Topic: So what are your disappointments with Wind Waker

[odinfire]

I realize this post may be somewhat on the negative side but what do you have to say?

When I first started playing WW the exact question of keys came up. There is really no point anymore. In the old games you sometimes even had to figure out how to get them. (i.e. killing all the enemies, thrusting a wall, etc.) I especially dislike the lighting two torches to make the chest appear ??Puzzle?? Its not really a puzzle anymore now is it. Im almost completely through the game and never even touched a faq or gameguide. I remember the old Zelda was much more complicated.

While I do like WW, there are some things that just are NOT Zelda.

-- The original had 9 dungeons if Im not mistaken and even OoT sported 8 plus Ganon's Castle. What happened.

-- I really dont like picking up both Ice and Fire arrows at the same time. Integral items of Zelda have ALWAYS meant having to work for it not easing your way through a "mini-dungeon" or happen to warp yourself to the direct spot the game tells you. Sad. Very Un-Zelda. The fact that the Iron Boots and Gauntlets dont come with a full blown dungeon just sucks. That is either just laziness on the programmers part or a rush job to get the product out. VERY SAD.

-- In Addition A Zelda game would NEVER and I mean NEVER just GIVE you a sacred relic like WW has. (i.e. one of the pearls). Thats like OoT having a character just give you a medallion out of the goodness of their heart or in the original Zelda having someone walk up and give you a piece of the triforce with a smile. This HAD to be one of the dungeons that was axed to meet the release deadline. All in all it just sucks. Personally I would have rather waited a few more months for a full version the way it was intended. Its kinda the reason people want directors cuts of their DVD's.

-- Money means absolutely nothing in the game. Its too easy to come by and there really is nothing to buy except bait and getting your maps read by tingle.

-- And Im sorry... you just cant go from the overly opulant great fairies in OoT to the rather bland great fairies in WW. That was one part of the game me and my friends really looked forward too. What the hell were they going to do to top the great fairies in OoT. We were somewhat disappointed. Plus whats with not being able to go back to the fariy fountains and see the Great Fairies a second time. Again. Disappointing.

-- And where are the Boss Introductions? Things that OoT sucessfully introduced and Zelda should have retained are simply gone or missing.

Its a fine game, it gains in some areas and loses in others. I personally still like LttP and OoT the best but I would place WW in the 90 percentile. Graphics are fine it lends homage to the original but WW is definately a rushed product. Its polished with what it has, but its rushed. Lets just hope the axed dungeons show up in the next installment sometime next year. For complexity go back to Majora's Mask. Old school Zelda in 3D, just not the epic the original was.

And to end this post a personal suggestion:

Play Wind Waker without using the warp cyclones. With the one exception to gain a particular item. It helps to make you feel like you have earned the items in your arsenal. I've already put 25 hours into the game with two dungeons and Ganon's tower to go. I like to savor the flavor as I know another is not coming for a while.    

[NickNiteQ93]

I have to agree to some degree.  some points were more confusing than difficult.  But in OoT, don't you recall how you recieved the Light Medalion from Raru?  He gave it to you, willingly.  All you had to do was pull the master sword out.  so I can see the similarities between them.  however, it doesn't take very long, and you live almost forever.  I died a total of 3 times.

[Giolon]

*Possible spoilers*

"The original had 9 dungeons if Im not mistaken and even OoT sported 8 plus Ganon's Castle. What happened."

There is Forsaken Fortress + Dragon Roost + Forbidden Woods + Tower of the Gods + Forsaken Fortress Redux (doesn't really count, but it's there) + Wind Temple + Earth Temple + Ganon's Castle = 7 Dungeons (Didn't double count FF) PLUS all the extra mini-dungeons, Treasure Hunting, and 42 other islands full of stuff to do.  That's quite a lot.  Majora's Mask only had 4 dungeons!

"Thats like OoT having a character just give you a medallion out of the goodness of their heart"

Hey, remember Rauru just giving you his medallion in OoT?  Oh yeah.

" And Im sorry... you just cant go from the overly opulant great fairies in OoT to the rather bland great fairies in WW. That was one part of the game me and my friends really looked forward too. What the hell were they going to do to top the great fairies in OoT."

I liked these fairies a lot better.  The four armed, sort of Buddha Goddess look was a good move to me.  I always thought the Great Fairies in OoT and MM looked like cheap hookers.  I never liked them, so I guess that is a point of pure taste and the same goes for the WW fairies.

"Money means absolutely nothing in the game. Its too easy to come by and there really is nothing to buy except bait and getting your maps read by tingle."

Money isn't any problem in OoT, Majora's Mask, or LttP either.  LttP had that little room with the thief in it under a rock that you could enter as many times as you desired to fill your rupees.  Oh yeah, how short our memories are.

Other than those these, I can see where the rest of your comlaints come from but I respectfully disagree.  WW is great.  Just because a game is "easy" doesn't mean that it's bad, a bad game in the series, or not enjoyable.  I don't feel that Ocarina of Time was much harder, and Majora's Mask was mostly only difficult from the time element.

[cmoney]

WW was definatly not rushed.

That's my only comment.

[Chris150]

The Great Fairys in Oot and MM scared me and my sister when we payed. They looked like female ganondorfs sorta... And they greated you with this crazy laugh. They Great  Fairys in WW seemed a lot more kinder and a whole lot less crazy. I like them, especially the Queen Fairy.  

[RahXephon]

yes, this game is the greatest incarnation of zelda goodness imaginable.  THERE.  And the queen fairy, whe was just too cool.  I wanna talk with her again....  Anyway i am anything but dissapointed.  All your negative points are just looking for problems and comparing ww to other games instead of taking it as something new.  It is the best yet.
25 hours and you THAT close to the end.  Didnt you run around to have fun.  Didn't you play all the mimgames and go to auctions and other cool stuff.  Do you even have the picto box.  Are you using FAQs or rushing.  25 hours and near the end seems like YOU rushed and not the game.  

[BlkPaladin]

I had a strategy guide and it took me about 56 hours to get done. (But that's because I didn't open up the guide until I made it to Gannon's Tower and went back to get the stuff I missed. Which I didn't really need.)

[theaveng]

---I would have preferred more dungeons. Here's a rough breakdown:
OOT WW
-3- -3- Gemstone Dungeons
-5- -2- Sage Dungeons
=============
-8- -5- TOTAL
Rather disappointing for me.

---The sea voyages were long and tedious.  Some sort of "Time x4" function would have been nice early in the game.

--- The bosses were all wimps.  In Ocarina every boss killed me at least once (some many times!).  In Wind Waker, I didn't die once.
And no, it's not just the reduced damage.  The bosses in Ocarina didn't just inflict more damage.  They were also a lot harder to hit.  Phantom Ganandorf was a major pain in the ass to kill.  Ditto the Twinrova witches.  Those Ocarina bosses required a LOT of skill to hit.  Not so with the Wind Waker wimps.

--- The story was rather weak.  I wish they had used more cutscenes explaining what the Master Sword is, why the Triforce is important, where Ganandorf came from, who the Goddesses are, why the Sages exist, and so on.  They did this stuff in Ocarina, so don't understand why they skipped it here.  After all, not everyone's played Ocarina.  The backstory should have been fleshed out a little more.

--- Too much wandering around doing collection fests.  Same flaw as Starfox Adventures.  
   (Irony: When Starfox did it, people thought it was annoying.  When Link does it, then it's okay.  Don't understand that.)



Just so I'm not completely negative:
- The anime-style graphics are beautiful.  I hope to see more games like this.  Like Mario.  Or Pikmin.  Or even Animal Crossing.  Looking at an animation is more satisfying than looking at traditional CGI.
- The surround sound is flawless.  Probably the best surround sound I've ever heard!
Troy

[Bloodworth]

I can't see how anyone could like the Great Fairies from OoT/MM.  Although I'm not into the four-armed thing, I like WW's Great Fairies much more.

[BlkPaladin]

You could speed up the sea voages by getting the Gales magic which is a warp magic.

:Spoilers"

YOu get it by shooting Cyclonus three time with an arrow.

[GoHuskers]

Right now I've just gotten to Ganon's Tower, but will have to wait a week to finish it considering I'm grounded for a week. As for my complaints....

-- Wow, this game was short. OOT took me like 4 times as long to beat. Probably because I was younger then, but still this game is short. There's only 5 dungeons and the only reason it takes any real amount of time at all is because you're finding yourself sailing for over half of the time. That brings me to my next point....

-- What's with all the ridiculous objectives that serve no other purpose than to piss you off. Examples being the quest to get the fire and ice arrows, the iron boots, and the gold rings. Another example would be the triforce chart on Outset Island. What the heck?!! That was completely pointless. It took me like 45 minutes and I only got hit a couple of times. My mom fell asleep while watching it. Instead of all the stupid sailing around and quests I just mentioned why not include a couple more dungeons?

--  Another thing, this game had little to no character interaction. The only thing you really talked to a lot was your boat. Other than him you just sailed around most of the time. This complaint kind of coincides with my next.

-- Before getting the game I read all about how massive in size this game was. I got really excited and was let down when I got the game. There's really only three large islands where there's anyone to talk to and only one of those has stuff to do. I bet if you took all the land area in WW and put it together it wouldn't be much bigger than Hyrule in OOT. Shoot, it might even be smaller. This really dissappointed me.

-- I was also disappointed with the way the characters looked. I mean the backrounds looked awsome, but the characters looked very poor. For all those suggesting someone get a CAT scan for not liking the graphics I have to laugh. You honestly think this is better than realism? OOT and MM may have looked bad by todays standards with blocky somewhat discolored figures, but look at what they can accomplish now. The characters in WW reminded me of the characters in Mario Party 1. They looked like they used the same style only in WW the characters had fingers and were a little more smooth. The cel-shading was all right and it was a lot better than what I had originally anticipated, but the characters kind of made me mad. Look at Ganondorf for cryin' out loud. When I first saw his face I burst out laughing.

-- You can read theaveng's post about the story. It's exactly what I think.

Now with all of my complaints aside I will say this is a great game and I'd recommend it to anyone. However, as great as this game may be, it's definately not as good as OOT. Too short, too much time spent doing nothing, and not enough interaction. Still, a great game none-the-less. I'd give it a 9.5/10, but not the 10/10 I gave OOT. BTW, just to please some of you I didn't use any sort of strategy guide or anything like that.

Lastly, did anyone enjoy the earth temple as much as I did? Great level.

[yellowfellow]

personally, i believe the graphics were very well done, however, at some points (especially towards the end of the game) the textures were just lacking.  to say cell-shading doesn't allow for textures is just plain horse$hit... look at some of the stone and brick textures, amazing.  however others, like the knights in hyrule castle (the ones that cross their swords when link pulls out the master sword) look like the polygon characters from the original starfox.

some things were just incredible though, like the wind temple boss... he looked frikin cool.

all in all, i really enjoyed WW and have already started the second quest, after beating it today.  alttp was by far my favourite zelda (with the original second and Oot third) and well, this one seemed more in line with those zeldas.

as for getting a pearl right away, i prefer that kind of assymetry with the story... learning about these temples you have to go to get something and then once all things are recovered the temple rises and then you face the last temple, is so cliche now.  true,  it's obvious a couple temples were removed and it would've been nice to have these temples, focusing on making the story flow seems to be the trend now, and i like it.
remember what denis dyack said, that "back when movies were [young]" people were using camera tricks to "get noticed", but once the camera was standardized then "those with the content were the ones getting recognized" and with todays plateauing technology, the same thing is happening.

[Rellik]

The Earth Temple?  A great dungeon?  ...maybe that's something to think about.  I hated something about that level.  I like a little tension and horror now and then, but that level just completed exploited it.  It wasn't really that scary, but every time you go into a new room there's something annoying to threaten Melodi... it wouldn't be so bad if you didn't have to switch to control her.

That puzzle at the end was AWESOME!  Unfortunately, it was WAY too easy... it looks complicated, but it's fairly linear.  Are the developers afraid to make us spend time on puzzles anymore?

I thought the ice-boots and power-bracelets thing was cool... I have no complaints with that.  It's more fun if you can get in there, see new sights, fight some battles, get a new item, and then get out so you can do what you really want to do again.  I get the feeling that there are two types of Zelda-players: those that play for the dungeons, and those that play for everything else.  Of course it's not mutually exclusive, and everyone likes most of everything, but there's a distinct difference.  I agree that there probably should have been more big islands, perhaps a couple that took up more than one block, and more than one per block of the small ones... but if that were to happen, I think that would make the map too big, taking too long to get across and taking too much memory.  Maybe in the future, but for now, this size with one island per block, mostly small, is just fine.

Why does dungeon-count even matter?  Oh yeah, I forgot again... some people play for the dungeons.

[Okiva77]

I love Wind Waker, its a beautiful and fun game, but hell--i have problems with it too.  To the immature, foolish, childish fanboys/girls who think there is nothing wrong, give us a break.

Negatives:

Too easy. Its a Zelda standard to have things essentially spelled out for you, with different color type or some naked clue, but come on. This game has been hella easy so far. The bosses are indeed wimps. Gogeous to behold and exciting to experience, believe me, but small challenge.

Item collecting. What, did Rare have a hand in this game? Find the map, find the treasure. Yawn.
And what the hell is up with the iron boots and gold bracelets? I too wish Nintendo had delayed the game to include the axed dungeons. I want to EARN this shiznit. With the power of the Cube, there could have been more enemies in certain areas of the dungeons.

That's about it for me. Im really enjoying the story and how its presented. It's a bit too easy and too much f'ing collecting, though i guess treasure hunting makes sense with the ocean theme.
I still recommend Wind Waker highly. I still think the best games are A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time. Still king and queen to me.

[Gibdo Master]

Quote
Originally posted by: odinfire
-- Money means absolutely nothing in the game. Its too easy to come by and there really is nothing to buy except bait and getting your maps read by tingle.

I have to completely disagree with this. If you are trying to get all the heart pieces as well as any side quest money is a big deal in this game. Most things are very expensive and rupees maybe easy to come by but you still don't really get enough considering there are some items that are necessary for getting everything that are 900+ rupees. Money in Ocarina of Time on the other hand was completely worthless in my opinion pretty much the only thing you had to pay for was the minigames and the shield at the beginning of the game. Everything that you could buy in the stores could be fairly easily obtained for free. Sure you couldn't get potions for free but with fairies what was the point anyway.

Although I originally said the dungeons were pretty challenging I now take that back. I've whizzed through the last few with very little problems. I've been able to walk into a room and in a matter of seconds figure out how to solve the rather simple puzzles. Most of this stuff is things we've already seen in Ocarina and then it's usually at its simplest and easiest form. If we are going to light torches at least make it challenging by making us run from one end of the room to the other or makes a go through some complicated maze.

Or how about that just about every puzzle revolves around stepping on switches. Did the game designers make these puzzles with the mentally challenge in mind. It certainly doesn't take that much brain power to walk into a room, see a switch, and know that you have to step on it. Especially after it's the thousandth room with one. *Oh, no this switch won't stay down when I walk off it! What ever shall I do. Oh, there's a statue over there that I can pick up and put on top of it. Jesus that was the hardest Zelda dungeon puzzle ever. I'm glad that's over!* Or how about when you have to move blocks around and it's been set up so that you can only move them where they are supposed to go. It's actually pretty pathetic just how easy they made the puzzles. Hell, you can barely even classify most of them as puzzles. I just hope this isn't a trend will see with future Zelda games.

All in all the game is still great and in my opinion is one of the best Zelda games. Looking at its story and other ground breaking things it's the best Zelda game but judging it by it's difficulty and similar factors it definitely falls short.
 

[zumpiez]

Quote
Originally posted by: Okiva77
Item collecting. What, did Rare have a hand in this game? Find the map, find the treasure. Yawn.
And what the hell is up with the iron boots and gold bracelets? I too wish Nintendo had delayed the game to include the axed dungeons. I want to EARN this shiznit. With the power of the Cube, there could have been more enemies in certain areas of the dungeons.

One Iron Boots dungeon in my lifetime was enough, thank you. ^_^

[theaveng]

Money wasn't very useful in Ocarina was it?  Yes, you could buy potions and equipment, but I never did.  It was easier to just pull it off the dead corpses of monsters you defeated.
As for buying Wind Waker's triforce map translations, I think it's ridiculous.  I'm going around and cutting stupid grass just to find rupees.  Collecting these rupees is about as pointless as collecting the notes in Banjo-Kazooie... except of course, Banjo-Kazooie was a lot more fun than cutting grass.

Quote
Originally posted by: BlkPaladin
You could speed up the sea voages by getting the Gales magic which is a warp magic.

Please re-read: "Some sort of "Time x4" function would have been nice EARLY in the game."  Previous sea-voyage games I've played had that speed-up function, because staring at oceans is not very exciting.
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.
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I just reached the "sail the world and search for triforce maps" section. My God! This is like torture!!! Wasting days on end, sailing on a boring sea, and searching every-nook-and-cranny is horrible.  ZELDA SUCKS (well, the Wind Waker anyway).

Up to this point I thought, "Well Wind Waker's good... just not as good as Ocarina," but now I think it's the worst A-list title I've played in the last year. This tedious triforce task is worse than my job. There's no fun here.

I've whipped out the guide now. I'm not going to waste my time playing hide-n-seek with riforce maps.  Man, Ocarina was 1000% better than this WW triforce search crap.  Even Starfox Adventures was better.

Troy  

[thecubedcanuck]

I agree Ocarina is a MUCH better game. WW has been a real dissapointment for me, I just cant believe how dull, easy, and spoon fed to you most if it is.

[yellowfellow]

yes, the triforce quest was tedious but hardly difficult. i mean the places for all the maps are on the freaking map tingle gives you... i have no idea what you mean by having to search every nook and cranny... especially since alot of you are arguing that the islands were too small...

and if you want lots of rupees go through the savage dungeon for a bit... the enemies don't give you rupees, but the jars at the end of each section give you a fair amount...

[thecubedcanuck]

re tingle

There is no way in hell I am buying a freaking gameboy so I can get an extra in a game I have already payed for. I think this whole concept is utterly rediculous. This is the king of crap MS would pull, you want this you have to buy this as well then.

One is a handheld one is a console, leave them seperate, or at least give people who have no desire at all to buy a handheld they will never use another option as far as accessing tingle.

Nintendo is really starting to wear on me.

[yellowfellow]

it's called an added bonus to those who have a GBA as well, it would be utter horse$hit if the two were required to play a specific game (unless the game was SO groundbreaking everyone had to play it)...

in this case, it's smart since SO many people have a GBA already and these extras just add another reason to warrent a purchase of a game

[Gibdo Master]

What the hell are you bitchin about thecubedcanuck. You do not have to use the Tingle turner to complete the game. The only real point to the Tingle turner is to make the game easier (as if it wasn't easy enough) and you can find some fairly useless treasure with it.  

I don't even understand what the hell the point was to posting that comment.

[thecubedcanuck]

relax. Man some of you guys get defensive.
It doesnt matter anyways as I will never finish WW, I just cant stand playing it anymore.

 

[Gibdo Master]

Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
There is no way in hell I am buying a freaking gameboy so I can get an extra in a game I have already payed for. I think this whole concept is utterly rediculous. This is the king of crap MS would pull, you want this you have to buy this as well then.

Oh, and like that whole bit there wasn't offensive. Yet if someone gets defensive over that then they are wrong for doing that. Frankly I'm glad you'll be missing out on the rest of Wind Waker. Good way to punish yourself. Sure it has its faults but over all it's a great game.

[GoHuskers]

If I need rupees I just find a fish and play that little game of his where you have to shoot him with arrows. For every one time you hit him you get 10 rupees and if you hit him all 10 times, which isn't incredibally hard to do, he gives you a total of 200 rupees.