Author Topic: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds  (Read 11845 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Yoshidious

  • Silent Partner
  • Score: 20
    • View Profile
How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« on: May 28, 2008, 03:55:23 AM »
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/blogArt.cfm?artid=16035

  In the famous novel To Kill a Mockingbird, it was said that it was wrong to commit that eponymous act because Mockingbirds cause people no harm, only providing music for us to enjoy. Such entities are not merely confined to the pages of Harper Lee's work or the world of ornithology, however. Indeed, I would submit that the work of this very website is its own breed of Mockingbird.    


Nintendo World Report is the product of people giving of themselves, simply because of their passion for Nintendo and video games generally. Nobody earns a living from NWR; we do not praise or decry games for financial gain, there are no backroom deals with publishers for exclusives, no plastering of the site in Kane & Lynch promotional material or other such dubious practices. NWR exists only for the love of the game, if you'll forgive the expression. Having been a reader of the site all the way back to its PlanetN2000 days before joining the staff last year, I have long appreciated this fact along with recognising the outstanding quality of the staff's work over the years.    


This is not to say that, due to NWR's nature, the opinions and reasoning of our staff members are somehow unimpeachable - far from it. We do not proclaim our reviews to be definitive or absolute. Passionate disagreement and debate are to be welcomed and indeed celebrated, and we are no strangers to these things as a staff either. We only aim to provide criticism and analysis that is sufficiently thorough, considered, and well-articulated that our readers can glean their own insights from our work, whether they agree with us or not. Consequently, the diverse feedback from the vast majority of our forum-goers who participate in commentary and debate regarding our work is a large part of what makes contributing to NWR so rewarding.      


However, this also leads us to those who qualify as NWR's would-be assassins in this literary analogy: the furious few that seem to take our attempts to provide honest analysis as some sort of unacceptable personal attack in those instances where their views diverge from those expressed by NWR staff. Seeking to right such grievous wrongs, they take to their keyboards (with fingertips aflame and Caps Lock already enabled) and proceed to spew a mix of zealous assertions and puerile insults that serve no purpose other than to assuage their apparently volcanic displeasure at discovering that someone has the temerity to disagree with them.    


I believe that such unprovoked and unreasonable attacks are, in their own small and pathetic way, analogous to killing one of Harper Lee's Mockingbirds. This is not (I'm happy to say) because any of our staff are sufficiently thin-skinned to be dealt a mortal blow by such ingeniously fashioned barbs as "you're just plain dumb with a small poo brain". The sadness here lies in the fact that some people are apparently so incapable of respectful disagreement that they do not simply refuse NWR's unconditional offerings, but instead are compelled to belittle those that work to provide them without thought of personal gain.    


Though hardly a phenomenon unique to NWR or the video gaming media in general, its existence here is all the more incomprehensible given the fact that our work at NWR (regardless of whether a review is glowing, scathing, or anywhere in the vast, nuanced space in-between) is only ever in the service of our readers. The true folly of such intolerance is that we are always exclusively on your side, whether you agree with us on specific issues or not, and to behave otherwise is to your detriment, not ours.

Greg Leahy
Former RFN Editor

Offline Maverick

  • Internet newbie :-)
  • Score: 3
    • View Profile
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2008, 11:25:57 AM »
I wasn't aware that this was all that much of a problem here.  Most of what I see is just joking anyways.  I always perceived NWR as being far too small a community to fall ill to vicious Internet Jackals.
Come play with my Twitter.

Offline vudu

  • You'd probably all be better off if I really were dead.
  • NWR Junior Ranger
  • Score: -18
    • View Profile
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2008, 11:35:50 AM »
It comes with the territory.  Your best bet is to ignore people who choose to flame you.  However, that doesn't mean you should ignore constructive criticism and well thought-out arguments.  In your recent Mario Kart Wii review you replied once to nearly 60 responses.  (True, there were a lot of crap posts in there, but there were also some interesting conversations happening that could have used some additional feedback from someone who has played the game.)  Whether you didn't feel the need to post or simply didn't check the thread again, I can't say.  However, judging from your post count of 53, it's safe to say this isn't a unique situation.

(For the most part) posts following articles from staff members who regularly contribute to the forums are much more civil and meaningful than those which are not simply because the original poster sticks around to answer questions and lead the conversation.  If you throw something out for everyone to read and then don't hang around to see the response you shouldn't be surprised when all you get back is a flamebait and fifth-grade-level insults.

Quote
Nobody earns a living from NWR; we do not praise or decry games for financial gain, there are no backroom deals with publishers for exclusives, no plastering of the site in Kane & Lynch promotional material or other such dubious practices. NWR exists only for the love of the game, if you'll forgive the expression.

Just want to point out that many of your staff members have used NWR as a starting point to become professionals within the industry (Bloodworth) or hope to soon (Karl).  So while you aren't being monetarily compensated for your work here, you can't quite claim no benefit.
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline Pale

  • Staff Layton Hat Thief
  • Score: 4
    • View Profile
    • PaleHour
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2008, 11:45:10 AM »
Quote
Seeking to right such grievous wrongs, they take to their keyboards (with fingertips aflame and Caps Lock already enabled) and proceed to spew a mix of zealous assertions and puerile insults that serve no purpose other than to assuage their apparently volcanic displeasure at discovering that someone has the temerity to disagree with them.

That was one elegantly constructed sentence Greg.  Bravo.

I have to say, I agree with a lot of this stuff and I'm often left confused by some of the responses.  It happens on two levels.  If you look at my The World Ends With You review... now that guy just made me laugh.  It actually made my day.

Then I read Windy's Mario Kart blog post, and I just don't understand why someone like Mario, who has been a member of the forums for as long as I can remember (probably even longer than myself) and he just unabashedly mocks and attempts to belittle Windy's opinion.

I just don't get it.  This isn't the only instance of Mario freaking out like this either.  I wish I understood the sudden animosity towards the site.

In all honestly, I completely disagree with Windy's opinion on the subject as well, but I think his post points to an interesting love it or hate it take on the Mario Kart series.  Regardless of how I feel, I'm not about to sit here and deny the fact that there is a large faction of people in this world that dislike the games.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2008, 11:47:30 AM by Pale »
:: Pale : Trying To Be More Involved
---------------------
:: PaleHour :: Twitter @PaleZer0 :: Backloggery

Offline Caliban

  • In Space As Always
  • Score: 32
    • View Profile
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2008, 11:46:05 AM »
Just want to point out that many of your staff members have used NWR as a starting point to become professionals within the industry (Bloodworth) or hope to soon (Karl).

And Michael (Mike) Thomsen too.

Offline Pale

  • Staff Layton Hat Thief
  • Score: 4
    • View Profile
    • PaleHour
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2008, 11:46:57 AM »
I can't believe you guys are forgetting teh billeh!
:: Pale : Trying To Be More Involved
---------------------
:: PaleHour :: Twitter @PaleZer0 :: Backloggery

Offline Caliban

  • In Space As Always
  • Score: 32
    • View Profile
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2008, 11:49:18 AM »
Well of course, how could we ever forget him.

Offline Yoshidious

  • Silent Partner
  • Score: 20
    • View Profile
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2008, 11:58:44 AM »
I should be clear that this is not a response to anything that was said regarding any of my work. From what I saw in the talkback thread for my MK Wii review (or anything else I've done in my brief time here), the feedback was about the game/review and not personal attacks. Also, as I say above, the vast majority of forumers express their views reasonably, with the purpose of arguing a point rather than making insults, and while I may not post frequently, I do read these opinions and gain a great deal of insight from doing so.

Having said that, I have observed a few cases applying to other staff members' work that have crossed the line into silly name calling, and I just felt the need to express how completely senseless and futile that is (i.e.almost as much as this blog post). And while I accept the point that there can be spin-off benefits from doing work for NWR, I don't think anyone here does so with any Machiavellian scheme to exploit these benefits, and the fact remains that unlike commercial outlets, our one and only constituency is you, the readers. 
« Last Edit: May 28, 2008, 12:00:26 PM by Yoshidious »
Greg Leahy
Former RFN Editor

Offline Maverick

  • Internet newbie :-)
  • Score: 3
    • View Profile
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2008, 12:09:38 PM »
...I don't think anyone here does so with any Machiavellian scheme to exploit these benefits...

They fake their own journalism death by signing on to NWR only to rise from the ashes as legitimate games journalists?   :P
Come play with my Twitter.

Offline DAaaMan64

  • Winner of the Most Terrible Username Award
  • Score: 10
    • View Profile
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2008, 12:12:31 PM »
I FUCKING HATE N00B-W-R
FREEEEEDDDDDOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM!!!!

Marvel Heroes - Marvel Heroes
Frozen Shoe Games

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil. For I am with me.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2008, 12:31:58 PM »
I can't believe you guys are forgetting teh billeh!

Leave former Nintendo fans out of this.
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline Bill Aurion

  • NWR Forum Loli
  • Score: 35
    • View Profile
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2008, 12:53:08 PM »
Then I read Windy's Mario Kart blog post, and I just don't understand why someone like Mario, who has been a member of the forums for as long as I can remember (probably even longer than myself) and he just unabashedly mocks and attempts to belittle Windy's opinion.

I just don't get it.  This isn't the only instance of Mario freaking out like this either.  I wish I understood the sudden animosity towards the site.

You do not cross Mario when it comes to Mario Kart...You just do not do it... ;)

As for the animosity, it most certainly isn't sudden...It's been mostly a build-up over the years of hilarious comments from NWR staff (the amusing "PSP will destroy the DS" comments particularly come to mind) that's finally causing him to snap...

(And don't think that just because some of us are quiet that we don't have our own begrudging feelings over certain reviews and staff members... :heart; )
~Former Resident Zelda Aficionado and Nintendo Fan~

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2008, 01:00:47 PM »
Mario didn't snap.  He's being the righteous Revolutionary fueled by our New Generation of gaming.  He "gets it".  He's also had Mario Kart Wii a month longer than any of us Yanks.  He "knows it" and "understands it".  (which explains why he's kicking worldwide ass online).

Mario Kart Wii is the best Mario Kart to date.  It's a better Mario Kart more than Brawl is a better Smash Bros. game (haha what a disaster).
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline DAaaMan64

  • Winner of the Most Terrible Username Award
  • Score: 10
    • View Profile
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2008, 01:04:04 PM »
It really is really damn good. To bad the battle mode ain't better.
FREEEEEDDDDDOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM!!!!

Marvel Heroes - Marvel Heroes
Frozen Shoe Games

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil. For I am with me.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2008, 01:06:31 PM »
Grand Prix is the real Battle Mode.
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline Bill Aurion

  • NWR Forum Loli
  • Score: 35
    • View Profile
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2008, 01:07:32 PM »
Mario didn't snap.  He's being the righteous Revolutionary fueled by our New Generation of gaming.  He "gets it".  He's also had Mario Kart Wii a month longer than any of us Yanks.  He "knows it" and "understands it".  (which explains why he's kicking worldwide ass online). Mario Kart to date.  It's a better Mario Kart more than Brawl is a better Smash Bros. game (haha what a disaster).

When did I say snapping was a bad thing? :cool;
~Former Resident Zelda Aficionado and Nintendo Fan~

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2008, 01:22:53 PM »
Welcome to the internets, you must be new here.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2008, 01:23:32 PM »
Mario didn't snap.  He's being the righteous Revolutionary fueled by our New Generation of gaming.  He "gets it".  He's also had Mario Kart Wii a month longer than any of us Yanks.  He "knows it" and "understands it".  (which explains why he's kicking worldwide ass online). Mario Kart to date.  It's a better Mario Kart more than Brawl is a better Smash Bros. game (haha what a disaster).

When did I say snapping was a bad thing? :cool;

When did I address that, noob?
I was saying you're wrong.
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline Plugabugz

  • *continues waiting*
  • Score: 10
    • View Profile
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2008, 01:29:59 PM »
We derail things because it's the only way to bring sanity to our otherwise destructive lives.

Offline Bill Aurion

  • NWR Forum Loli
  • Score: 35
    • View Profile
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2008, 01:32:12 PM »
Mario didn't snap.  He's being the righteous Revolutionary fueled by our New Generation of gaming.  He "gets it".  He's also had Mario Kart Wii a month longer than any of us Yanks.  He "knows it" and "understands it".  (which explains why he's kicking worldwide ass online). Mario Kart to date.  It's a better Mario Kart more than Brawl is a better Smash Bros. game (haha what a disaster).

When did I say snapping was a bad thing? :cool;

When did I address that, noob?
I was saying you're wrong.

No, YOU are wrong...Troll harder!
~Former Resident Zelda Aficionado and Nintendo Fan~

Offline Pale

  • Staff Layton Hat Thief
  • Score: 4
    • View Profile
    • PaleHour
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2008, 01:49:14 PM »
I see.  So there is somehow a magical hidden list of people on staff you guys like and people you dislike!

Now we can all wonder which list we fall on!
:: Pale : Trying To Be More Involved
---------------------
:: PaleHour :: Twitter @PaleZer0 :: Backloggery

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2008, 01:51:33 PM »
Rainbow Road + Bob-omb = BITTER BILL
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline Bill Aurion

  • NWR Forum Loli
  • Score: 35
    • View Profile
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2008, 02:04:50 PM »
Any track + Mega Mushroom = SQUISHED NOA_REGGIE
~Former Resident Zelda Aficionado and Nintendo Fan~

Offline ShyGuy

  • Tom Nook - Like a Boss!
  • *
  • Score: -9661
    • View Profile
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2008, 02:10:56 PM »
I can tolerate this. Just barely, but I will tolerate it.

Offline animecyberrat

  • Official NWR Lindsay Lohan Fan
  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
Re: How Talkback Flame Wars Kill Mockingbirds
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2008, 03:37:20 PM »
I admit I was one of the worst at this, when I was new. But in my defense I was coming here from like four or five different forums and it was starting to frustrate me how every time I would express a different opinion than the "community" I was trying to be a part of, I would always get flamed. I decided, when I first came here, to flame back and not let anyone tell me what I can and can not like.

That of course got me into trouble as I lost my temper more times than I care to admit. So for the most part, I do agree with Greg here, some people just cannot fathom that someone out there can have a difference in taste than they do.


As for the secret list of staff members nobody likes, I would have put Ty at the top of that a year ago, but now I respect him a lot more than I did before so I try not to hold a grudge. 
"You can call me THE RAT, thank you very much"