Topic: Rondo of Swords - UPB for the win

[bosshogx]

Updated Contest results:
Click here for the auction!

Bid tracking:
UltimatePartyBear - $19.80


Original Thread below:
Wow, no thread on this one?!  If you didn't know, it's a strategy RPG with a slight twist.  Instead of an attack command, everyone just moves through the enemy.  If you can move 6 spaces and 5 guys are in your path, you hit all 5.  If you pass through allies, you can earn support upgrades like extra health or attack/defense bonuses.

I just picked it up tonight and started running through the tutorial.  Really different.  I'm used to AW/FE where I can wall of my weaker units, not so in this game.  I can't even beat the last tutorial and I've tried it 5 times already.  Once I figure out what I'm doing wrong, I'll update again.

Here's an older trailer to the game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tDhbHbb_tk

[vudu]

I remember reading about this game a few months ago and it caught my interest.  I'm an AW/FE nut.

Please keep updating this thread with your thoughts of the game.  I'm torn between this game, FFTA2 and TWEWY.

[Kairon]

TWEWY

[vudu]

THE WORLD ENDS WITH YOU

[decoyman]

THE WORLD ENDS WITH DEE

[bosshogx]

OK, first update.

I'm on the 5th mission right now.  The way the combat works has taken me a long time to get used to.  Being able to attack through opponents just goes against everything I'm used to in a SRPG.  You can't hide your archers and casters behind tanks anymore.

I'm assuming that most FE players are like me, you don't want your characters to die and if they do, you start over.  Well, characters don't stay dead in this game, they just enter "hurt" status.  That means that they can participate in the next map, but have all their stats cut in half.  If they sit out a map, they are fine.

If the main character dies, the game is over and you have to reload.  An interesting and abusable strategy is that if you quit mid map, you can restart with the same party and keep all the experience you earned during the match.  You can also restart using a different selection of characters, but you lose the experience earned.  Sound too abusable to me.

Gameplay:

Here's where the frustration has really set in for me.  KDR and I have been having a discussion about user interfaces in RTS games in a different thread and I think I can finally see where he's coming from.  The UI in this game isn't that great.  To look at a character or enemies stats, you have to highlight the unit, press a, make sure not to move, press a again, and then move the arrow down to info and press a again.  3 button presses to get to info?!  UGH!  Why not just press R or L or something?

Another UI problem is that you can't leave the enemy attack range on the screen while moving your characters around.  There's also no way to tell the attack range of indirect units.  You can't click on a archer and see any attack ranges anywhere.  It's extremely frustrating.

The worst part for me is that I can't see how much damage I'm going to do or take from any attack.  Say my character has an attack of 30+24, the base being 30 and the bonuses from items/weapons/skills being 24.  I have no idea how much damage I'm going to do to an enemy with a defense of 16+4.  Once I attack, I do 103 points of damage.  Ok...

It's impossible to do math when you don't have all the variables.  In this games case, you don't know how much damage a weapon does and at least so far, you can't equip different weapons.  I've done the math twice where I saw how much damage I did, subtracted an enemies defense, and found my weapon damage to be 69.  When I did the same formula later, my weapons damage was 55.  WTF?!  Is there a damage range?

This is really frustrating because I hate losing characters.  Right now, I'm having to guess based on stats what kind of damage my characters will take.  Anyone who plays SRPG's will agree that guessing is the fastest way to losing.

My review thus far isn't shining, but I'm going to stick with it.  There are a lot of things I enjoy, it's just the UI is driving my FE-wired brain crazy.

[KDR_11k]

I don't think defense in RPGs is calculated linearly.

[bosshogx]

Alrighty, second update:

I'm about 10 or so missions in at this point and the game is getting a lot more enjoyable.  Most of what has changed has been my internal thought process about the mechanics of the game.  Since I find it functionally impossible to calculate damage in this game, I've changed my mind set to not worry if characters die or not.  If someone dies, then I simply restart the map again and retain all the experience I'd earned up to that point.  This helped some of my weaker characters out quite a bit and made me not worry so much about counting squares and checking inventory/abilities on my enemies.

Not to say that I rush in and restart each map a half dozen times, far from it.  On average, I restart each map only one time, but there was a particularly tough map that I restarted like eight or ten times.  My characters got really strong and made the next two maps a breeze.

I've also bolstered my roster to ten characters.  Each map will only allow you to bring six characters, one of which is always the main character.  My remaining characters that aren't participating in battle can go on mini-side quests, training, shopping, or take trials.

The side quests are random quests that offer a reward of some kind.  Almost identical to the side quests in Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced.  The quests thus far only last one mission and the rewards haven't been to hot.

Training allows a character to improve his/her stats.  You can choose general training or focused training.  General training allows you to raise your max hp, strength, and defense.  Focused training allows you to raise either your max hp, strength, or defense but the bonus is larger.  If you send a magic user to train, they increase their max hp, magic strength, or max magic points instead.

Shopping has your character going to the store to either buy or sell items, but not both.  Each character has different success rates and quantities that they can buy or sell.  I have one character who can only buy 2 items, but can sell 5.  His success rate is average based on the indifferent looking smiley face next to him.  I have a different character who can buy 3 items or sell 2, but has a great success rate due to her happy smiley face.  It's pretty bizarre.

I haven't done Trials yet, but from what I can tell it's how you upgrade your characters class.  They have to be at least level 15 and possess the upgrading item in order to change class.  I've got a few characters nearing that level, so I'll try it out and update it next post.

[bosshogx]

Ok, final update.

I'll just be straight up here, I'm getting rid of this game on Ebay tomorrow.  I just can't handle the UI and the severe lack of information provided by the game.  I really, really wanted to enjoy this game, but it was just not meant to be.  After playing it for about an hour today, I couldn't stand grinding levels over and over again to strengthen my characters anymore.  Of course it could be just me and everyone else who plays it might love it, but that's just a matter of taste I suppose.  Here's a final list of pros and cons:

Pros:
-decent hand drawn graphics
-customizable character skills
-death isn't permanent, just a one map sit out penalty
-35+ missions with 2 branching paths about 20 missions in
-unique combat system

Cons:
-absolutely terrible UI  (really, I could go on about this for a long time)
-characters are unbalanced and have far too much skill gaps between them
-no way to figure up damage causing guess work which leads to character deaths
-spell casters die in a single hit and cannot cast spells after moving
-items, skills, and 'super' techniques cannot be used after moving making them basically useless
-attack and spell ranges are not viewable making it impossible to judge distances
-grinding levels over and over gets repetitive
-all side quests give no explanations on who is good at them or if you will pass or fail
-shopping is a lesson in frustration.  Items purchased are random and may or may not be bought.

I could go on, but the reality is that I'm through with this game.  I really wanted to like it honestly.  After playing AW, FE, and FF Tactics, it's really hard to take a step back into this game.  I see that they were going for something different, as Atlus tends to do, and I applaud them for it.  But there is no reason for making me go through 4-5 steps just to check an enemies stats/skills when the same thing can be accomplished by pressing a single button.  Do I really need both L and R to cycle through my characters?  Why not L for that and R for unit information, it worked in other titles.

If you hated FE/AW/FFTA or you want to try something new, then maybe this game is for you.  If you hate all of the numbers and statistics of strategy games and don't mind level grinding, then this is definitely for you.  Being as this is a Nintendo forum, I'm willing to bet this is not the case.

Anyway, like I said earlier, I'm going to ebay this sucker and try and recoup some money.  If anyone is interested in buying it from me, please send me a PM.  I'll be willing to sell it for $20+shipping.

Later

[vudu]

Looks like I'm waiting for FE DS.  This is disappointing.  I the idea of attacking along your path is a neat concept, and it sounds like it would have worked pretty well if it were better executed.

Sorry it didn't work out too well.  Thanks for taking one for the team! 

[bosshogx]

Looks like I'm waiting for FE DS.  This is disappointing.  I the idea of attacking along your path is a neat concept, and it sounds like it would have worked pretty well if it were better executed.

Sorry it didn't work out too well.  Thanks for taking one for the team! 

Ah well, you win some you lose some.  Hopefully I can get at least $20 or so for it on Ebay.  I went to Gamestop to trade it in and they were only giving $10 for it.  I thought trade in values were bad when I worked there.  It's only been a week for goodness sake.  Sigh....

[Flames_of_chaos]

Looks like I'm waiting for FE DS.  This is disappointing.  I the idea of attacking along your path is a neat concept, and it sounds like it would have worked pretty well if it were better executed.

Sorry it didn't work out too well.  Thanks for taking one for the team! 

Ah well, you win some you lose some.  Hopefully I can get at least $20 or so for it on Ebay.  I went to Gamestop to trade it in and they were only giving $10 for it.  I thought trade in values were bad when I worked there.  It's only been a week for goodness sake.  Sigh....

You can always try to ebay it, gamestop is terrible with trade ins. I heard that blockbuster is trying to step up their videogame business maybe try trading it in there since on average they give generous trade-in values when I worked there (I think it's about 45 - 60% of MSRP) if you can stand blockbuster.

[bosshogx]

Ah well, you win some you lose some.  Hopefully I can get at least $20 or so for it on Ebay.  I went to Gamestop to trade it in and they were only giving $10 for it.  I thought trade in values were bad when I worked there.  It's only been a week for goodness sake.  Sigh....

You can always try to ebay it, gamestop is terrible with trade ins. I heard that blockbuster is trying to step up their videogame business maybe try trading it in there since on average they give generous trade-in values when I worked there (I think it's about 45 - 60% of MSRP) if you can stand blockbuster.

Click here to get updates on my auction.

Let's have some fun with this.  I'm hereby instituting a NWR member bidding contest.  The rules are simple: State a given dollar amount that you believe the bid will end on.  Whomever has the closest bid without going over wins, ala Price is Right.  One guess per user.  No bids will be excepted after 7:00pm eastern standard time this Friday.  The auction will end on Saturday around 7:00 eastern, so that leaves 24 hours of sniping and chaos to ensue!  No repeating bids that someone else already stated.  First person to bid on a specific value gets that bid.  The total will not include shipping/handling, only the winning bid.  Feel free to undercut and leverage other members bids.  Remember, there are no friends in Price is Right! 

Example:

Bids: a=$19.50, b=$12.50, c=$17.00, d=$23.12, e=$.01
(e would win if the result falls between $.01 and $12.49)
(b would win if the result falls between $12.50 and $17.00, ect.)

Actual winning bid: $19.80
(a would be the winner because $19.50 is the closest to $19.80 without going over.)

To spice it up a little, I will give away a free virtual console game, valued at 500-600 points to the winner.  If you nail the price exactly, I will up the value of the game to 1000.  I will update the first post with everyones bids as they show up.  Oh, and please do not bid on my auction in order to boost your chances of winning, unless you really want the game.   

[UltimatePartyBear]

I guess $19.80 because, let's face it, someone's got to now.

[bosshogx]

I guess $19.80 because, let's face it, someone's got to now.

Just so you know, you almost got me in trouble here at work due to my LOLing.

Bid confirmed!

[bosshogx]

Only one bid?  Disappointing to say the least.  Either this forum is dead or people just don't care.  Oh well.

[Kairon]

I'm about 10 or so missions in at this point and the game is getting a lot more enjoyable.  Most of what has changed has been my internal thought process about the mechanics of the game.  Since I find it functionally impossible to calculate damage in this game, I've changed my mind set to not worry if characters die or not.  If someone dies, then I simply restart the map again and retain all the experience I'd earned up to that point.  This helped some of my weaker characters out quite a bit and made me not worry so much about counting squares and checking inventory/abilities on my enemies.

Not to say that I rush in and restart each map a half dozen times, far from it.  On average, I restart each map only one time, but there was a particularly tough map that I restarted like eight or ten times.  My characters got really strong and made the next two maps a breeze.

If not for all your other negatives for the game, this would probably make me want to buy it.

[bosshogx]

Well PartyBear, it looks like you are going to win uncontested.  PM me with your Wii code and VC game of choice and I'll gift it out to you.

[UltimatePartyBear]

Nah, I wouldn't feel right winning a prize with no competition.  Thanks, though.

[WuTangTurtle]

yo bosshogx, give Yggdra Union a try.  It's definitely something different but if you like AW/FE/FF etc you would probably like this too.

[bosshogx]

yo bosshogx, give Yggdra Union a try.  It's definitely something different but if you like AW/FE/FF etc you would probably like this too.

Played through and beat Yggdra's Union already.  I actually helped you through YU with a monster review that i wrote quite a long time ago in a thread that you created.    Check it out:

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=19796.0

I actually ended up saving that review into a .txt file so that I could use it later on if need be.  So who's down for some Advance Wars or Starcraft?!  Bosshogx=strategy game freak!   

[WuTangTurtle]

seems like i forgot who helped me out on that one

By the way thanks a lot, I've pushed that game onto some other friends of mine as well, one of which unfortunately has had a hard time on returning it....