games but not many. PS2 also had tons of shovelware as well, it is something that comes with the territory of being number 1.

[Deguello]

Well silks if it's just your opinion about what's good or bad then you should leave out things like commercial and critical success, because those are more or less objective and your own opinions are subjective.

And if that's the case you should probably remove Eye of Judgment from your list, because that game was both 1) critically panned and 2) a flop.

You are fighting here the perception that the PS3 has "no good games" which is really a coded term for "it has no games that I value."  And since the PS3 is in last place both hardware and software, it's pretty obvious the majority doesn't either.  Facing disagreement is not an invitation to play LISTWARZ like a Gamefaqs forum regular, nor to play "Hardcore Definition Warz" like... well... the entirety of the games press.  Why you want to change people's minds about things is beyond me, and to call them "uneducated" is a bit much.

And it's funny you qualified that you "buy and play PSP games."  Do you know what the perception (and statistical truth) on that machine is?  It's owners don't buy games of any sort.  It was the worst tie ratio in history.  Here it's like 2 or 3 and in Japan it's a mind-staggering 1.8.  That means that, if there are people who've played two standard deviations above the norm, like yourself, silks (you've played 5 PSP games this year and I imagine that you maybe own another) Then it is vry possible that there is a significant number of people out there, who own PSPs, and DO NOT OWN ANY GAME WHATSOEVER.  Certainly girds the loins as for as the future of games for that console, eh?  And you can fight THAT perception that the PSP's lineup is bad and nobody buys them anywayif you want, but you will most-assuredly be drowned out by the "uneducated" RPG fans who want FFIVDS badly and just got Etrian Odyssey 2 and The World Ends With You, by "uneducated" adventure game games who bought Apollo Justice, by "uneducated" Strategy game fans who loved Advance Wars: Days of Ruin and Final Fantasy Tactics A2, and "uneducated" fans of really obscure (and not so obscure) Atlus games like Rondo of Swords and Trauma Center 2, not to mention the wide range of games like Pokemon and FF:CC and Lost in Blue 3 and that Megaman Game  uhhh... Star Force.

I know they may not be what you value, but the majority do and some will defend TO THE DEATH these games (like Bill for Apollo Justice and Myself for Trauma Center.)  You are entitled to your opinions, and nobody will try to change them.  But you certainly show an interest in changing their minds.  Which is puzzling, to be honest.

And by the way GoldenPhoenix:

Deguello
   ^
This letter, that one right there, in between the first 'e' and the 'u,' is a G.  Not a Q.  Thank you

[Kairon]

I'm buying Lost in Blue for the Wii. Deguello's last post just inspired me. ^_^

[GoldenPhoenix]

And by the way GoldenPhoenix:

Deguello
   ^
This letter, that one right there, in between the first 'e' and the 'u,' is a G.  Not a Q.  Thank you

Sorry for being blind, geesh.

[Mario]

I played about two hours of Resistance last night. It's awful.

I'd love to see a show of hands in this thread about people that actually own a PS3 and play it regularly.  I'd love to be proven wrong, but I bet that number is really low.

Because most people here aren't STUPID. Refer to my previous post.

And that's why Castlevania will have 3D graphics.

[ShyGuy]

This thread needs less PS3 hatorade and more Castlevania pics. Remember when Simon Belmont was manly?

[Morari]

I've played plenty of Halo 3, CoD4, Gears of War, and Metroid Prime 3 so I can confidently say to you that, when compared to other first-person shooters/adventures on other consoles, Resistance: Fall of Man is EXCELLENT.

I'm sure it is with comparisons like that... Maybe you should try some REAL first-person shooters?

[Flames_of_chaos]

Well guess what, this doesnt play like a traditional 3d fighter but more like a powerstone game haters rejoice!

For starters, the game plays like Power Stone, or a vs. version of the Xbox/PS2 games from a few years back. Each player grabs a character, and runs around in a small, one-level, free-roaming arena filled with monsters, candlesticks, and a classic Castlevania backdrop. General movement is handled with the analog stick on the nunchuk, while Wii-mote waggle doe s the main attacks for each character. To add modifiers to the regular attacks, you can hold any combination of A, B, and (right now it's only working slightly, but it's there) C and Z. When pressed alone, A throws whatever sub-item you selected for your player – the list includes four for each fighter, and they are set up based on that character's style – while A and B together does an item crush that uses hearts and magic together.

There's also general double-jumps for the players you'd expect. We can only talk about playing with Simon Belmont, Dracula, Alucard, and Maria, but out of those three everyone except Dracula could double jump, with Dracula's second jump instead keeping him in the air in "hover" mode for as long as you'd like. As a few other quick observations, Alucard could use his "tetra spirits" attack, Dracula threw fireballs and the huge dark sphere attack made famous in Symphony of the Night, and Maria's jump attack and sub-items make use of her summon creatures and famous owl. With someone like Simon Belmont, players can use daggers, holy water, the boomerang cross, or throwing axe.

[Adrock]

I was about to post "What the hell happened to my thread?" but props to ShyGuy and Flames of Chaos. *respect knuckles*

Wise choice on IGA's part to not make Judgement a traditional fighting game. I'm hoping for 4-player support and multiple control options, but I won't hold my breath.

[Morari]

I loved Power Stone 2 on the Dreamcast. The multi-tiered levels were great, if nothing else. I'm not sure if I like this angel as much for Castlevania though, as it was looking to be more Soul Calibur-esque in my mind.

[NWR_Lindy]

I think Resistance is excellent.  To me it has the furious twitch gameplay of an Unreal Tournament III, but it has a better story and cooler universe than, say, Halo 3.  I also love the multiplayer, especially when you could get 30+ people online.

Enough derailing.

[DAaaMan64]

LOL I'd rather have a Soul Calibur competitor. But whateva!

[Mario]

Furious twitch gameplay isn't possible with the PS3 controller.

Which is why it's good this game is on Wii.