Topic: Sonic Unleashed!

[Adrock]

I just can't figure out why Sonic Unleashed being multiplatform is such a trespass against Nintendo. Sonic is on f-ing everything now. I can understand wanting exclusives, but be reasonable. Seriously, Nintendo fans sound like a bunch of petulant children sometimes. Nothing is ever good enough.

There is no conspiracy against Nintendo. Stop being greedy.

[Caterkiller]

So do we know this is coming to Wii? Im getting my hopes up yet again for the 3rd or 4th time, but only 3 characters are said to be playable, and its in 2.5D that justifies some hope right?

[IceCold]

I thought you swore off Sonic Caterkiller?

[NWR_pap64]

I just can't figure out why Sonic Unleashed being multiplatform is such a trespass against Nintendo. Sonic is on f-ing everything now. I can understand wanting exclusives, but be reasonable. Seriously, Nintendo fans sound like a bunch of petulant children sometimes. Nothing is ever good enough.

There is no conspiracy against Nintendo. Stop being greedy.

Not to mention that this was common back in the GC days. When Sega made a Sonic game it was released on all three platforms, even when the GC version was the most successful one. Or, if they made a console exclusive Sonic title they made another one (like when they made Sonic Rush for the DS, then Sonic Rivals for the PSP).

Hell, if it wasn't for the fact that the game was co-developed by Nintendo Sega would've released "Sonic at the Olympic Games" on all platforms.

That's how the majority of third parties work. Development costs are higher than ever. Companies are demanding a lot out of their developers, everything from hi-res graphics to yes, even inventive ways of using the Wiimote. All of these things cost time and money and releasing the title on just one console could cut potential profits. The best way to do this is to release multiplatform. Even if a version doesn't do as well as the other its money they get back.

Hell, even the 360's best games are not console exclusives, like Guitar Hero, Rock Band, Assassin's Creed, The Darkness, Gears of War and many, many others. Even Bioshock can be gotten for the PC, and this was heralded at the best 360 title of the year.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate exclusive third party offerings, especially when they take advantage of the console it is on. Secret Rings was an awesome game, one that can only be found on the Wii.

But we can't pretend that all titles will be exclusive. Like I said, development costs are through the roof right now, and sometimes the need to release a title everywhere is a must. So be glad that Sega didn't ignore the fact that its titles do better on the Nintendo systems and made sure the Wii got its version of the game.

[Deguello]

I bet they'd make more money and also better games if they just cut out the consoles clearly not interested in their products.  The "high dev cost" is putting that cart before the horse.  Sega's dev costs are so high because they're supporting everything, not because dev costs are higher across the board for everybody.

I feel what Luigi Dude is saying.  Nintendo has to sell faster than the PS2, break records, become a cultural phenomenon, bust everybody's chops and drive their competitors into the dirt, just to be treated equally.  It just isn't fair.

Sonic on 360 and PS3 is just a waste of time.  They could make a truly special game for Wii, but instead opt to give **** to everybody.  Yahoo.

[NWR_pap64]

I bet they'd make more money and also better games if they just cut out the consoles clearly not interested in their products.  The "high dev cost" is putting that cart before the horse.  Sega's dev costs are so high because they're supporting everything, not because dev costs are higher across the board for everybody.

I feel what Luigi Dude is saying.  Nintendo has to sell faster than the PS2, break records, become a cultural phenomenon, bust everybody's chops and drive their competitors into the dirt, just to be treated equally.  It just isn't fair.

Sonic on 360 and PS3 is just a waste of time.  They could make a truly special game for Wii, but instead opt to give **** to everybody.  Yahoo.

I definitely understand what you are saying, since they do have to take the same concept and update it/downgrade it for three different platforms (hi-resolution graphics  for the 360 and PS3, motion controls for the Wii). But what is annoying me is the attitude behind this decision.

In fact, you further proved that Nintendo fanboys are acting like Divas and spoiled kids.

"We are number one! We are a phenomenon! We are everywhere! Why do we have to share our games with THEM? We are much better! AND I SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED CRYSTAL CHAMPAGNE!!!"

Fans are being selfish. If a company wants to make a multiplatform game then fine, if they want to make a console exclusive that's even better. But is selfish to believe that companies only work for one fanbase.

Like I said, I appreciate console exclusives, but if a game is multiplatform whatever.

[Caterkiller]

You know, I did say that didn't I? And for a long time I just didn't care about him anymore. Maybe Smash has lightened my mood towards Sonic. But its 2.5D so far and only Sonic, Knuckles, and Tails, and... You know what? this is how it starts every single time, just you wait and see, shooting or wolf ghost hunting will be Incorporated some where, and even though most of the game is running in a straight line the controls will be way out of whack.

For Sonic's story our fave 3 will  be playable but all 10+ other worthless animals will be playable in their own side of the story forcing you to play as them in a completely different and most likely boring ways.

Thanks for reminding me Ice Cold, I did drop Sonic(his own games any way) and I'm glad!

[Deguello]

I bet they'd make more money and also better games if they just cut out the consoles clearly not interested in their products.  The "high dev cost" is putting that cart before the horse.  Sega's dev costs are so high because they're supporting everything, not because dev costs are higher across the board for everybody.

I feel what Luigi Dude is saying.  Nintendo has to sell faster than the PS2, break records, become a cultural phenomenon, bust everybody's chops and drive their competitors into the dirt, just to be treated equally.  It just isn't fair.

Sonic on 360 and PS3 is just a waste of time.  They could make a truly special game for Wii, but instead opt to give **** to everybody.  Yahoo.

I definitely understand what you are saying, since they do have to take the same concept and update it/downgrade it for three different platforms (hi-resolution graphics  for the 360 and PS3, motion controls for the Wii). But what is annoying me is the attitude behind this decision.

In fact, you further proved that Nintendo fanboys are acting like Divas and spoiled kids.

"We are number one! We are a phenomenon! We are everywhere! Why do we have to share our games with THEM? We are much better! AND I SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED CRYSTAL CHAMPAGNE!!!"

Fans are being selfish. If a company wants to make a multiplatform game then fine, if they want to make a console exclusive that's even better. But is selfish to believe that companies only work for one fanbase.

Like I said, I appreciate console exclusives, but if a game is multiplatform whatever.

Pap, don't put words in people's mouths.  And in reality Nintendo fans expect to be treated the exact same as PS2 fans were treated last generation.  They got the majority of everything and exclusives.  When games sold better on the PS2 (and sometimes not) they closed ranks behind the market leader.  This "no console left behind" approach is a NEW thing that's happening just this generation.  It's a strange time to cite Ian, but he hit the nail on the head when it came to third parties on Wii.  For generations the SOP was support the market leader first and if necessary, only.  Now suddenly the rules conveniently change when Nintendo's at the top again.  A sudden change in behavior after almost 20 years.  IT's frustrating and even present on the DS, where it has soundly defeated the PSP in hardware and much more importantly, software.  Yet somehow the PSP still gets announcements, despite having software sales lower than the GameCube's.  And the press basically is back to their GBA-era "handhelds don't matter/exist" attitude now that the realization materializes that the horse race was over before it started.

If you can't see how this isn't fair and how it would engender feelings that third parties are either biased or stupid, then... well...  you can't see something very obvious.

Wii owners want exactly what the PS2 got.  Nothing more, nothing less.

[KDR_11k]

Heh, that PSP comment reminded me of Zoku Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, they have a lot of text talking about random things and one such text said the PSP was becoming a DVD player. Then again they also had a picture with signs saying "Next Wii shipment date unknown, plenty of PS3 in stock"...

[Luigi Dude]

In fact, you further proved that Nintendo fanboys are acting like Divas and spoiled kids.

"We are number one! We are a phenomenon! We are everywhere! Why do we have to share our games with THEM? We are much better! AND I SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED CRYSTAL CHAMPAGNE!!!"

Fans are being selfish. If a company wants to make a multiplatform game then fine, if they want to make a console exclusive that's even better. But is selfish to believe that companies only work for one fanbase.

Like I said, I appreciate console exclusives, but if a game is multiplatform whatever.

All Nintendo fans want is fairness, that's all.  Look at how the PS2 was the market leader last gen and it recieved the most third party support.  While look at the Gamecube and how it recieved hardly any support.  Third parties would always say the reason they weren't realising games on the Gamecube was because of the systems smaller user base.  While the PS2 got the most because they'd say it has the largest userbase so games will sell better.

Well now the market is flipped where Nintendo is the system with the largest userbase, and yet, it's getting the lowest amount of third party support.  Even though third parties say the 360/PS3 are so expensive to develope for not to mention take more time and need to sell a lot better, they continue to give both the 360 and PS3 more support.  Even though the Wii is the system that's cheaper, easier, and has the largest userbase, it continues to only recieve Gamecube level support.


Just look at what happend with the DS.  Even though the GBA was the market leader and the DS was it's successor, all the third parties were ready to jump ship to Sony with the PSP right away and gave the DS hardly any support.  Even though the PSP hardware sales were good, it's software sales were horrible yet third parties kept giving it better support.  It wasn't until the DS completly took over Japan and had a lead over 10 million until the third parties finally started to move support from the PSP to the DS.

The fact that Nintendo had to remain dominate in the handheld market, a market that they've always been dominate in just to recieve decent third party, is just pathetic.  All the third parties had no problem pledging full support to the PS3 back in 2005 because the PS2 was so dominate in the home market.  Yet they have a problem giving full support to the DS even though Nintendo had been dominate in the handheld industry since the very beggining.

That shows that third parties do in face have a bias against Nintendo and is the reason why we're recieving nothing but ports with only a few exclusive titles.  Until third parties start to actually give EQUAL support which we actually do deserve by now, Nintendo fans have a damn good reason to dislike some third parties.

[RABicle]

Am I the only one who enjoyed Sonic Adventure 1 & 2?

I enjoyed the sonic levels of 2. Unfortunately that was 1/6th of the game.
Also, in the closet I keep a deep dark secret that I adored the chao minigame and had both a n evil and an angelic chao.

I dunno, after "the scene" I'm not too sure Sonic can be saved.  And if you don't know what I'm talking about, rest assured that you don't know.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? "the scene" proved taht a human female only has to kiss Sonic for him to be saved!

And Luigi Dude, quit your bitching. Seriously. Gaming companies are just that, companies. THey go where the money is. They just **** up sometimes. There is no masonic order conspiracy against Nintendo.

[animecyberrat]

So obviously nobody where who is complaining ever owned a Genesis, even when Genesis was in the lead, Capcom, Namco, and Konomi all gave it the shaft leaving EA, Midway, and Acclaim mostly to fill in the gaps. This is not a new practice.

Sure Nintendo won in the end, but in the beginning and for a long while Sega was either on top or neck in neck, and yet they still got shafted by the big companies. Also look at it this way, Sonic Mega Collection *AND* Sonic Heroes (hey I don't care if you liked the game or not) the fact is BOTH games came out ON GAMECUBE FIRST, then MONTHS latter where ported to the others.

SO when Sega decided to make a game TRUE Multi platforms (as in leaving NOBODY OUT) people bitch? But when Namco, Capcom, and Konomi do the same thing (making their so-called multi platforms for 360 and PS3 shafting the Wii) nobody cares?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

They're old news.  We're not buying their games, so there's nothing more to discuss.

[animecyberrat]

I was dead &$&$ing serious. All the big companies, not just those three but ALL of the big companies have been picking and choosing who to back ever since time began.

Here's a thought, Ps1 was already market leader when Ps2 came out, so it made sense to jump on board right away. So naturally by the time ps3 was on the horizon everyone already had their resources tied to Ps3 projects and since Xbox blew past Nintendo so fast and since 360 came out first it made sense, from a business perspective, to jump on board that. When sales took off companies had to shift resources form ps3 to 360 but didn't want to lose time and money *already* invested so had no choice but to finish projects already started on Ps3. Since some of the bigger games take two or three years to complete, logic would dictate that said projects already begun would have to be finished to lessen loses invested in those projects.


So along comes Nintendoi, after *2* generations of being behind and *2* generations of pushing people around and being the big bad ass bully. NOW the Wii comes along and big companies naturally take a wait and see approach. This forces them to focus on the MS and Sony machines because they already invested heavily in those. Now a year after launch Wii is beyond a phenomenon, and they are starting to shift focus to the market leader. Well projects already in production for PS3 and 360 can't just be canned because those system still have their own market, 360 software still outsells Wii software for the most part. So big companies have to *start* making games exclusive for the Wii to make up for lost time, well they also need to finish projects started for the other consoles *and* make up for losses from previous titles that maybe didn't perform as expected.


Now everyone says Sonic on 360 bombed, wheres the sales numbers to prove this? Seriously if the numbers are so low as to show they couldn't have possibly made any money on it, then the claims Nintendo is being treated unfairly would hold some merit, except the other points already made by others in this thread, along with those in this here post. Then you have to also take into account, even though Wii makes money not all of the software on Wii sells up to snuff.


Then there is the fact that NOT ALL of the Sega fans nor all of the Sonic fans, have a Wii then Sega also knwos they can't further alienate whats' left of their loyal fanbase because that's what nearly killed them in the 90's so it makes sense both from a financial perspective and from a loyalty perspective to keep putting Sonic and as many of their main titles as they can, on everything they can.


Nobody cares that NiGHTs was Wii exclusive either? The Sega fans ate that up and will continue to eat that up regardless of what others think or say. Sega quality be damned, the fact is they still have a large fan base that they need to cater to.

[Ceric]

I

Am I the only one who enjoyed Sonic Adventure 1 & 2?

No.When I first got my Dreamcast I couldn't stop playing SA 1. It was buggy and the camera had issues, but damn it was a fun game!

SA 2 was good, although not as great as SA 1.

Well, I for one like every Sonic game I have ever played, even Heroes. I really wanted to get the one for Wii but I haven't been able to afford many games lately. This I will make budget for though,

for the 2 hours I played that one, it was crrrrapp with series control issues.

If you are referring to Secret ring you have to get about 1/4-1/2 way through before it clicks and then its great.  I personally would love a sequel with a few enhancements.

Sonic PS3 I really tried to play it but it was loading every few seconds for graphics that weren't that great.  I just got fed up with it before I could scratch the surface.

[Kairon]

As long as it comes to the Wii, I'm good. It can be multiplatform, that's fine. As long as it's feature complete and on the Wii I'm good.

[Deguello]

So obviously nobody where who is complaining ever owned a Genesis, even when Genesis was in the lead, Capcom, Namco, and Konomi all gave it the shaft leaving EA, Midway, and Acclaim mostly to fill in the gaps. This is not a new practice.

Sure Nintendo won in the end, but in the beginning and for a long while Sega was either on top or neck in neck, and yet they still got shafted by the big companies. Also look at it this way, Sonic Mega Collection *AND* Sonic Heroes (hey I don't care if you liked the game or not) the fact is BOTH games came out ON GAMECUBE FIRST, then MONTHS latter where ported to the others.

SO when Sega decided to make a game TRUE Multi platforms (as in leaving NOBODY OUT) people bitch? But when Namco, Capcom, and Konomi do the same thing (making their so-called multi platforms for 360 and PS3 shafting the Wii) nobody cares?

Uhhh, Midway, Acclaim, and EA supported the Genesis more because it had actually sold more in the US until the SNES muscled through with DKC and stuff.  The three other companies you list as "shafting" the Genesis all supported the Mega Drive in Japan, where it languished in a very very distant second, and so they stopped.  Notice how those two non-supporting market leader companies, Midway and Acclaim are dead or very near it.  EA quickly went to the PS1, which was the market leader, and profited.  The status quo is reinforced.

[animecyberrat]

I don't think that was how it happened at all. Acclaim sucked at making ports so they lost their rights to certain key games that made them rich, therefore costing them their bread and butter. It had nothing to do with putting games on the Genesis.

Namco stated they went with Playstation over N64 because of Nintendo's "bully" tactics. Capcom gave MORE support to Saturn than Genesis, and that system BOMBED out the door.

No sir, I do not think it was as you stated at all. In fact Midway and Acclaim did NOT give SEGA *MORE* support, SNES had EVERY game that Genesis got. They usually, with MK being the only exception, put the better versions on SNES.

I distinctly remember Square Also NOT making a single game for the Genesis. In fact they didn't switch to PS because of sales, it was due to size constraints involving cartridges.

Nintendo easily had the better support going in and it had NOTHING to do with Genesis sales, it had EVERYTHING to do with

1.) Success of NES convinced most people SNES would also be a success, and

2.) Exclusive Contracts devs had with Nintendo.


Capcom, Namco *AND* Konomi all said they would have supported Genesis more based on it's success, had Nintendo allowed them to earlier on.

We know that Sony paid Namco for their loyalty in the PS1 era, and again based on the massive success of PS3, Namco stuck with the money maker.


Capcom was the exact opposite of ALL your examples. As soon as their contracts with Nintendo was up, Saturn and PS got their full support, N64 got what 2, 3 games tops from them? N64 outsold Saturn in every region from day one. Then let's see Capcom went on to offer again more support for the doomed-from-the-start Dreamcast, this time Namco jumped on the bandwagon and EA, who had a habit of putting games on *ALL* systems decided to skip the DC because they "lost faith" in Sega due to their excessive hardware offerings.

Now according to the logic devs always go where the market leader is, why oh why did DC and Saturn get as much support as they did? Especially from Capcom (also one of GC biggest supporters not to mention the Wii too)

So it does go back to, 3rd parties don't always follow the market leader and their is a logical reason for that line of thinking.


Take Capcom, they wanted to make Mega Man 8 on the PS1, Sony said NO Way because it was 2-d, Capcom said fine and went to Sega, then Sony said ok here put it on PS1.


Now perhaps Capcom, and other devs who supported Sega, did so because of lack of competition. Think of it like this, EA, Midway, Namco, Konomi, etc, all jumped ship and left Saturn in the dust after sales dropped, but Capcom kept giving it support, as did Activision but that's a different story. Maybe their logic was if nobody else is making games for Saturn, they would have less competition for those who had bought a Saturn and weren't ready to abandon ship. This logic could also be why Activision and Capcom continued to support GC even after everyone else jumped ship to Xbox and Ps2.

But we could all be wrong and there *IS* some anti-Nintendo conspiracy going on and the world will end tomorrow.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

day after yesterday

[animecyberrat]

No, your wrong the Magic 8 ball told me.

[Ceric]

I will say this.  If you are the leader and developers still aren't supporting your system.  Something is wrong behind the scenes.

[RABicle]

I just cant understand a single thing rat has said. It's all way over my head.

[KDR_11k]

I think the lack of heavy Wii support might be because the 360 still sells more software.

[Deguello]

Actually KDR, at least for December, the Wii sold more software than the 360.  And in a global context, the Wii is very comfortably ahead of the 360 in that regard, mainly due to MS being a non-factor in Japan and their relative weakness in Europe as of late.

[Ceric]

Actually KDR, at least for December, the Wii sold more software than the 360.  And in a global context, the Wii is very comfortably ahead of the 360 in that regard, mainly due to MS being a non-factor in Japan and their relative weakness in Europe as of late.

I'm actually sort of surprised there so weak in Europe.