Topic: Why is Daisy absent from Brawl’s character selection?

[Spak-Spang]

To eleborate even more on the Daisy character in the Mario Universe.

Daisy perfectly compliments Luigi like Mario compliments Peach. 

Peach is elegant, alittle ditzy and demure...but she is also trusting and very caring.  She needs a hero...someone to "look over her" not because she can't do anything on her own, but because she is just too trusting and doesn't have the level headed street smarts.

Daisy is a rough girl.  She is a Princess in name only.  She wants to adventure and she won't take crap from anybody.  Luigi being bashful and shy needs a strong woman to kick his ass...and they work together as a good team.

I would have loved a seperate Daisy character to further elaborate on these differences, but oh well.

[darknight06]

She would've ended up a clone of Peach, better if she wasn't there.

[Luigi Dude]

Daisy will be a playable character when Waluigi is one as well.  Which means never, or at least Smash Bros 5.

One thing you all have to remember is all the characters in Smash Bros are the imporant characters to the main series they're representing.  Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser are the most imporant character in the Mario series and are all apart of all the main games, going back to the original. 

Daisy was some character that appeared at the end of Mario Land and was then forgotten for the next 10 years.  Hell the only reason she was even revived is because she was the only character that would make a great partner for Peach in a Tennis game.  This is why they had to create Waluigi because Wario had no parter that could exist.  After that they just decided to use both character for the rest of the Mario spinoffs.

Why else does anyone think that Daisy never appears in any of the Mario Platformers.  Where was she in Mario Sunshine, or New Super Mario Bros, or Mario Galaxy?  Or where was Waluigi in Wario Land 4, Wario World, or all the Wario Ware games?

Until Smash Bros include minor characters which it won't do until at least the fifth installment when they run out of main characters, secondary characters like Daisy will not be playable.  There's a reason the original Smash Bros in Japan was called Nintendo All-Star Dairantou Smash Brothers.  Some of you guys need to FINALLY realise this because Smash Bros, has always been and always will be about the most important characters from the top franchices with a few classic characters thrown in for fun.

And before anyone say, but Wolf isn't important to Star Fox, shut up now.  Since Andross is just a floating head, he can never be playable.  And since Andross can't be playable, who would be second on the Star Fox villian list, Wolf.  And since Wolf can be turned into a playable character he represents the main villian of the series, giving him the same important to his series that Bowser, Ganondorf and King Dedede have to theirs.

[NWR_pap64]

Until Smash Bros include minor characters which it won't do until at least the fifth installment when they run out of main characters, secondary characters like Daisy will not be playable.  There's a reason the original Smash Bros in Japan was called Nintendo All-Star Dairantou Smash Brothers.  Some of you guys need to FINALLY realise this because Smash Bros, has always been and always will be about the most important characters from the top franchices with a few classic characters thrown in for fun.

I disagree. Yes, the game may be called "Smash Bros. ALL STARS", but simply because its called that it doesn't mean that they can't add supporting, new or obscure characters. Like I said, the game is basically a love letter to Nintendo from Nintendo. The company is rich in characters and history, so it wouldn't hurt for them to dig deeper into the vaults and pull out new characters and bring them into the spotlight.

To think that some characters only deserve to be in the game as just a trophy or sticker is insulting to their legacy. I agree that not every single character can be a fighter, but many of them are and are just as important as the main cast.

[Adrock]

I disagree as well.  What about Jigglypuff? She's not important. Come to think of it, neither is Pikachu. The Japanese love him and he was made a star in the anime. In the grand scheme of the series itself, they're just popular Pokemon and that's why made the roster. It took 3 games to get Trainer in there and he was the avatar of the player. The Pokemon he used are far more representative of the series, since in Red/Blue you had to choose 1 of the 3. Pokemon Yellow was made in response to his popularity, after Pikachu gained popularity.

And honestly, Luigi has always played second fiddle. He was never that important. He was in Mario games so that there could be a Player 2. He did disappear for quite some time (if I remember correctly, he was MIA in SM64) until Luigi's Mansion, only appearing in spin-offs like Mario Kart/Party etc. In that case, Daisy is totally fair game.

[Smash_Brother]

Can anyone argue with a straight face that Ice Climbers are somehow important to...well, anything?

Also, add Pit to the list of "hasn't done anything in 10 years".

[Adrock]

Well, I think LuigiDude's point is that the characters represented in the Brawl roster are important to their respective franchise. Therefore, Pit is important to Kid Icarus and Ice Climbers to (duh!) Ice Climbers. Kid Icarus has Palutena and Medusa (if she counts) too, but Pit is the main guy.

The argument against Daisy here is that completely unimportant to the Mario series because she was in one Mario Land game and spinoffs. I don't agree with the sentiment, but I think that's what he means.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Handheld Mario games are important.

*sigh*

[Luigi Dude]

Well, I think LuigiDude's point is that the characters represented in the Brawl roster are important to their respective franchise. Therefore, Pit is important to Kid Icarus and Ice Climbers to (duh!) Ice Climbers. Kid Icarus has Palutena and Medusa (if she counts) too, but Pit is the main guy.

The argument against Daisy here is that completely unimportant to the Mario series because she was in one Mario Land game and spinoffs. I don't agree with the sentiment, but I think that's what he means.

Yes this is exactly what I mean.  Of course you had to go and call Luigi non important in your one post didn't you, well here we go.

And honestly, Luigi has always played second fiddle. He was never that important. He was in Mario games so that there could be a Player 2. He did disappear for quite some time (if I remember correctly, he was MIA in SM64) until Luigi's Mansion, only appearing in spin-offs like Mario Kart/Party etc. In that case, Daisy is totally fair game.

Even though Luigi was Player 2, A LOT of people played the Original and Bros 3 in 2 Player Mode.  Without Luigi the series wouldn't have been Super Mario Bros in the first place.  Yes, Luigi was missing throughout the mid to late 90's, it still doesn't diminish the important he had in Bros 1,2,3 and World.  And so there's more main Mario platformer games that Luigi was apart of then ones he wasn't. 

Plus he's recently become very important again since he was playable in both New Super Mario Bros and Super Mario Galaxy.  Daisy on the other hand is only known for her role in the spinoff's since she has only been in one Mario platformer which even though it's sold very very well, it's not remembered as well as Bros 1 or 3. 

Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser are the 4 characters that make the Mario series  These are the Mario characters everyone knows and remembers.  Plus these are the 4 characters that have appeared in the most Mario games and have played the biggest roles in them.  When you hear people talking about Mario, it's one of these four or Yoshi, but he's already in Smash Bros under his own series anyway. 

Plus if they did use another Mario character they'd use Bowser Jr. before Daisy.  After Sunshine, Nintendo has given him a major role in all the main platformers as well as spinoffs which is better treatment then Daisy's ever gotten.  Even though he's a horrible little bastard that needs to die, right now he's much higher up in the series importance list.

[wandering]

But alas, the roster is finished so there's no point in talking about it. Hopefully, if SSB 4 is ever made they hire a new director and think things through.

I'm saving this quote and showing it to you when Nintendo decides to give the next smash game to the same people who made Star Fox Assault.

[Darkheart]

LOLNAMCO

[LuigiHann]

OH HI
http://www.brawlcentral.com/content.php?p=trophy/mario/striker_daisy

[Arbok]

There's a reason the original Smash Bros in Japan was called Nintendo All-Star Dairantou Smash Brothers.  Some of you guys need to FINALLY realise this because Smash Bros, has always been and always will be about the most important characters from the top franchices with a few classic characters thrown in for fun.

I disagree. We know Plusle and Minun were both seriously considered for Brawl, and neither is a major character in any game in the Pokémon franchise. To that point, Pichu and Roy are also exceptions, as both were included in Melee more because of their currentness in a particular franchise than the role they played.

I disagree as well.  What about Jigglypuff? She's not important. Come to think of it, neither is Pikachu. The Japanese love him and he was made a star in the anime. In the grand scheme of the series itself, they're just popular Pokemon and that's why made the roster. It took 3 games to get Trainer in there and he was the avatar of the player. The Pokemon he used are far more representative of the series, since in Red/Blue you had to choose 1 of the 3. Pokemon Yellow was made in response to his popularity, after Pikachu gained popularity.

Pikachu is not very predominant in the main series, outside of yellow, but he makes a name for himself in spin off games, like Hey You Pikachu, and is often seen front and center for these.

Jigglypuff... yeah, she was never important. I think her popularity (going from a survey, she is the second most popular Pokémon in the states) is actually due to her being a fighter in Smash Bros.

So, consequently, I think her inclusion doesn't bar any "secondary" characters from showing up in sequels. However, she was largely the original "WTF" character, whose mantel was then handed over to more historical figures in Melee (Game & Watch) and Brawl (ROB).

And honestly, Luigi has always played second fiddle. He was never that important. He was in Mario games so that there could be a Player 2. He did disappear for quite some time (if I remember correctly, he was MIA in SM64) until Luigi's Mansion, only appearing in spin-offs like Mario Kart/Party etc. In that case, Daisy is totally fair game.

I can't see that statement holding any water considering his HUGE role in the handheld Mario RPG series, which is even known by the Mario & Luigi marquee.

Plus if they did use another Mario character they'd use Bowser Jr. before Daisy.  [...]  Even though he's a horrible little bastard that needs to die ...

Truer words were never said...

[NWR_pap64]

But alas, the roster is finished so there's no point in talking about it. Hopefully, if SSB 4 is ever made they hire a new director and think things through.

I'm saving this quote and showing it to you when Nintendo decides to give the next smash game to the same people who made Star Fox Assault.

There's a difference between hiring a new director and outsourcing to a third party. And technically, Brawl was outsourced. First, it was developed by Sora, Sakurai's personal development house, not by Hal, who developed the first two SSB games. Then, Miyamoto gave him the team behind the Grandia series, an RPG company. Finally, the game runs on the Havok engine, a third party game engine.

So, save for Sakurai a lot of people outside Nintendo worked on the game, and its now being hailed as the best game ever...

[GoldenPhoenix]

Ganon is so important he has an obscure racers moves! Seriously I sometimes wonder if there was much logic to picking characters, especially after the first game.

[NWR_insanolord]

Ganon is so important he has an obscure racers moves! Seriously I sometimes wonder if there was much logic to picking characters, especially after the first game.

Ganondorf isn't a clone of Captain Falcon. Captain Falcon is, and has been all along, what Ganondorf transforms into after acquiring the Triforce of Speed.

[wandering]

I laughed.

But alas, the roster is finished so there's no point in talking about it. Hopefully, if SSB 4 is ever made they hire a new director and think things through.

I'm saving this quote and showing it to you when Nintendo decides to give the next smash game to the same people who made Star Fox Assault.

There's a difference between hiring a new director and outsourcing to a third party. And technically, Brawl was outsourced. First, it was developed by Sora, Sakurai's personal development house, not by Hal, who developed the first two SSB games. Then, Miyamoto gave him the team behind the Grandia series, an RPG company. Finally, the game runs on the Havok engine, a third party game engine.

So, save for Sakurai a lot of people outside Nintendo worked on the game, and its now being hailed as the best game ever...

If it's being hailed as the best game ever, why do you want the next game to have a new director?

[GoldenPhoenix]

Ganon is so important he has an obscure racers moves! Seriously I sometimes wonder if there was much logic to picking characters, especially after the first game.

Ganondorf isn't a clone of Captain Falcon. Captain Falcon is, and has been all along, what Ganondorf transforms into after acquiring the Triforce of Speed.

Lol. Oh yeah in regards to why I think the series needs a new director is because I think Sakurai has taken the series as far as it can go under his leadership. A new director could bring a fresh new perspective (and hopefully more of a focus on the fighters themselves). Brawl is probably the best Sakurai can offer, I think he has crafted a game he is pretty much completely proud of, which is why someone new should be brought in to branch off from the foundation Sakurai perfected.

[Adrock]

Arbok wrote:
Pikachu is not very predominant in the main series, outside of yellow, but he makes a name for himself in spin off games, like Hey You Pikachu, and is often seen front and center for these.

So, like Daisy? Isn't that the whole point of the Daisy argument?

I can't see that statement holding any water considering his HUGE role in the handheld Mario RPG series, which is even known by the Mario & Luigi marquee.

Mario and Luigi came out after the original Super Smash Bros. The point here is that by the time the original released, Luigi was mostly seen in spin-off titles. How was he more relevant than, say, Wario? I guess maybe they were playing off the whole Super Mario Bros. thing which would easily justify Luigi as a selectable character.

In any case, I'm not anti-Luigi so much as I'm pro-Daisy. I like Luigi as a selectable character in Smash Bros. (in fact, far more than Mario). I think Daisy would make a great roster addition. And whether or not Daisy ever makes it into a future Smash Bros. roster has little to do with the relevance of her character and everything to do with time constraints. Why do we have Wolf? It's not because he's important to the Star Fox franchise, even though he actually is important to the franchise. He's in the roster because they needed to half-ass a character.

[Arbok]

So, like Daisy? Isn't that the whole point of the Daisy argument?

So Daisy appears front and center on the cover of Mario games that are outside of the main series? As it turns out, Double Dash is the only cover where Daisy even shows up on the front of, as she's paired with Peach. Pikachu, on the other hand, is a driving force in marketing the spin off titles... after all, how many spin off games in the Pokémon franchise do not feature Pikachu in any way on the cover?

So comparing the two on that basis is really not apt, as people don't associate Daisy in particular with the spin off titles the way they do Pikachu for the Pokémon ones.

Mario and Luigi came out after the original Super Smash Bros. The point here is that by the time the original released, Luigi was mostly seen in spin-off titles.

True, but he had taken center stage in a game already, which is more than most of the Mario characters can tout (although Wario was far more relevant at this time, as you note). So *shrugs* perhaps someone was a fan of Mario is Missing, or more than likely Sakurai (being 19 years old when he entered the industry, so he's not all that old) was far more impacted with the original Super Mario Bros. and hence Luigi ...although I like Mario is Missing theory more. 

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Daisy is on Mario Party 8's cover.

[Arbok]

Daisy is on Mario Party 8's cover.

Oh... you are right *leaves thread in shame*