Topic: 7 commandments of videogames

[KDR_11k]

If someone is dumb enough to save the game mid-plummet they deserve whatever happens to them.

For a plummet, yes. You can tell you're falling into lava. There are often much less obvious errors you can make in a game that can make it impossible to beat without you knowing it (many old text adventures LOVED doing that). Saving in Tourian with only two E tanks, anyone?

[UltimatePartyBear]

It took me a long time to unlock the AX Cup, but I did it, and I wouldn't want the game to be any easier. The satisfaction I got from unlocking that cup is far greater than anything I've experienced in games, and it was largely because it was so hard to get there.

You got that satisfaction from accomplishing something difficult.  You would have been just as satisfied if the game had simply congratulated you on a job well done.

The game was difficult but never, ever unfair. You had a chance to win every track on any difficulty. It's easily in my top 10 games ever.

The game's difficulty wasn't unfair, and I rate it highly, too, but that doesn't change the fact that the requirements were unfair.  I paid for the game, and parts of it were unavailable to me unless I made it my career.  I don't have that kind of time.  I gave it my best shot, but ultimately had to just walk away.

If someone is dumb enough to save the game mid-plummet they deserve whatever happens to them.

Sometimes it's not their fault.  That happened to a friend of mine in one of the NES Castlevania games.  The game respawned him over the same pit he died in.

[Nick DiMola]

In defense of F-Zero GX, if you bought it, you should've known what you were getting yourself into. The game is HARDCORE, no two ways about it. If you aren't into that kind of challenge you should've passed it up before even giving the time of day.

[Ian Sane]

In defense of F-Zero GX, if you bought it, you should've known what you were getting yourself into. The game is HARDCORE, no two ways about it. If you aren't into that kind of challenge you should've passed it up before even giving the time of day.

But F-Zero is a series.  I bought F-Zero GX because I loved F-Zero and F-Zero X.  So I figured it would be comparable to that.  Those aren't easy games but GX's story mode expects the player to do flawless runs on the second mission.  And that's like the normal difficulty.  That wasn't really expected in other F-Zero games.

[UltimatePartyBear]

Why is this so difficult to understand?  I like that it's a hard game.  I'm not some weak-thumbed milquetoast or Nintendog-petting non-gamer.  I understood that F-Zero GX would be a hard game because I've been a fan of F-Zero since the original.  Even so, I eventually came to realize that I wasn't going to get any farther in the game than I already was unless I had the Ark of the Covenant going before me.  Anyone who has managed to unlock the AX Cup without divine intervention has my congratulations.  I'm very happy for you.  I'm being so sincere right now.

Difficulty has never been the issue.  It should be difficult to do whatever it is that unlocks the AX tracks (I don't remember anymore), but it should not be required.  I hate the attitude that I somehow don't "deserve" part of the game I gave Nintendo my cash monies for.

[Nick DiMola]

Difficulty has never been the issue.  It should be difficult to do whatever it is that unlocks the AX tracks (I don't remember anymore), but it should not be required.  I hate the attitude that I somehow don't "deserve" part of the game I gave Nintendo my cash monies for.

Well, I can agree with that sentiment. It has always been my feeling that there should be some sort of master code in every game that will unlock everything. Players want to see it all, regardless of their skill level, because they made an investment and want the full value.

If the people who take on the true challenge are concerned about this cheapening their accomplishments, use of the master cheat code would taint the save file of the user, noting that they cheated to unlock everything.

[walkingdead2]

you know it really dosent matter if you agree with all seven or just 3 of these rules... video games are subjective and they all apply to some games some of the time and not nessesaraly to others.  the main one that i wanted to bring up is #1 cause that is so so so true.

why is it last generation none of these company's wanted to push hardware.   you saw a few games only on xbox but that was more to do with teams like team ninja who only liked developing for the x-box.  it made sence from a business standpoint to put games on the ps2 then port them to the other systems due to the inferior hardware and the fact that there were just so many ps2's out there.  but rather than making a good or great game on a system that has 2 or even 3 times the amount of hardware out there than the other system you just want to push hardware... stay in the pc realm if thats what you want to do.

[GoldenPhoenix]

That is why I wish Action Replay wouldn't be shut out all the time by Nintendo. At least it provides an option for people.

[IceCold]

You got that satisfaction from accomplishing something difficult.  You would have been just as satisfied if the game had simply congratulated you on a job well done.

No, I felt like all my effort was actually worth it. I was going for the tracks the whole time - if I spent all that time and just got a Congratulations screen, it would have felt exponentially worse.

The game's difficulty wasn't unfair, and I rate it highly, too, but that doesn't change the fact that the requirements were unfair.  I paid for the game, and parts of it were unavailable to me unless I made it my career.  I don't have that kind of time.  I gave it my best shot, but ultimately had to just walk away.

I spent less time to unlock the AX Cup than I did to finish Twilight Princess. Maybe it's just a preference thing, but I'd rather a reflex-based, pick up and play game like F-Zero GX than an epic 40 hour game.

EDIT: I agree with you that it's kind of unfair for so many people to not have access to the tracks. But on the other hand, videogames have always been about rewarding effort. Maybe a "master code" like someone said earlier would work, but then what would motivate them to play the game and become good at it?

[UltimatePartyBear]

what would motivate them to play the game and become good at it?

How about the game simply being good enough to play and become good at for its own sake?  I think GX would be that type of game for me if it weren't so demotivating to have that content locked.  It's the difference between a bully holding something of yours out of reach and laughing at you and you deciding to see how high you can jump just because.  Both situations have the same physical demands, but the first one would motivate me more to kick the bully in the balls (i.e. use a cheat code) than to try to jump high.

[Ian Sane]

Considering the multiplayer focus on racing games I wonder how well a game would go over if all the tracks and cars were unlocked from the get-go.  Then you just have fun racing the different tracks with your friends or against the computer.

Look at sports games.  Imagine an NHL game where to begin with I only have the "original six" teams available and if I want to play as the Canucks I first have to win the Stanley Cup with the Maple Leafs.  That would be sh!t on by everybody.  In sports games typically I have everything at my disposal.  The purpose of winning the season mode is entirely for fun.

So maybe a game like F-Zero should just be about winning the championship in all circuits and beating the best times.  High scores used to be the whole point of damn near every game.

I have all three Fire Pro Wrestling games released in North America.  The two GBA ones came out first and require you to unlock all the characters.  I never could be bothered and always used a code.  I just wanted to have all the wrestlers at my disposal right away so I could make full use of all the different game modes available.  The devs obviously discovered that a lot of people had the same view as me as Fire Pro Wrestling Returns for the PS2 has all the characters available from the start.  No unlockables.  Everything is available to you and you decide what to do.

With non-games and open-ended stuff like GTA being so popular having to unlock everything seems like going against the grain.

[Luigi Dude]

But F-Zero is a series.  I bought F-Zero GX because I loved F-Zero and F-Zero X.  So I figured it would be comparable to that.  Those aren't easy games but GX's story mode expects the player to do flawless runs on the second mission.  And that's like the normal difficulty.  That wasn't really expected in other F-Zero games.

I agree 100%.  The biggest problem with GX story mode is the fact they require you to have to use Captain Falcon.  If your someone who's isn't good with using Captain Falcon in the Grand Prix, then your pretty much f*cked.

The whole point of racing games is for people to use different racers that fit their style.  When the game forces you to play as Captain Falcon when your not a Captain Falcon player, not to mention you have to be a PERFECT Captain Falcon player just to unlock a huge amount of content, that is extremely unfair.

[wandering]

Re: escort missions. RE4 wouldn't have been nearly as good without Ashley. Being alone with someone who needed protection made enemies scarier, and killing more satisfying.

[walkingdead2]

Re: escort missions. RE4 wouldn't have been nearly as good without Ashley. Being alone with someone who needed protection made enemies scarier, and killing more satisfying.

well im sure that was just used as an example.  you have to admit that in the vast majority of escort missions its actually a drag to have to save someone like that.

[Ian Sane]

One thing I wonder is if developers actually make sure that their game is fun.  Most games, even good ones, have at least one part where you're just wondering who the hell would ever enjoy this.  Are developers even capable of truly being able to tell if their game is fun or do they just have to go by theory?  If you're a tester you're going to play through a game so much and you're not going to play like a real player.  You have to go into every nook and cranny to make sure the game doesn't crash.  While under a deadline and with a priority to just make sure the game works correctly you probably don't really take into account how enjoyable the game is.  Hell, since the whole thing is work for you, maybe you can't even if you try.

I'm a programmer and sometimes some questionable design choices make it into our software because we're just thinking about making sure it works correctly and not always thinking about how the user will use the software.  That has to be part of game design as well.  Everyone is going to make sure that the escort mission works correctly.  If the escort dies it should be game over.  If the mission is complete it should recognize that.  That's routine software testing.  But they're probably not always going to take into account if this bug-free escort mission is actually enjoyable.

[Smoke39]

That's what focus testing is for (as opposed to bug testing).  Get a bunch of ordinary people to come play your game and just watch them to see which parts they enjoy and which parts they don't.  I'm sure different devs do different amounts of this (Valve, for example, does oodles of it).

[EasyCure]

Re: escort missions. RE4 wouldn't have been nearly as good without Ashley. Being alone with someone who needed protection made enemies scarier, and killing more satisfying.

well im sure that was just used as an example.  you have to admit that in the vast majority of escort missions its actually a drag to have to save someone like that.

I agree with both of you. Ashley was actually pretty good to escort but that might of been because of how much could be done in the game. You could leave here in the second floor of a building and kick out ladders so no one can get to her, have her hide in dumpsters and because of how zombies reacted differently depending on where they were hit, it made saving her easy (especially with Godly Wii Aiming).

Then there's something like Goldeneye 007... ugh thost missions with Natasha were such a pain, especially once you get to Janus' underground complex and you had to cover her while she's on that f*cking computer in the middle of the room. That was just plain tear your head out frustrating if you weren't good at it. If you were patient enough you became good at it because you had to re-try that level so many times.

[KDR_11k]

[

One thing I wonder is if developers actually make sure that their game is fun.  Most games, even good ones, have at least one part where you're just wondering who the hell would ever enjoy this.  Are developers even capable of truly being able to tell if their game is fun or do they just have to go by theory?

]
When you're working on something you become unable to spot its flaws after a while, flaws you'd see immediately otherwise.

I can't think of something right now that would be an example of a completely un-fun gameplay decision, anyone got good examples? Collectathons and mandatory secrets are stupid but it's easy to see how a developer can miss that as the dev already knows where everything is.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

SSE

[walkingdead2]

Re: escort missions. RE4 wouldn't have been nearly as good without Ashley. Being alone with someone who needed protection made enemies scarier, and killing more satisfying.

well im sure that was just used as an example.  you have to admit that in the vast majority of escort missions its actually a drag to have to save someone like that.

I agree with both of you. Ashley was actually pretty good to escort but that might of been because of how much could be done in the game. You could leave here in the second floor of a building and kick out ladders so no one can get to her, have her hide in dumpsters and because of how zombies reacted differently depending on where they were hit, it made saving her easy (especially with Godly Wii Aiming).

Then there's something like Goldeneye 007... ugh thost missions with Natasha were such a pain, especially once you get to Janus' underground complex and you had to cover her while she's on that f*cking computer in the middle of the room. That was just plain tear your head out frustrating if you weren't good at it. If you were patient enough you became good at it because you had to re-try that level so many times.

but yea escort missions due suck most of the time.  im playing bioshock and im near the end.  this game was really fun until the escort mission.  its not hard it just isnt fun.