Topic: The Conduit

[Morari]

Actually, Red Steel was just bad.  Don't use it to measure newer games.

Fixed reticule doesn't work on Wii anyway.

I don't see why it wouldn't. Wii is the first console that has a shot at making the FPS genre playable, and yet it's stuck playing like any other console. Moving the reticle around, especially having to move it to the sides of the screen in order to look to either side, is just not an elegant playing style. It's slow and clunky. There's a very good reason that first person shooters have always sucked on consoles, and it has a lot to do with slow, imprecise aiming. The Wii remote is basically a 3D mouse, which could theoretically be a very adequate alternative to the traditional PC setup.

And I didn't think that Red Steel was overall that bad. It was kind of bland visually, and the enemies were general dumb, but it had potential and certainly wasn't painful to play through. It was a lot better than Halo.

[RABicle]

All I know is that I couldn't stand to play Red Steel for more than an hour or so at a time precisely because of the reticle moving around the screen instead of the screen moving around the reticle.

I couldn't stand to play Red Steel for more than an hour because it was freakin' terrible.

Here is a question, what ever happened to FPS games that were broken up into missions ala Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, and Timesplitters?

Half Life happend.

[Nick DiMola]

All I know is that I couldn't stand to play Red Steel for more than an hour or so at a time precisely because of the reticle moving around the screen instead of the screen moving around the reticle.

I couldn't stand to play Red Steel for more than an hour because it was freakin' terrible.

Here is a question, what ever happened to FPS games that were broken up into missions ala Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, and Timesplitters?

Half Life happend.

Very true, too bad not many games do it as well as Half Life did it.

[Plugabugz]

Also, IGN's movie viewer is an evil piece of crap.  I'd rather choke on buttered camels.

I agree, but just for completeness sake: BLASPHEMER!!!!!!!!

I'm not sure if i'm looking forward to this. I am, but i'm not. I'm not completely hooked. I want to go ooh first.

[Dirk Temporo]

Actually, Red Steel was just bad.  Don't use it to measure newer games.

Fixed reticule doesn't work on Wii anyway.

I don't see why it wouldn't. Wii is the first console that has a shot at making the FPS genre playable, and yet it's stuck playing like any other console. Moving the reticle around, especially having to move it to the sides of the screen in order to look to either side, is just not an elegant playing style. It's slow and clunky. There's a very good reason that first person shooters have always sucked on consoles, and it has a lot to do with slow, imprecise aiming. The Wii remote is basically a 3D mouse, which could theoretically be a very adequate alternative to the traditional PC setup.

The difference being that you can pick a mouse up, and set it down again. In order to get "mouse control" with the Wii Remote, they would need to have a button that would effectively shut off the pointer until you let it go, so you could reposition it.

It wouldn't work.

[ShyGuy]

how about a clutch you could grip and release?

[NWR_insanolord]

No matter how you implement it it will not be as good as you can get in Medal of Honor Heroes 2. I want this game to be Medal of Honor Heroes 2's controls (and online system) with better gameplay and a campaign that doesn't suck.

[DAaaMan64]

I really was completely unimpressed with heroes 2. I had been coming out of a Team Fortress 2 stint, and Heroes is crap compared to TF2.  I will say it's components were the best part.  But give us MKWii online system instead.

[NWR_insanolord]

MK Wii's online system was good, but the lobby system in MoH:H2 let you easily find a game with the number of people, the map, and the type of game you wanted, and it let you play with friends without entering friend codes or even inviting people. And the gameplay probably wasn't that great, I don't know the genre well (I've only owned 4 FPSs in the last 8 years) and I still found faults with the gameplay, but I liked the controls and the online play well enough to overlook them. I want those good parts in a better game.

[mantidor]

Guys, this is a game about giant, alien bugs invading Washington DC and an elite, secret government agent who must single-handedly save the human race.

If this were coming out on any other system we would be laughing our asses off right now.

This is the description of pretty much every single FPS in the market right now, specially the "high rated" ones from Half-Life to Crysis.

At least this one has some weird organic weapons.

[Smoke39]

Yeah, like an ordinary assault rifle only with ORANGE LINES WHEN YOU FIRE!

[Morari]

The difference being that you can pick a mouse up, and set it down again. In order to get "mouse control" with the Wii Remote, they would need to have a button that would effectively shut off the pointer until you let it go, so you could reposition it.

It wouldn't work.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. You should never have to pick your mouse up and reposition it in a FPS. Perhaps you set your sensitivity far too low? You should be able to do a complete 360 degree turn with an effortless flick of the wrist. That said, I'm still not convinced that it wouldn't work on the Wii. If the trend is to push your reticle up against the sides of the screen in order to turn, then I guess I'll just never like any console FPS. I can play that way with an analog stick, why would I want to with the Wii remote?

[Smoke39]

That you should never have to lift your mouse when playing an FPS is completely ridiculous.  Even if you do have your sensitivity way up, any time you turn your hand ends up off center.  And don't even think about circle strafing (or going up spiral stairs or anything of the like, for that matter).

For a fixed crosshair to work, you'd need some kind of analog to lifting and recentering a mouse.  Whether or not such a mechanic would be too awkward with the remote is debatable.  It doesn't sound terribly intuitive to me, though.

[Morari]

The cross hair would always be centered. That's the point. You simply wouldn't be able to move the crosshair around the screen, it would be fixed in the center and thus be much more closely tied into your looking as the screen would instead move around it. As opposed to moving the crosshair up against the side of the screen to pan in that direction, you could do so by simply point over that way, as you look always look around. This is how the FPS genre has always worked on the PC. It is clearly the best way of doing it as it eliminates the clunky need to look and aim separately. With the Wii remote this is an even more obvious solution, I think.

[animecyberrat]

I don't get how yous aid you could play that way on a "console" FPS but not the Wii? That statement makes no sense to me.

[EasyCure]

I don't get how yous aid you could play that way on a "console" FPS but not the Wii? That statement makes no sense to me.

neither did your post *migrane*

[mantidor]

Yeah, like an ordinary assault rifle only with ORANGE LINES WHEN YOU FIRE!

Thats already an overload of innovation for the FPS community.

[NWR_insanolord]

The cross hair would always be centered. That's the point. You simply wouldn't be able to move the crosshair around the screen, it would be fixed in the center and thus be much more closely tied into your looking as the screen would instead move around it. As opposed to moving the crosshair up against the side of the screen to pan in that direction, you could do so by simply point over that way, as you look always look around. This is how the FPS genre has always worked on the PC. It is clearly the best way of doing it as it eliminates the clunky need to look and aim separately. With the Wii remote this is an even more obvious solution, I think.

It's clearly the best way with a mouse, I don't think it is with the Wii remote. I suppose they could include it as an option, the more options the better. If they were to do it they should make it so that when you hold down a specific button it freezes the camera and lets you aim with the pointer for precision (Kairon could correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they did something along those lines (freezing the camera to aim) in Far Cry for the Wii).

[DAaaMan64]

Freezing the Camera to AIM was how they did in the first two metroid primes.

Something else to take note was how they did precision shooting in the Godfather and Scareface.  You'd lock on to an enemy then get to move within a square encompassing their body, allowing for easy, satisfying, and fun head shots.

[NWR_insanolord]

Freezing the Camera to AIM was how they did in the first two metroid primes.

Something else to take note was how they did precision shooting in the Godfather and Scareface.  You'd lock on to an enemy then get to move within a square encompassing their body, allowing for easy, satisfying, and fun head shots.

I know it worked that way in the Primes (I didn't play the first 2, but I knew that), I mentioned that Far Cry did it because it did it with the remote pointer. The system in Godfather and Scarface sounds similar to the lock-on system in Red Steel.

[Smoke39]

The cross hair would always be centered. That's the point. You simply wouldn't be able to move the crosshair around the screen, it would be fixed in the center and thus be much more closely tied into your looking as the screen would instead move around it. As opposed to moving the crosshair up against the side of the screen to pan in that direction, you could do so by simply point over that way, as you look always look around. This is how the FPS genre has always worked on the PC. It is clearly the best way of doing it as it eliminates the clunky need to look and aim separately. With the Wii remote this is an even more obvious solution, I think.

I understand the system you're suggesting.  You completely missed the point of my post.  Like I said as an example, how would you circle strafe?  You can't keep pointing the remote further and further in one direction indefinitely.

Yeah, like an ordinary assault rifle only with ORANGE LINES WHEN YOU FIRE!

Thats already an overload of innovation for the FPS community.

Unreal had an unconventional arsenal.  Half-Life and Opposing Force had organic weapons that were more than just colorful assault rifles.  Prey had funky weapons, though most of the organic ones were admitedly pretty conventional under their weird appearance.  So no, orange lines assault rifle isn't particularly inovative.

[Morari]

The cross hair would always be centered. That's the point. You simply wouldn't be able to move the crosshair around the screen, it would be fixed in the center and thus be much more closely tied into your looking as the screen would instead move around it. As opposed to moving the crosshair up against the side of the screen to pan in that direction, you could do so by simply point over that way, as you look always look around. This is how the FPS genre has always worked on the PC. It is clearly the best way of doing it as it eliminates the clunky need to look and aim separately. With the Wii remote this is an even more obvious solution, I think.

I understand the system you're suggesting.  You completely missed the point of my post.  Like I said as an example, how would you circle strafe?  You can't keep pointing the remote further and further in one direction indefinitely.

Hm, perhaps I did. I apologize.

That is a valid point. Obviously circle strafing would work through that and a combination of the analog stick's movement, similar to pressing the strafe key and aiming the mouse. You certainly would run out of screen space sooner or later with the Wii remote however. Perhaps a lock-on system could be thrown in? Then all one would have to do is use the analog stick to strafe while locked onto an enemy.

I remember feeding that critter weapon little green balls of goo in Opposing Force. That thing was pretty fun in multiplayer. Prey was chock full of missed potential, but still ended up being a radically entertaining game. It was by far the best use the Doom 3 engine saw.

[Dirk Temporo]

I'm not sure what you're getting at. You should never have to pick your mouse up and reposition it in a FPS. Perhaps you set your sensitivity far too low?

Even the pro FPS players don't have their sensitivity that high. It's impossible to actually AIM with your sensitivity that high. And what if you're turning right or left more than the other direction? Then you have to pick it up, no matter how high your sensitivity is.

Trust me, it wouldn't work.

[Morari]

Well, I don't know about pro gamers as they take themselves far too seriously for my tastes. I've been an avid fan of the genre since playing the original Doom way back when. As I aged and became involved in more serious modding and multiplayer matches (mostly Quake  2 & 3), setting the mouse sensitivity high was one thing that had to be learned. By not having the sensitivity high, one can't aim fast enough to kill before being killed. I generally play with it set just below the maximum and never have trouble with precise aiming, you just need to know how to make softer, more subtle wrist movements. It takes a helluva lot of biased turning before you run out of real estate on a typical sized mouse pad.

[Smoke39]

If you set the sensitivity that high on the Wii remote your view would be spazzing the hell out.  It's easy to let a mouse sit still on your desk.  It's not so easy to hold something in the air perfectly steady.