Author Topic: 7 commandments of videogames  (Read 15365 times)

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Offline walkingdead2

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7 commandments of videogames
« on: April 29, 2008, 05:39:13 PM »
i would have posted this in general but the number 1 commandment is practically about Nintendo and i couldn't agree with it more.  but this article is pretty funny and a good read if you haven't scene it yet.


http://www.cracked.com/article_16196_7-commandments-all-video-games-should-obey.html

Offline vudu

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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2008, 05:42:25 PM »
I saw that this morning.  Pretty good read.

For those who don't want to bother with the link (and the excessively long write-up) here's the short version.

7.  Thou shalt let us play your game with real-life friends.
     Online-only Multiplayer sucks.

6.  Thou shalt not pad the length of your games.
     Don't put huge stretches of land between objectives.
     Don't add pointless, mandatory fetch quests.

5.  Thou shalt not force repetition on the player.
     Don't force players to replay levels due to limited save points.
     Don't force players to watch cutscenes repeatedly.
     Don't use instant failure quicktime events.

4.  Thou shalt make killing fun.
     Don't make players start with a bullshit weapon.
     Don't fill the game with tiny rodent enemies.
     Don't make bullets that have no visible effect.
     Don't fill the game with hordes of cookie-cutter bad guys.

3.  Thou shalt admit when enough is enough.
     Don't include escort missions.
     Don't include CPU-controlled squad teammates.
     Don't include first-person jumping puzzles.
     Stop making World War II games.
     Don't make your hero a grizzled space marine.

2.  Thou shalt make sure your game actually works.
     Don't port games after about five minutes of beta testing.
     Don't release games the console can't really run.
     Don't fill the game with excessive load times.

1.  Better graphics do not equal innovation and/or creativity.
     Wii is beating the pants off of Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3.
     DS is beating the pants off of everybody.
     Hire real writers ...
     ... then hire competent voice actors to say the lines.
     Put some work into the ending.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2008, 05:53:24 PM by vudu »
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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2008, 07:01:39 PM »
Heh, I love Cracked. Their lists are some of the best! :D
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Offline DAaaMan64

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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2008, 07:54:28 PM »
Totally the truth about the escort missions :P
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Offline Adrock

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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2008, 09:14:40 PM »
Usually these kinds of lists are utter fail, but this was pretty spot-on. You could tell a gamer wrote that.... unlike a certain GTAIV review that cited the elusive "Sony Wii."

Offline EasyCure

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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2008, 09:21:45 PM »
Usually these kinds of lists are utter fail, but this was pretty spot-on. You could tell a gamer wrote that.... unlike a certain GTAIV review that cited the elusive "Sony Wii."

I was going to say the same thing about it being written by real gamers... but where is this review you speak of????
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2008, 01:51:08 AM »
I'd say many of those points are highly debatable.

Huge stretches of land aren't an issue. Huge EMPTY stretches of land are.

The golden bugs in Twilight Princess were not a stupid fetch quest, they required real thinking at times. "Go into dungeon X and get Y" is just a way of saying "beat dungeon X". Do you consider beating levels pointless? Sure, then games are uselessly padded. The rest of us only consider fetch quests stupid that consist of running around in areas you've beaten before (or that are harmless like, say, a city) or finding every single secret in a level before you can proceed (Turok anyone?).

Saving everywhere does not fit into every game. In some games you should deliver a good performance for a longer stretch of gameplay instead of retrying every enemy ten times individually but still progressing. It makes difficulty levels pointless as they only change the number of times you have to reload your save. While it is annoying to force the player to go through a long stretch of obstacles he can already beat flawlessly to get to the area where he has trouble it's not a good idea to just allow breaking every challenge into as many saves as you want. Would a jumping puzzle have as much itension if you could save after every jump and making each was just a matter of reloading often enough? Sometimes you don't want to allow trial and error as a means of progression. BTW, the listed example of an FPS is exactly the genre that suffers from saving all the time, the difficulty becomes basically zero.

Death during cutscenes adds a LOT to the game, you can't just sit back and be lazy while your character is in a life threatening situation, you must be alert at all times. Sure, it couldbe reduced to just damage but if you've got the infinite save thing from above as well wouldn't you just reload the cutscene until you've done it without taking damage?

Also, handguns can be some serious pwn in some games. Ever tried them in a game with instakill headshots? Hell, I've heard Halo MP's best weapon is the freaking handgun!

Sure, WW2 is tired but hey, CoH is awesome. The definition fo a grizzled space marine also seems kinda loose, does body armor and a gun immediately make you grizzled? Silly SWAT, the grizzled look is so passé!

There are some places where slowdown on a console is acceptable, it's not always possible to limit the number of things that go on when you've got a player running around and causing more. Wouldn't it be more aggravating to have your gun stop shooting because too many bullets are in play? I've even seen games (mostly shmups) emulate slowdown when large numbers of bullets were in play so you have a better chance of dodging them.

Putting a lot of work into the ending should be done with moderation, while it's nice to get a reward for beating that final boss noone wants to know what every single insignificant piece of **** you saw in the game does now.

Offline blackfootsteps

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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2008, 04:07:16 AM »
Re: Save Points
But why can't every game at least have temporary saves that are deleted after being loaded? This would stop gamers 'cheating' by saving before each jump and then loading every time they make a little mistake. 
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Offline walkingdead2

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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2008, 10:24:28 AM »
I'd say many of those points are highly debatable.



and i'd say you missed the point.  it was a humorous article. 

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2008, 12:09:18 PM »
Funny stuff.  Though I find the view on save points to be flawed.  There's nothing wrong with a checkpoint method of progression.  If you just pop up immediately after you die then there's no challenge.  You might as well have god mode on.  You need to have replay stuff after you die.

The problem is just when the save points are too far apart.  If there's a series of bosses in a row for example I should be able to save in between them.  I've given up on games where I've spent hours trying to beat a boss (ie: dying multiple times), barely beat him, and then as I've made my way to the next save point gotten killed by a routine cannon fodder enemy because I was in such low health, thus losing all my progress.  That's dumb design.  The game should "remember" that I beat the boss and not force me to do it again.  But being able to save after every step isn't needed and actually ruins games.

I would like the ability to pause cutscenes though.  My brother got all the Metal Gear Solid games recently and we were playing through them.  Well quite often the cutscenes go on for quite a few minutes.  Meanwhile the phone rings and now what do I do?

Offline mantidor

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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2008, 12:18:09 PM »
I'd say many of those points are highly debatable.



and i'd say you missed the point.  it was a humorous article. 

It was written humorously but it was serious about the criticism, and save for some little nitpicks I could make I completely agree with the article.

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Offline walkingdead2

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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2008, 12:46:32 PM »
yea we can all nitpick every article.  this was an op ed humor piece.  i agree with it but it was a humorous opinion piece.

Offline UltimatePartyBear

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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2008, 12:46:43 PM »
I kind of agree with the notion that being able to save anywhere makes the game easier, but does that really matter?  You can choose not to use it if you feel that way.  I wouldn't have beaten most of the FPS games I've played on my PC without quick save/load keys.  I've even saved during boss fights.  I still have fun.  In fact, I have more fun.  In Jedi Outcast, I enjoyed the light saber combat so much that I would quick load after winning every fight regardless of how it turned out just to enjoy it again and try different techniques.  I did the same sort of thing in Half-Life, Deus Ex, and many others.  I'd try to find the baddest way to get past every obstacle.

Then there's Far Cry, which I still haven't finished because I got to a point where some monsters killed me easily over and over again, and it took me a few minutes to get there from the last checkpoint.  The checkpoints in Far Cry aren't even very far apart, and up until that moment they hadn't bothered me.  I actually kind of liked the Groundhog Day-ness of it when I screwed up and knew where the bad guys were on the next try.  That didn't last.  All it took was one badly-designed checkpoint to ruin everything.  And that's a key point.  It only takes one.  You simply can't design a game that has no bad checkpoints because every player is different.  Someone out there is going to run into a problem you didn't expect and get frustrated, and frustrated people don't buy sequels.

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2008, 02:08:21 PM »
If you can save everywhere the testers will do so and the game will be made for that kind of behaviour. FPSes are already designed in a way that expects you to save regularly and will kill you pretty quickly on some mistakes, assuming your last save wasn't far back.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2008, 03:23:28 PM »
Quote
You simply can't design a game that has no bad checkpoints because every player is different.  Someone out there is going to run into a problem you didn't expect and get frustrated, and frustrated people don't buy sequels.

Back in the 2D era this wasn't an issue.  No one acted like it was their right to be able to beat a game.  Although there was a fair amount of games with cheating bullsh!t difficulty, the assumption was that completing a game was an accomplishment and you required a certain amount of skill to do so.

I'm not even good at videogames.  Never have been.  I rarely beat any videogame.  Yet even I think that a lot of current gamers are big f*cking pussies.  A typical videogame has to provide some challenge.  There are user-friendly ways to do this that minimize frustration.  The player should never feel cheated but should accept that some parts of a game aren't going to be completed in the first try and in some games you might get stuck, even if other people don't appear to.  That's just the way things go.

Now they're not going to be able to suddenly brainwash people into thinking this way so I can see how it's an issue regarding people not buying sequels.  I'm not sure how to fix that though the problem won't go away if you just keep giving in to the "wuss gamers".

What if a game had a few "get unstuck free" cards where if a player just could not get past an area they could use it and get to continue on with the story?  But they only get very few of these.  Sometimes I'll admit I just don't have the certain types of skills to beat one part in a game but after getting someone else to beat it can just continue to breeze through the rest with no problem.

Offline Nick DiMola

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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2008, 03:30:27 PM »
I think games are for the better these days that they are more easily beaten. Gamers want value now, and value is not getting a game for $50 that is so hard that you'll never see half of the game if you are just ok at it.

Games that are hard as hell have become their own genre which I think is for the best. If you want a game to kick your ass around town, find one that was made with that in mind (Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, Ikaruga)
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Offline UltimatePartyBear

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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2008, 04:23:49 PM »
Quote
You simply can't design a game that has no bad checkpoints because every player is different.  Someone out there is going to run into a problem you didn't expect and get frustrated, and frustrated people don't buy sequels.

Back in the 2D era this wasn't an issue.  No one acted like it was their right to be able to beat a game.  Although there was a fair amount of games with cheating bullsh!t difficulty, the assumption was that completing a game was an accomplishment and you required a certain amount of skill to do so.

I've been a gamer since games couldn't even be beaten.  You don't get to play that card with me.

Quote
I'm not even good at videogames.  Never have been.  I rarely beat any videogame.  Yet even I think that a lot of current gamers are big f*cking pussies.  A typical videogame has to provide some challenge.  There are user-friendly ways to do this that minimize frustration.  The player should never feel cheated but should accept that some parts of a game aren't going to be completed in the first try and in some games you might get stuck, even if other people don't appear to.  That's just the way things go.

I'm pretty good at video games, and I always have been.  That has nothing to do with it.  This isn't about not being able to do things on the first try, either.  I can't even remember the last time I couldn't beat some boss on the first try in a first party Nintendo game, but I still have fun doing it.  This isn't even about not being able to do something.  I'm 100% sure that I could have eventually passed that part of Far Cry.  This is about discouraging the player from trying again by making it needlessly bothersome or even painful.

It's not just checkpoints in FPS games, either.  In a shooter, for example, you might die in a difficult boss fight and lose all your powerups, making your next several lives forfeit as well.  There's no sense even continuing, because you'd have to go back to the beginning of the level to get all the powerups you need to survive back.  I couldn't beat the boss with the UberMegaBeam, so as punishment I have to fail again with a peashooter and a quarter of the hit points?  There's something wrong with that line of thinking.

Really, I want to try again when I fail.  I'll try over and over again for hours sometimes, but the game needs to get out of my way when I do it.  I recall going for platinum medals in Blast Corps and getting absolutely furious at Rare for making the game's pause menu totally unresponsive until its stupid little animation finished.  It should have taken less than a second to restart the level when I didn't get the boost start, but instead it took what felt like years after just the first few tries.  That was only wasting a couple seconds of my time on each attempt.  If you waste a full minute or more, the frustration isn't going to just make me mad.  It's going to completely drain me of the desire to play your game.

It really isn't a question of difficulty at all, but one of game design.

Quote
What if a game had a few "get unstuck free" cards where if a player just could not get past an area they could use it and get to continue on with the story?  But they only get very few of these.  Sometimes I'll admit I just don't have the certain types of skills to beat one part in a game but after getting someone else to beat it can just continue to breeze through the rest with no problem.

There are ways to do that right (the cloud item in Super Mario Bros. 3 was a good attempt), and ways to make me want to murder you and your entire family for patronizing me.  It should be the player's choice every time.  That is paramount.

While I'm at it, let me add one more commandment.  Thou shalt not lock content behind goals that only part of your audience will be able to accomplish.  F-Zero GX, I'm looking at you.

Offline Dirk Temporo

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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2008, 05:26:33 PM »
That list is a pile of crap.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2008, 05:46:09 PM »
Quote
While I'm at it, let me add one more commandment.  Thou shalt not lock content behind goals that only part of your audience will be able to accomplish.  F-Zero GX, I'm looking at you.

Oh f*ck, I'll agree with that one.  The only new vehicles and characters not available in F-Zero X required you to be a supreme expert at the game.  Come on.

Unlockables in general actually are a little bit annoying.  Obviously there's the old "to get to the next level beat the previous one" stuff that is expected and perfectly normal.  A couple really secret stuff is okay too I guess.  But when multiplayer modes and whole game options are completely hidden it's kind of a pain.  The worst I've seen is Driver which requires you to complete an annoying driving test before you can do ANYTHING at all.  So you have to be good at the game before you can even start playing it. Huh?

Something else that if I could make illegal I would is game design where you can be saved in such a state that you're completely f*cked unless you start the whole game from scratch or reload from a backup save you somehow had the wherewithal to create in the first place for such an occasion.  This is common in games where your current health or ammo or something like that is saved and you cannot replenish it from where you last saved.  But you ALSO have too little health or ammo to get any further.  F*cking Splinter Cell did this sh!t.  Whatever mission I got stuck in is a three part mission and the games saves at each part.  However by the time I got to the third part I had run low on ammo and there was no way to replenish it.  Meanwhile I pretty much had to kill three guys and I had like only five bullets.  Miss a headshot or a guy takes too many hits (and headshots were very iffy in this game as many times shooting a guy in the face merely "wakes him up" and alerts him to my presence) or if they make too much noise and call for back up and I'm screwed.  I can't do it but it took me a fair amount of time to complete the first two parts of the mission and I don't want to have to do that part over again.  So I said "f*ck it" and never played the game again.

I guess that's similar to the checkpoint thing but in this case the checkpoint saved me in a condition where I had no realistic chance of getting further and I would have had to go several "checkmarks back" to try again.  If this was a game where there were no clear levels I would have had to start over completely.

Yeah I guess it is all just down to good game design.  How about this rule: continuing and loading from the last save are different.  So many games treat them as the same thing and that's when you get stuck between save points or have to repeat a whole bunch of annoying stuff or get permanently stuck with low resources.  In Metroid Prime if I die I shouldn't have to scan all the stuff I got from my last save over again unless I turn the console off.  It should remember that I already did that and thus let me quickly get back to fighting the boss without having to stop and scan him yet again in order to get my 100% scans.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2008, 02:53:06 AM »
Funny stuff.  Though I find the view on save points to be flawed.  There's nothing wrong with a checkpoint method of progression.  If you just pop up immediately after you die then there's no challenge.  You might as well have god mode on.  You need to have replay stuff after you die.

Save points also prevent something extremely funny and/or frustrating from occurring...   Let's say someone fell off a cliff and was heading into lava, so while they're falling they quickly save the game before they die. Then every time they reload the save they'll relive their character falling into the lava ad infinitem. That would be funny to others, but terribly frustrating for the player. Save points help prevent this. They give you a safe place where you can be sure you won't be instantly killed every time you load the save.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2008, 02:56:37 AM by Chozo Ghost »
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Offline DAaaMan64

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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2008, 03:11:10 AM »
Funny stuff.  Though I find the view on save points to be flawed.  There's nothing wrong with a checkpoint method of progression.  If you just pop up immediately after you die then there's no challenge.  You might as well have god mode on.  You need to have replay stuff after you die.

Save points also prevent something extremely funny and/or frustrating from occurring...   Let's say someone fell off a cliff and was heading into lava, so while they're falling they quickly save the game before they die. Then every time they reload the save they'll relive their character falling into the lava ad infinitem. That would be funny to others, but terribly frustrating for the player. Save points help prevent this. They give you a safe place where you can be sure you won't be instantly killed every time you load the save.

That actually happened to me in the original Half Life Demo :P
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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2008, 03:12:05 AM »
If someone is dumb enough to save the game mid-plummet they deserve whatever happens to them.
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Offline DAaaMan64

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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2008, 03:14:02 AM »
If someone is dumb enough to save the game mid-plummet they deserve whatever happens to them.

Nah thats the programmer being lazy, they should never allow that kinda stuff. 

I just didn't care cause it was Half Life and it was the demo.  Don't like either of those things.
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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2008, 03:45:29 AM »
The best way to handle it would be to include both ways, allow a quick save anywhere but if the player screws that up they can fall back to the last checkpoint they passed.
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Offline IceCold

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Re: 7 commandments of videogames
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2008, 03:57:59 AM »
Quote
Thou shalt not lock content behind goals that only part of your audience will be able to accomplish.  F-Zero GX, I'm looking at you.

F-Zero GX? Come on.. Maybe I disagree because it's the one hard game that I'm really good at, but the difficulty in F-Zero GX is perfect. It's the ultimate example of a difficult game that, with practice, is possible to beat. And what's more, you have fun the whole way, even if you're losing, and you can actually see that you're improving as you carry on playing.

It took me a long time to unlock the AX Cup, but I did it, and I wouldn't want the game to be any easier. The satisfaction I got from unlocking that cup is far greater than anything I've experienced in games, and it was largely because it was so hard to get there.

The game was difficult but never, ever unfair. You had a chance to win every track on any difficulty. It's easily in my top 10 games ever.
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