Topic: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?

[Mashiro]

As to not derail another thread I want to hear your opinions on which game you enjoy more and why.

I'm going to start by saying so far, Melee was far more fun for me. I found myself playing it every waking minute when it was first released and that enjoyment of playing lasted long after I had fully cleared the game.

For some reason, I don't get that joy from Brawl. I don't care about the stickers or trophies this time around. I just wanted to get all the unlockable characters and stages and be done with it just so I could use them all in multiplayer modes.

The fighting isn't as fun either for some reason. Maybe it's the slower speed or maybe it's the more "floaty" feel to the game but I can't get into the game like I get into Melee.

The items too don't stand out as much as they used to in Melee (minus the final smash orb). Too many items just seem to get "lost" in the stage design and many of them are so small they are hard to decipher when in a multiplayer match.

The online play is disappointing at best and really makes me wish Nintendo would have copied Microsoft with it's online structure.

If anything killed this title for me it was the delays. I just don't get that feeling of "Ohhhh this is why they needed the extra time" with this title.

The stages are the only aspect of the game that I say are (overall) better than Melee.

The roster also leaves a lot to be desired and all this extra time going into the game doesn't seem to have been well spent in terms of making unique characters.

I guess in the end it's hard for a game like Brawl to live up to the hype but that still doesn't make up for the fact that Melee felt more enjoyable of an experience.

Your thoughts?

[Shecky]

Your thoughts?

This is a poll

I just played 1on1 for an hour and liked it a lot... played a few slightly laggy matches online with S_B and (calib?) once two and remember when I DK bongo'd them both as they tried to seek shelter from lava on Norfair.... There have been a lot of funny moments... that I've rather enjoyed.  If I can get 4 ppl in one room this will be a blast. 

[Adrock]

I was wowed more by Melee than I am with Brawl now. I suppose the Smash dojo spoiled a lot, but at the same time, I feel that Melee was a much larger jump in terms of well, practically everything.

As you probably know by now, Subspace Emissary just didn't do it for me. Too many reasons why. And too many reasons why it should have been scrapped for more of what series fans really wanted.

Ultimately, they should have focused strictly on multiplayer, like Miyamoto wanted. Comparatively, Melee did much more in terms of refining the gameplay without disrupting the core. For example, the addition of charged smash attacks and an improved defense system among other things made the game feel completely different. I, personally, felt that it was nothing like the original. I had to essentially learn a new game and I didn't mind because Melee did all the new things well.

Brawl is very, very close to Melee in almost every way. The Smash Ball and Assist Trophies are interesting additions, but don't change the gameplay as much as the charged smash attacks did or 4 directional throws in Melee did.

Over the years, I've heard and even came up with a couple interesting gameplay additions I felt could have spiced things up in a new Smash Bros. I could give examples but I don't want to derail Mashiro's topic (if he gives the okay, I'll go over a few of them). The ideas are there, fans have talked about them for years and most of them, I'd say, still fit into the simple yet deep gameplay that Smash Bros. provides. It's these kinds of gameplay additions and refinements that's really missing from Brawl to set it apart from Melee.

As a fan of innovation and new gameplay mechanics that really change the fundamentals of a game, I'd say Melee was more fun than Brawl. At the same time, Brawl, so far, has remedied Melee's one glaring flaw: its unbalanced gameplay which, in the long run, may give it the edge.

[DAaaMan64]

You know it's been like... 4 days right?   Don't you think your jumping the gun?

[GoldenPhoenix]

You know it's been like... 4 days right?   Don't you think your jumping the gun?

I don't think that is fair. You pretty much know what much of the game is like, at least in the way of content (Like roster and single player modes).

[Dirk Temporo]

Brawl. The fights flow much better, and are much more fun in general.

[Ceric]

Brawl draws me to finish more of it than Melee does but, that has a lot to do with the little board that tells me what I need to do.  Which I like having the extra oomph.  I liike the Co-op modes and I like the variable difficulty in Event mode.  The large amount of music is good.  I also like the better range of moves on most of the characters.

Though I think Melee is at its core the better of the two.  I just like how it does things better.

Thinking about this I really think a lot of the inconsistancy through Brawl is due to the size of the development team and how it kept changing.  There was nothing tieing them together.  It shows.

A jack of all trades is master of none.  I think as an overall package Melee is of a higher quality standard.  In individual areas Brawl is better than Melee but there are to many inconsistancy, lost opportunities, and bad decisions.  For the time and the talk Brawl would be like a diamond that is only chipped and polished on one side.

I have to say that Brawl is to Melee what Kingdom of Hearts 2 is to Kingdom of Hearts.

You know this is hard.

[Adrock]

Thinking about this I really think a lot of the inconsistancy through Brawl is due to the size of the development team and how it kept changing.  There was nothing tieing them together.  It shows.

A jack of all trades is master of none.  I think as an overall package Melee is of a higher quality standard.  In individual areas Brawl is better than Melee but there are to many inconsistancy, lost opportunities, and bad decisions.  For the time and the talk Brawl would be like a diamond that is only chipped and polished on one side.

I agree.

[DAaaMan64]

You know it's been like... 4 days right?   Don't you think your jumping the gun?

I don't think that is fair. You pretty much know what much of the game is like, at least in the way of content (Like roster and single player modes).

I'm going to start by saying so far, Melee was far more fun for me. I found myself playing it every waking minute when it was first released and that enjoyment of playing lasted long after I had fully cleared the game.

So far I completely disagree, there are in-consistencies in the game.  But they tried hard to make something new, they didn't intend us to think they were being lazy, they just had a different vision.  I find this game much more balanced then Melee, for example, the heavy characters actually feel usable in this one.  I am at a point now where I can't find my best character, and I think that is because, the best cannot be picked out so easily.

This game is rock solid awesome for hours to come.

[Mikintosh]

You know it's been like... 4 days right?   Don't you think your jumping the gun?

I don't think that is fair. You pretty much know what much of the game is like, at least in the way of content (Like roster and single player modes).

Yeah, but you're judging an instant impression of Brawl (well instant on the "years" scale) based on almost a decade of Melee.

And based on what I've played of Brawl, I'd give it a nod above Melee. It fixes everything wrong with its predecessor, has more characters, items, and stages than Melee, has a solid 1-player mode which is leagues beyond Adventure mode, and controls the same, which means there isn't a single aspect of Melee which makes it superior. I'll grant Melee was a bigger evolutionary jump than Brawl, but that's not the question here.

I'd really like to know...what's this amorphous "core" quality you people are speaking of? It's fine to have your own opinion, but the "why" is right there in the question. Is there some glaring flaw I'm missing during all the fun?

[Dasmos]

I don't need to play Brawl to know it's better than Melee. Melee was a broken pile of confusion.

[Nick DiMola]

Melee all day long.

Brawl is too damned slow. Plus we have a round up of characters, none of which are particularly good at finishing off an enemy. It feels like you really need to get the damage meter above 100 for most people to really finish someone off. This also ties into my next point, jumping/gravity is too floaty. It gets really annoying for me, especially after playing Melee for all these years.

Lets see, what else bugs me? The mid air dodge is too flexible now. In Melee there was a tactic involved there. You could hit it and avoid a real devastating smash, but you were still vulnerable after, so you really had to weigh your options. With the mid air dodge in Brawl, you can just keep tapping the damn thing and avoid everything. It really takes the interesting part of the move away.

I don't like the seemingly random tripping either, or the Smash Ball for that matter. It is unbalanced as hell. Some characters have massively powerful Final Smashes while others have totally crappy ones. Plus you can't really use it in a serious match. It doesn't really take any skill and due to it's traversal about the map, someone getting stomped in the match can hit it and win a match without even trying.

Now I will give Brawl some credit; it did fix some of my issues with Melee. The roster is definitely more balanced (and clearly better), and all of the "advanced" moves (aka wavedashing, etc) seem to be impossible now due to the shift of execution with the mid air dodge. In addition, the music, levels and single player experience are also much better. Plus the stage builder is made of pure win.

I just think that Melee was a much more enjoyable experience and felt much cleaner than Brawl. I know that as the years pass, Melee will be first pick for me when choosing a Smash game to play.

I'd really like to know...what's this amorphous "core" quality you people are speaking of? It's fine to have your own opinion, but the "why" is right there in the question. Is there some glaring flaw I'm missing during all the fun?

I think this all depends on how much you played Melee. If you didn't really play it too much (or somewhat competitively), I'm not sure the difference would be that obvious. There is just something inexplicably different between the two. It very well may be just a personal preference that has developed after playing for so long with Melee, but whatever it is, it isn't a welcome difference. The game just feels different, and personally, I don't like that.

[NWR_pap64]

I just think that Melee was a much more enjoyable experience and felt much cleaner than Brawl. I know that as the years pass, Melee will be first pick for me when choosing a Smash game to play.

I was thinking of saying "Well, good luck with that", since people are slowly moving away from Melee, but then I remembered that there are many tourneyf**s who refuse to move away from Melee you are no longer the odd duck out (not saying that you are a tourney guy, but that you will likely not be the only one who prefers Melee as his main SSB game).

[GoldenPhoenix]

Wait SSE being leagues better than Melee is extremely arguable. I don't find it enjoyable to have to trudge through  6-8 hr quest to unlock characters in a mode that feels incomplete. Adventure mode was short and to the point, granted it was not great, but at least it was a fair length, and didn't make unlocking characters a chore. Also I think Brawl is a better game when it comes to its core (the multiplayer and fighting mechanics IMO), then again I can also see where others are coming from.

[DAaaMan64]

I don't like the seemingly random tripping either, or the Smash Ball for that matter. It is unbalanced as hell. Some characters have massively powerful Final Smashes while others have totally crappy ones.

I think the developers were well aware of this and did it completely on purpose. It is part of the character's overall balance.


This game has been in development for around 5 years, imbalance as obvious as the Final Smashes must of been intention, because it couldn't have been an accident.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I don't like the seemingly random tripping either, or the Smash Ball for that matter. It is unbalanced as hell. Some characters have massively powerful Final Smashes while others have totally crappy ones.

I think the developers were well aware of this and did it completely on purpose. It is part of the character's overall balance.


This game has been in development for around 5 years, imbalance as obvious as the Final Smashes must of been intention, because it couldn't have been an accident.

Well it has only been in development for, what, 3 years maybe? Like others have said though it was obvious they went all over the place, because the clones are indicative of prirorities being screwed up. My guess is that Sakurai wanted quite a bit of time and resources put into SSE because he indicated in the past he wanted to move away from Brawl. So maybe that was how he justified doing it again, by doing an expanded single player mode.

[Nick DiMola]

I don't like the seemingly random tripping either, or the Smash Ball for that matter. It is unbalanced as hell. Some characters have massively powerful Final Smashes while others have totally crappy ones.

I think the developers were well aware of this and did it completely on purpose. It is part of the character's overall balance.


This game has been in development for around 5 years, imbalance as obvious as the Final Smashes must of been intention, because it couldn't have been an accident.

Not sure if I buy that. Just because a game has been in dev for a long time doesn't mean they really balanced everything out very well. Especially with the FSs. The Smash Ball can be turned off, so balance isn't a huge issue with the Final Smashes; balance goes right out the window anyway when you turn any item on. I would agree with your sentiment if it was a core move that didn't require an item to perform it.

I guess my frustration with it is the simple fact that if you pick a character with a crappy one, it detracts from the game rather than adds to it.

[Smoke39]

So far I'm liking Brawl better.  Attacks feel like they have more impact now because of the new sounds (the ones in Melee were mushy and lacked punch).  I like the expanded roster.  I personally like the slower speed.  I really like the customizable controls.  There are more and better stages and a level editor.  More music.

Really, I think the only thing I haven't really liked so far is the Subspace Emissary, which was meh.  And I'm still not sure I like the changes they made to Samus.

[GoldenPhoenix]

So far I'm liking Brawl better.  Attacks feel like they have more impact now because of the new sounds (the ones in Melee were mushy and lacked punch).  I like the expanded roster.  I personally like the slower speed.  I really like the customizable controls.  There are more and better stages and a level editor.  More music.

Really, I think the only thing I haven't really liked so far is the Subspace Emissary, which was meh.  And I'm still not sure I like the changes they made to Samus.

I think I pretty much agree with you (Except I still feel there should have been more characters in roster or at the very least 35 UNIQUE characters).

[DAaaMan64]

I don't like the seemingly random tripping either, or the Smash Ball for that matter. It is unbalanced as hell. Some characters have massively powerful Final Smashes while others have totally crappy ones.

I think the developers were well aware of this and did it completely on purpose. It is part of the character's overall balance.


This game has been in development for around 5 years, imbalance as obvious as the Final Smashes must of been intention, because it couldn't have been an accident.

Not sure if I buy that. Just because a game has been in dev for a long time doesn't mean they really balanced everything out very well. Especially with the FSs. The Smash Ball can be turned off, so balance isn't a huge issue with the Final Smashes; balance goes right out the window anyway when you turn any item on. I would agree with your sentiment if it was a core move that didn't require an item to perform it.

I guess my frustration with it is the simple fact that if you pick a character with a crappy one, it detracts from the game rather than adds to it.

There is no way it went through all of that development and no one said "hey Smash Balls are way out of balance!", I'm sure they did it on purpose, whether they cared if it unbalances the roster or not.

[Nick DiMola]

Right, and that's exactly the problem. Someone probably did say that it unbalances it, and someone probably just blew it off because they didn't care. I'm convinced that the top priority for a Final Smash move was for it to look cool.

[Svevan]

and your problem with that is.....

[NWR_pap64]

I have to agree with Mr.Jack about the smash balls. They do seem unbalanced. Take for example, Mario and Luigi's final smashes. Mario's FS looks fairly strong and is screen filling. Fine. But Luigi's is INSANE, literally! It inflicts more than 3 status ailments, and if Luigi gets you its over. Not to mention is covers half the arena!

I know the point of the smash ball is to create a grand attack, but shouldn't all the characters get equally powerful and useful attacks?

[Svevan]

That's like saying everyone should do the same damage when you do a smash attack, or when you activate your up plus b special attack. I know of people who play as Yoshi even though he doesn't have a valid triple jump. This conversation is retarded.

[Mikintosh]

Wait SSE being leagues better than Melee is extremely arguable. I don't find it enjoyable to have to trudge through  6-8 hr quest to unlock characters in a mode that feels incomplete. Adventure mode was short and to the point, granted it was not great, but at least it was a fair length, and didn't make unlocking characters a chore.

Well, you have to look at things from a long-term perspective. Once all the characters are unlocked, what're you left with in each mode? With Adventure, it's the same 15 min. thing all over again, whereas with SSE you get a whole adventure for the same price, which you can challenge with different difficulty levels. And how is it incomplete? It's as long as a damn Metroid game.


And for the final smash thing...get over it? They are all roughly about the same in usefulness, even though they aren't all offensive in nature. Some characters have strong attacks with a narrow range or wide-ranging attacks that are weaker or, in Luigi's case, just afflict status changes. C'mon guys, this is the game where you throw Bomb-ombs and Poke Balls at each other, let's not so serious about this stuff.