Topic: They were wrong... [Online lag isn't improving]

[darknight06]

Tekken 5 DR online was no better than this and it doesn't have nearly the online numbers, neither was Capcom Vs. SNK 2 EO or Kaillera in general.  How many times am I going to have to say this, fighters online simply don't work and can hardly be played semi seriously.  The only thing I can ever tell anyone in regards to this is to use a LAN adapter and if possible, upgrade your service.

Mario Kart will probably be a **** ton better than this game online for the simple reason that it's not nearly if at all as input sensitive and it's not nearly as reliant on being neatly on sync with all players because everything in games like that is based off of approximations.  MoHH2 gets away with 32 people for this very reason, Mario Kart online will basically be identical to it.  Hell the DS game was better for matchups than SSBB even with all the cuts made to it and that's on a 2mbps connection max.  Smash can't get away with that because as a fighting game, one input could mean the difference between winning and losing, and when items are thrown into play that just means more crap that has to be synched between 4 players. 

There was no way Sakurai was going to win this one and he knew it, hence why he gave the warning that NOBODY seemed to take heed on before the game was launched.  If he decided to remove the items from online play, it may have smoothened out the experience some, but then you'd have an entire group of people who'd bitch that it's not really Smash.  If they limited it to two people, it would've helped immensely as well, but then it would've been seen as catering to the hardcore Smash tourney group only and once again people would've been vocal about lack of 4 player online.  One of the better things they could've done was reduce the framerate to at least 25fps, which would've helped cut back the input delay so that it could be real time or closer to real time depending on distance, but then you'll have people bitching about the framerate being unplayable online and that they want their 60fps.  So what did we actually get, everything and the kitchen sink in terms of features but a usually unplayable game when more than 2 people are involved, and I'll bet you it's going to stay this way for the most part too.  Bitch all you want, that's just how it is.  There's a reason why FPS's and racers are really popular online games, they're a lot easier to get to work, it's that simple. 

One more thing, when Marvel VS. Capcom 2 was put on the original X-Box, it was probably the only game of theirs with no LIVE competitive online gameplay whatsoever.  I think the reason why would be very obvious to anyone familiar with the gameplay, which was why I thought Sakurai was nuts to want to put SSBB online in the first place.
If Capcom could'nt get it straight with a full on wired ethernet connection, what the hell makes you think Nintendo would get it straight with the Wii's internal WiFi that has a smaller pipeline for data than the average DSL connection?

[Smash_Brother]

Tekken 5 DR online was no better than this and it doesn't have nearly the online numbers, neither was Capcom Vs. SNK 2 EO or Kaillera in general.  How many times am I going to have to say this, fighters online simply don't work and can hardly be played semi seriously.  The only thing I can ever tell anyone in regards to this is to use a LAN adapter and if possible, upgrade your service.

Mario Kart will probably be a **** ton better than this game online for the simple reason that it's not nearly if at all as input sensitive and it's not nearly as reliant on being neatly on sync with all players because everything in games like that is based off of approximations.  MoHH2 gets away with 32 people for this very reason, Mario Kart online will basically be identical to it.  Hell the DS game was better for matchups than SSBB even with all the cuts made to it and that's on a 2mbps connection max.  Smash can't get away with that because as a fighting game, one input could mean the difference between winning and losing, and when items are thrown into play that just means more crap that has to be synched between 4 players. 

There was no way Sakurai was going to win this one and he knew it, hence why he gave the warning that NOBODY seemed to take heed on before the game was launched.  If he decided to remove the items from online play, it may have smoothened out the experience some, but then you'd have an entire group of people who'd bitch that it's not really Smash.  If they limited it to two people, it would've helped immensely as well, but then it would've been seen as catering to the hardcore Smash tourney group only and once again people would've been vocal about lack of 4 player online.  One of the better things they could've done was reduce the framerate to at least 25fps, which would've helped cut back the input delay so that it could be real time or closer to real time depending on distance, but then you'll have people bitching about the framerate being unplayable online and that they want their 60fps.  So what did we actually get, everything and the kitchen sink in terms of features but a usually unplayable game when more than 2 people are involved, and I'll bet you it's going to stay this way for the most part too.  Bitch all you want, that's just how it is.  There's a reason why FPS's and racers are really popular online games, they're a lot easier to get to work, it's that simple. 

One more thing, when Marvel VS. Capcom 2 was put on the original X-Box, it was probably the only game of theirs with no LIVE competitive online gameplay whatsoever.  I think the reason why would be very obvious to anyone familiar with the gameplay, which was why I thought Sakurai was nuts to want to put SSBB online in the first place.
If Capcom could'nt get it straight with a full on wired ethernet connection, what the hell makes you think Nintendo would get it straight with the Wii's internal WiFi that has a smaller pipeline for data than the average DSL connection?

That's great, except for the fact that my network connection sure as hell hasn't changed and yet that doesn't change the fact that people I connect to will randomly have better or worse connections, typically depending upon what time I play with them, meaning that the congestion of the Gamespy servers is directly linked to the quality of the online connectivity.

In short, Nintendo is still to blame. Sorry.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I still amazed Brawnline played as well as it did across AN OCEAN the other night.

So instead of being a lame onrine "I MUST PLAY THE BEST AND BE THE BEST" tourney game, it became a competitive lol-tastic party game (one of the franchise's inherent perspectives, and strengths).

[Smash_Brother]

I suppose I'm not so upset about the lag so much as the inconsistency.

If it was consistently a half-second delay, I could learn to play all the characters that way and be done with it, but it changes, and I mean to the same person on a nightly basis.

[DAaaMan64]

Please take the lag out, I will not tolerate 1/2 second lag ever. I'm okay with the funtastic idea of it, but in terms of being a competitive matches between friends, I cannot play my best.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Then visit your friends.

[DAaaMan64]

Then visit your friends.

Not if my friends are you guys.

[Smash_Brother]

Yeah, our matches were pretty laggy, sadly.

[DAaaMan64]

Yeah, our matches were pretty laggy, sadly.

I can only hope it was me at fault. that would be the saddest of all.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Be like Nintendo.  Don't compete.

[Urkel]

I've noticed a pretty significant improvement over the past few days.

Usually when I played in the middle of the afternoon, my matches ranged from moderate lag to slideshows. Now it ranges from mostly negligible to minor lag, with occasional moderate lag. I haven't gotten a single slideshow out of the last 30 or so matches I've played. I even played a couple that ran absolutely flawless. It can still take an annoyingly long time to match opponents, but even that has improved in general.

I was stunned when I first noticed this, since I imagine these are the peak hours. It's seriously been like night and day.

Am... am I the only one?

[NWR_pap64]

I've noticed a pretty significant improvement over the past few days.

Usually when I played in the middle of the afternoon, my matches ranged from moderate lag to slideshows. Now it ranges from mostly negligible to minor lag, with occasional moderate lag. I haven't gotten a single slideshow out of the last 30 or so matches I've played. I even played a couple that ran absolutely flawless. It can still take an annoyingly long time to match opponents, but even that has improved in general.

I was stunned when I first noticed this, since I imagine these are the peak hours. It's seriously been like night and day.

Am... am I the only one?

Probably, since I heard people say that they are not getting any lag, then coming back and saying that their matches lagged to a screeching halt.

The problem lies in the fact that the servers can't process four different connections at the same time.

[Smash_Brother]

It has been better but it can still be a crapshoot, I've found.

[Plugabugz]

SB your lag theory (about affecting us over here) is incorrect, i've yet to be affected by serious lag in any case. Just tiny smidgen when the characters "vanish" because they are farther ahead. There was even one person down in Japan playing us in about a dozen races last night.

[Smash_Brother]

SB your lag theory (about affecting us over here) is incorrect, i've yet to be affected by serious lag in any case. Just tiny smidgen when the characters "vanish" because they are farther ahead. There was even one person down in Japan playing us in about a dozen races last night.

I'm not sure what you mean by this...

[EasyCure]

i've been able to play matches against S_B, Vudu, Armak (plus his brother) and i think maybe one other member from this forum but thats it. Random matches still don't work for me and that is sad because i never seem to be on when you guys are, or if i am i either can't join your games or you don't let me (which is sad )

it sucks!

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Brawl and Mario Wheeling are totally different games.

Mario Wheeling plays better online because it's a much better game.

[Smash_Brother]

MK Wii will be on the same laggy servers Brawl is on now.

It's gonna have problems as well...

[NWR_insanolord]

It hasn't so far in Europe and Japan.

[NWR_pap64]

It hasn't so far in Europe and Japan.

That's what I've been reading as well. However, I suspect that they are using a different set of servers from the US Gamespy ones.

I think the game will become Lag heaven once all three regions log in at the same time.

EDIT: On the other hand, the game HAS been built around online so it might run smoother than Brawl.

We'll see...

[NWR_insanolord]

Has the lag gone away for everyone or just me? Over the past couple weeks I've played at least half a dozen matches (all friends) and there has been zero lag, just as smooth as if we were playing together in the same room. A couple of the matches involved 3 people on the same Wii and me on the other end and it still had no lag.

[DAaaMan64]

Can you do random matches yet?

[NWR_insanolord]

I haven't tried, actually I don't think I've ever attempted a random match. I'll try one later and check.

I wonder if the volume of people trying to play was a big part of the problem, and when enough people gave up it got better. Of course if this were the case word would get out that they work and the volume would be back and it would quit working again, and the cycle would continue for a while.

[nickmitch]

Pendulum effect, eh?

[Smash_Brother]

Tried playing tonight and the online system is still just as abysmal as it was at launch.

Actual matches aren't bad, latency-wise, but getting INTO a match is a nightmare.