Author Topic: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER  (Read 94469 times)

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2008, 07:25:14 PM »
EA has been one of Wii's most important third parties. All their madden games have been high quality (with the upcoming one actually teetering on being revolutionary). SSX BLur was a well received game along with Godfather which was doing some great things with the Wii Remote. Then we have Boom Blox which is AMAZING. From what I've read about Tiger Woods it could easily be the definitive version with the Wii remote.

Supposedly EA also has some new ground up games coming out on Wii soon as well. EA has been a great developer for Wii and were constantly trying to take advantage of the system. Heck look at Medal of Honor 2 which beat the crap out of any other online game on Wii along with GREAT controls. So yes I"ll say EA because they've done an admirable job, even MySims was a solid step.

I also have to throw a praise out there for Smarty Pants one of my favorite trivia games EVER which was by EA.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2008, 07:31:56 PM by GoldenPhoenix »
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2008, 07:25:41 PM »
So who would win in a fight, Siegfried or Simon Belmont?

Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2008, 07:27:19 PM »
Scream Ian...Scream.  Please.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2008, 07:32:02 PM »
Quote
All better than GC.

Does anyone who says this even remember what the Gamecube was like?

The Wii doesn't have ANYTHING third party even remotely on par with

Rogue Leader
Soul Calibur II
The three Resident Evil games

Even with something like Resident Evil 4 only being a temporary exclusive at least we got it.  RE 5 isn't even annouced for the Wii.  At least we got multiplatform games like Prince of Persia and Splinter Cell.  The Wii doesn't even get stuff like that.  Soul Calibur IV may have dumb Star Wars stuff in it but it's not on the Wii and is on the other consoles.  Just the fact that the Cube got a version of Soul Calibur II is better in comparision.

Though the Cube third party support did suck.  Oh man did it suck.  I'd say at best right now the Wii is comparable.  But I don't see how it's better.  Both consoles require me to think really hard about what third party games were worth a damn.

Plus you bring up THQ?  Come on!  Don't be so naive to think THQ will release anything that isn't complete shovelware on ANY console.  The only THQ product that was ever worth a damn was the Aki wrestling games on the N64.

Offline EasyCure

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2008, 07:34:00 PM »
i want to make some smart ass remark but i got nothing. Between this and Sould Calibur/Mortal Kombat putting weird **** into their games like Yoda/Vader and Superman/Batman... i feel like this is that awkward period in the 90s when Street Fighter was King and EVERYONE wanted a peice of the fighter pie.

It just reaks of Shaq Fu + TMNT Tourney Fighters
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2008, 07:50:01 PM »
Let me think of some 3rd party games I enjoy on Wii:

-Okami
-No More Heroes
-RE: UC
-Smarty Pants
-Boom Blox
-Zack and Wiki
-Elebits (Konami's only good Wii game IMO)

Not even sure I would include Rogue Leader as an example of GC 3rd party support since Factor 5 was quite close with Nintendo. Regardless this summer we will also see Fatal Frame 4 which looks STUNNING to one of the creepiest survival horror series around.


There, and I'm not including all the various "ports" that I believe to be high quality, with Okami being the only one I listed. And THQ's Deadly Creatures looks extremely promising and unique and I think it is a bit silly to start trashing them before they are given a chance with the game.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2008, 07:52:14 PM by GoldenPhoenix »
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2008, 08:42:04 PM »
Quote
All better than GC.

Does anyone who says this even remember what the Gamecube was like?

The Wii doesn't have ANYTHING third party even remotely on par with

Rogue Leader
Soul Calibur II
The three Resident Evil games

Even with something like Resident Evil 4 only being a temporary exclusive at least we got it.  RE 5 isn't even annouced for the Wii.  At least we got multiplatform games like Prince of Persia and Splinter Cell.  The Wii doesn't even get stuff like that.  Soul Calibur IV may have dumb Star Wars stuff in it but it's not on the Wii and is on the other consoles.  Just the fact that the Cube got a version of Soul Calibur II is better in comparision.

Though the Cube third party support did suck.  Oh man did it suck.  I'd say at best right now the Wii is comparable.  But I don't see how it's better.  Both consoles require me to think really hard about what third party games were worth a damn.

Plus you bring up THQ?  Come on!  Don't be so naive to think THQ will release anything that isn't complete shovelware on ANY console.  The only THQ product that was ever worth a damn was the Aki wrestling games on the N64.

The only console I owned last gen was a GC. So I think I'm quite qualified to speak on the subject, thank you very much. And your post exposes your narrow view of what comprises a library.

The Wii's library of exclusives is much more numerous and much wider than the GC's could ever be remembered as. It includes Sonic:Sotr, Trauma Center, and Elebits. You may wish to ignore them, but the success of MySims, Carnival Games, and potentially We Ski prove that they're serving consumer needs. EA has suddenly been inspired to provide new and exclusive content like Boom Blox, along with other much less palatable, but nonetheless exclusive, fare. Compared to having to wait ages for an obscure title like Doubutsu no Bancho/Cubivore to come stateside, the Wii saw surprising localizations of such quirks as Puchi Copter and The Dog Island. Will we get Jawa as well?

The GC saw one SE game in its lifetime. The Wii hasn't been out for two complete years yet and it's getting its second this July. The GC's sole headlining JRPG was Tales of Symphonia, which defected to the PS2 soon enough. Now we're getting another Tales in Dawn of a New World, but also Arc Fantasia and that mysterious Fragile. Behind the scenes the PS3's abysmal Japanese performance is likely to cause more defections.

Actually, Parappa used to be a strictly Playstation deal. The dog still is, but the next game from his creators is a Wii Exclusive(guess who the publisher is? A company most "traditional" gamers don't give a second thought to: the much-maligned and ignored Majesco). Monster Hunter Tri is coming to the Wii, a high profile steal from the PS3. So too are the Tenchu IV and Fatal Frame IV exclusives: stolen franchises from across the console divide.

In fact, considering that the Balance Board has a higher userbase in Japan than the PS3, it should prove no surprise that Nintendo's peripheral is breaking all the rules for peripherals. It's got third parties from EA(Skate it) to Konami(We Ski) to THQ(All Star Cheerleader) pledging support for what is likely to be one of the game industries most successful peripherals.

Ah, so I've mentioned THQ, that company you so ignorantly malign. They've prepared titles for the Wii that cause one to wonder where they came from. de Blob was my favorite game of the Nintendo Media Event: a platform/action game with addictive multiplayer and such a seamless pick-up-and-play experience. Deadly Creatures has you playing a Scorpion or a Tarantula...and is loaded with next-gen Brown. Yes, they're THQ and they also have a healthy stable of licensed franchises, yes they took Drawn to Life and decided to stick Spongebob in it for a sequel, but whether you like it or not they've got a one-two punch for Traditional gamers this fall in those two original IP core games.

And it's funny to think of the games I've forgotten to mention at this point, like Light Gun shooters (the GC never got those, I had to play Time Crisis on a friend's PS2 with their guncon) and adventure titles(Zack & Wiki yes, but also upcoming exclusive PC crossovers like Sam & Max, Strong Bad, and Runaway Dream of the Turtle). Then there's the WiiWare and indie games that are gravitating our way for the first time ever. And of course the music games, where not only is Activision upping their game, but EA will have to respond and other games are, exclusively, filtering in around the fringes.

I remember the GameCube as long stretches of dashed hope. I remember the Capcom Five, the droughts, and a horribly ported version of Conflict Desert Storm. I remember beating Tales of Symphonia as an exercise of willpower, not of pleasure, and I remember envying the quirks that were on other consoles: in what games could I take pictures of ghosts, fly around as mosquitos (Ka, oh where have you gone?), or enjoy rhythm music gaming? There's still plenty to envy Ian, but there's less now.

Actually, if I owned just an XBox 360, I'd personally be looking over the fence this way and wondering: "There's nothing about it that really absolutely needs motion, why didn't they give me de Blob? Why am I not getting the Strong Bad game on XBLA? And why did Geometry Wars get ported over with added features?"

Even as a PlayStation 3 owner I'd be asking myself: "would I rather have Time Crisis IV or Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles?"
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Offline animecyberrat

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2008, 11:16:26 PM »
I....think the game looks like it could be fun. I find it funny how everyone talked trash on the 3D Castlevanias and now they suddenly want on. I know Castevania would rock on Wii Ware, but aren't they still putting their main Castlevania games on the DS so how is that a bad thing? Is there a chance the game might suck, sure there is that chance with any game. Is this a "slap in the face" to Nintendo? Nope not one bit, considering the DS still gets the main games. Is there a chance the game might turn out good? Maybe, bt at least it *is* another fighting game and so far GC, and even Wii has been lacking in those so spin off or not it's fine by me.
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Offline Flames_of_chaos

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2008, 12:28:31 AM »
Some more info from Nintendo Power:

Castlevania: Judgment - more details

Some more snippets from the Nintendo Power article…

- Maria unlocked through DS to Wii connectivity
- special move gauge that builds up to a move that is much like a “final smashâ€
- some sort of WFC interaction
- character models by Takeshi Obata (Death Note)
- Quote from Igarashi “I guess some fans may worry about the game quality, but I am confident that we can achieve a very high-quality game. I think that fans…will see that it stays true to the Castlevania series. Even though this is a fighting game I can guarantee that it will be fun.â€



Now Ian the general consensus is that is that 3rd party titles on Wii are crap and to a degree they are, however Wii (and you can even count the DS on this one) both platforms are getting very diverse support by all the publishers, and the diversity in the Wii's and DS's library is nothing like any other you can't really say anything about the amount of diversity in the 360's library or PS3's library. Sure you can argue and say that theres a lot of crappy games on the Wii but guess what crappy games exist on every console about 30 - 50% of games on a console art crap.

The main problem with a lot of gamers are that they are just clinging on to the main established franchises and are afraid to try new franchises even though those new franchises have exceptional or excellent quality games; it happened to Okami, Boom Blox, Viva Pinata , Blast Works amongst other franchises. There's nothing wrong with sticking to the main established series but a lot of people are going to get sick of those types of games if they are force fed the same exact thing millions of times over.

While Wii does sometimes get a different variation of a established series it's usually not a bad thing because what if that spin off do something well and people like it better than the main series? Castlevania is a interesting series since it went from a strict 2d affair then to a metroidesque experience that last till this day then to a 3D game, the DS pushed the series to have online functionality and now finally a fighting game with online features of some kind. If IGA's team put in an exceptional amount of effort into it then perhaps IGA can change your mind that castlevania can in fact be a fighting game with good Wii controls. It's disheartening to see how people can be so closed minded about things hell just look at the Wii when it was first revealed people kept knocking it and calling it a impeding failure and yet it's the king of the hill now in all territories.
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Offline Strell

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2008, 01:38:29 AM »
As much as I hate to say it, I'm with Ian on this one. 

The third party offerings this time around fall into those categories he described.

I do see the point that third party software from a "have versus have not" angle is marginally better this generation around, but it's still pretty abysmal.

We all know that 3D Castlevanias suck, and that sticking franchise characters into a fighting game MORE OFTEN THAN NOT results in total failure (some obvious exceptions noted).  Konami has tried their hand at fighters, and they've failed everytime.

The ONLY WAY this could possibly be good is if I find out they've stolen major players from the Tekken and Virtua Fighter development teams.

I mean, is this what I have to look forward to when it comes to non-1st/2nd party games for Nintendo's consoles until eternity?  It's like everyone is being as passively aggressive as humanly possible toward Nintendo these days.  Capcom brings us endless remakes/re-releases, doesn't advertise them, and than whines about sales, but then turns the profit around and wastes it on big production 360/PS3 games that *can not* be driving profits that high.  EA strips out key elements and gives us bull**** I am a terrible poaster. -grade nonsense.  Namco is basically nowhere to be found. 

I mean SERIOUSLY.  So now the next time I hear a rumor that could be actually GOOD, like, say, "Metal Gear Solid may come to the Wii," the absolute BEST I could hope for in that situation would be Metal Kart Solid, right?  Or Metal Party Solid?  Or Metal Puzzle Solid?

I'm so ****ing tired of this kind of ****.  The best answer that can be given to me is to get another console, and that's a few hundred bucks easily.

I mean, I don't even know who to be mad at anymore.  Should I be pissed at Nintendo for letting this kind of bull**** happen?  Should I be pissed at Nintendo for seemingly making motion controls this generation's version of GC-GBA connectivity, where we have one minor/overblow/turns out to not be that great feature being used *in place of* something that developers and gamers actually respond to (i.e., connectivity versus online play, and now waggle versus HD graphics)?  Should I be pissed at Iga, because he's a damn asshole?  Should I be pissed at Konami, who greenlit this trash to begin with?

I've had it with this generation.  It's nothing but derivative crap on the "big" systems, and nothing but PURE **** on the Wii.

Everyone knows SOTN rocks.  Everyone generally seems to like the DS incarnations.  Why in the **** would you not want to pursue that inherent fanbase?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 01:40:47 AM by Strell »
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2008, 01:55:52 AM »
Soul Calibur Legends set a precedent for terrible spin-offs so I give Nintendo fans a pass for being close-minded about this game. IGA guaruntees that the game will be fun but while they're different companies, I remember Namco bragging that Legends was being developed by a so-called "Dream Team" at the company. Spare the lip service, we needs results. That's why Miyamoto is so revered. He can talk up a storm about his games, but when they're released, they're often F*CKING amazing. And it certainly doesn't help that IGA has yet to succeed in bringing the series to 3D. Additionally, he's experimenting with Castlevania in a genre he knows nothing about. He's a talented game designer, but there's certainly reason to have reservations.

Anyway, I find it odd that IGA is going back to the anime/manga art style. In last month's Nintendo Power, I recall him admitting that fans didn't like the art direction of Portrait of Ruin and Dawn of Sorrow. So much for that.....
Everyone knows SOTN rocks.  Everyone generally seems to like the DS incarnations.  Why in the **** would you not want to pursue that inherent fanbase?
True, but I won't kick up a fuss unless a 2D game is announced for PS3/X360. A 3D game will sting, but a 2D game is like bricking in every Nintendo fan's mouth.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 01:57:26 AM by Adrock »

Offline Kairon

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2008, 02:06:52 AM »
I mean, is this what I have to look forward to when it comes to non-1st/2nd party games for Nintendo's consoles until eternity?

No. Only for about 1.5 more generations, I think. Then we'll move onto the next stage of widespread third-party support. *crosses fingers*

Seriously though, sometimes I just want all the stubborn third parties to go bankrupt so we can just get a clean slate. But then I realize that I'm talking about game company genocide.

I mean, I don't even know who to be mad at anymore.

...

Should I be pissed at Iga, because he's a damn asshole?  Should I be pissed at Konami, who greenlit this trash to begin with?

This too. Is there a Konami expert in the house who can explain the direction this company is headed in at all? Was there a management change somewhere along the line? An exodus of staff? Did making Metal Gear Solid 4 just suck that much life out of them? Is there some psychological/cultural thing at that company?

Sure, there's always the possibility that this game will turn out good, and Iga is promising that it'll be fun... I hope he knows what he's doing.

That's why Miyamoto is so revered. He can talk up a storm about his games, but when they're released, they're often F*CKING amazing. And it certainly doesn't help that IGA has yet to succeed in bringing the series to 3D.

I say we give Castlevania to Nintendo and Retro Studios.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2008, 03:15:12 AM »
I guess I better stop loving Boom Blox because is it is PURE ****. Why in the heck are people being so freaken dramatic? It is stupid to state that all the 3rd party games on the Wii are crap and that the other consoles have nothing but derivative crap. Let's get some perspective people, it looks pretty silly. As an owner of all THREE systems they each have great gaming experiences to offer (Well PS3 less than the others, but they are still there) that you cannot find on other systems. I LOVE my Wii because I get completely different genres than I can get on 360 and vice versa. For every great shooter like Bioshock there is also a great game like Zack and Wiki on Wii or even a Boom Blox.

The Wii Remote is starting to come into its own. Dang people the Wii has only been out for a year and a half, what is with this Armageddon, this generation sucks? Don't anyone remember last generation? It took PS2 at least a year perhaps longer to get anything worthwhile on it and that system is still going. It is extremely naive and absurd to condemn a system so early in its life especially when console life spans can surpass 5 years. Not to mention a system that has such a new way of playing. EVERY new technology or way of doing things takes time to adjust to and Wii is no different. Heck look at the NES, it took a couple of years for it to take hold and through those growing pains gaming was changed.

Nintendo has hit something with the Wii Remote and it will not be some forgotten gimmick, so please give it time. Third Parties and even Nintendo themselves are not used to the new doors the system has opened, so there is going to be careful but steady progress, just give it time. Don't be sad and silly but instead be optimistic and happy!
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 03:20:43 AM by GoldenPhoenix »
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Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2008, 03:43:44 AM »
I just want to know what the hell was going through IGA's head when he decided to do this?  Every since the Wii was first shown, IGA has been asked over and over again about making a Castlevania for the Wii.  He even commented about how a lot of people want him to make a Castlevania for the Wii.  IGA had huge support from the Nintendo fanbase, and yet he decided to completely blow it.

Hopefully when this game bombs and the third DS does well, IGA will get the message that the Nintendo fans on the Wii want an ACTUAL Castlevania game on the Wii, and not some half assed spinoff crap.

And yes I'm going to refer to this game as crap until IGA proves to me otherwise.  Right now IGA has only shown that he can make good games that are 2d Castlevania's based heavily off of Symhony of the Night and that's it.  If he wants to show us he can do something other then that, then this will be his time to shine.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2008, 03:48:23 AM »
Are we sure IGA wasn't pushed into this by Konami because it would be a low risk game?
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2008, 08:38:01 AM »
Strange that Konami gives us a 2d fighter (among the most hardcore genres out there) after whining so much about casuals. Fighters are hard to get right and without experience I doubt this will go well (and I don't remember any fighting games by Konami) but they haven't been able to get Castlevania right in 3d after so many tries it's not a loss. I think Inafune is right, you can't make an oldschool 2d game on a home console and expect it to sell much at retail since it will be seen as inferior. Besides, 2d doesn't lend itself to motion controls. The alternative would have been a 3d Castlevania that would be forgotten just as quickly. They're already making another 2d Cv for the DS, what else should they have done? Make two different 2d games?

Also the Wii isn't very big on fighters so far so it does kinda fit in. I think connectivity unlocks are lame but eh, I guess more people will own the matching DS game than this.

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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2008, 12:18:14 PM »
Quote
Even as a PlayStation 3 owner I'd be asking myself: "would I rather have Time Crisis IV or Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles?"

As a PS3 owner I'd be all "are there any worthwhile exclusives on this console besides MGS4?"  I may crap on the Wii's third party support but the PS3 is only doing better in that it gets a lot of the big Xbox 360 third party games.  But the PS3 is largely an unessential console.  Both the X360 and Wii have way more exclusives.  If I owned a Wii and an X360 Metal Gear would be the only thing I would feel I'm missing.

Offline Pale

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2008, 12:25:41 PM »
Maybe until LBP comes out :)
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Offline Plugabugz

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2008, 01:42:10 PM »
Maybe until LBP comes out :)

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2008, 02:26:21 PM »
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2008, 04:53:40 PM »
What really upsets me is that if this game doesn't sell Konami won't analyze the game and think...wow perhaps we made a poor choice in mixing our IP with a fighting game.  Instead, they will blame it on Nintendo's Wii market not supporting these type of games and not make anything for the Wii.

What a crock.  They could have just made a nice 2D Castlevania and everyone would have been happy....but this is just stupid.

Offline vudu

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2008, 05:12:29 PM »
I don't think they'll blame Nintendo.  They'll come to the conclusion that 3D Castlevanias don't sell and stop making them.  (Did any of the PS2 ones sell?)

They'll probably stop making the 2D ones, too, because Konami hates me.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #47 on: June 27, 2008, 05:14:03 PM »
Hopefully when this game bombs and the third DS does well, IGA will get the message that the Nintendo fans on the Wii want an ACTUAL Castlevania game on the Wii, and not some half assed spinoff crap.
I won't go as far as labelling this crap (yet), but it does seem set to bomb at retail. The Castlevania series already isn't a huge seller. It's a series produced on the cheap that sells enough to its fanbase to turn a decent profit. Judgement, as a spin-off, already alienates some of that fanbase and doesn't necessarily appeal to the rest of the Wii audience. I hope after this game sells its one copy (to me, in all likelihood) that someone, regardless of console affiliation, palms IGA in the face and pushes it away when he tries to PR spin poor sales to hardcore games not selling on the Wii.
They're already making another 2d Cv for the DS, what else should they have done? Make two different 2d games?
To be honest, yes. That's exactly what they should have done. The fans want it and if they didn't already have a Wii, many would buy one for a new 2D Castlevania on a home console. That's the nature of a fanbase. Spin-offs, on the other hand, are fanbase splitters. You can already expect some people to pass because it's not their cup of tea.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #48 on: June 27, 2008, 06:10:24 PM »
I think after this game flops, Konami is well on its way to being finished.
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Offline Kairon

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Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
« Reply #49 on: June 27, 2008, 07:47:39 PM »
I think after this game flops, Konami is well on its way to being finished.

Maybe Capcom will buy them and release a new 2D castlevania on WiiWare.
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