Topic: Dear Reggie: Re: Bundles

[UncleBob]

Hello Reggie.

According to an article on Kotaku, Nintendo of America isn't fond of retailers forcing bundles on consumers.

So, I'm left wondering why Nintendo of America forces bundles on consumers?  Here in the states, we had to pay $30 more than Japan for our Wii because it was bundled with Wii Sports.  Over the Thanksgiving holiday, y'all released special edition DS units that were only sold in bundles for $20 more than the normal price of the DS (both with games I already own).

I too am all for letting the consumer decide what he or she wants.  Thus, I don't think it's quite fair to force bundles on us either.

Thank you.

[NWR_pap64]

See, there's a difference...

Wii Sports was pretty much essential in convincing consumers that the Wii is an excellent gaming machine. Had Wii Sports been released by itself it would've been ignored since gamers had already labeled Wii Sports as a cheap tech demo. Even if the game raised the price of the console it was a strategic decision, one that had helped many people cross over to new gaming fields.

On the case of DS bundles, those are OPTIONAL. You can either buy the bundle with the game you want or you can just buy a DS Lite.

Most importantly, these official bundles are priced just within the consumer's spending range. The type of bundles Nintendo is talking about are exaggerated, extremely pricy bundles that retailers force upon consumers due to how rare and well sought out the Wii is. Nintendo's bundle's include the essentials; the console, a game and perhaps some accessories. These bundles include games no one wants along with accessories and peripherals of questionable quality.

I think that's what Nintendo is talking about. Nintendo's bundles are reasonable and optional. Retailer's bundles can be ridiculous sometimes and with the Wii being so rare it forces consumers to choose between shelling more than extra or going home empty handed, a HARD decision parents must face when buying presents for their kids.

At least that's how I view it.

[Crimm]

The Zelda DS Lite is a "special edition" DS lite.  The Brain Age 2 DS Lite was released as a non-bundle later.

[NWR_pap64]

That's another thing. In the case of the DS Bundles they are aimed towards a niche collector's market. Sure, everyone buys them but the bundles they are made with the collectors in mind. Its basically the reason MS did three versions of Halo 3; One for the normal consumer, one for the collector and one for those that want a little more or are heavy collectors.

Now, if Nintendo wasn't mass producing stand alone DSs and was forcing the bundles onto retailers and consumer THEN it would be a problem. But for now, I think Nintendo isn't being hypocritical in their statements.

[31 Flavas]

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Originally posted by: UncleBob
Hello Reggie.

According to an article on Kotaku, Nintendo of America isn't fond of retailers forcing bundles on consumers.

So, I'm left wondering why Nintendo of America forces bundles on consumers?  Here in the states, we had to pay $30 more than Japan for our Wii because it was bundled with Wii Sports.  Over the Thanksgiving holiday, y'all released special edition DS units that were only sold in bundles for $20 more than the normal price of the DS (both with games I already own).

I too am all for letting the consumer decide what he or she wants.  Thus, I don't think it's quite fair to force bundles on us either.

Thank you.

Oh please, these are pretty meager bundles compared to the Walmart, GameStop, and ToyRus bundles.  As far as Zelda DS bundle, you're getting the game for $15 off. Give it to a friend for xmas. (that is what I'm doing) Or if you're not the charitable type go sell it on eBay for $30.

As far as Wii Sports, where's the vice and gnashing of teeth over the NES, SNES, and GameBoy, bundles of Mario Bros., Mario World, and Tetris? Oh geez let me guess, they're "games" right. No problems, no gouging there.... Or for that matter, what about xbox 360 core? Who in their right flipping mind is going to buy a xbox 360 core? It's very easy to say xbox 360 core is gouging the consumer, not giving them choice.

There are bundles that make sense and then there are bundles that are specifically designed for gouging. Reggie is talking about the latter.

You can't tell me that a modern day Mario Galaxy bundle with Wii would garner this much contempt. That isn't to say you can't express dissatisfaction or contempt for Wii Sports. But, lets not kid around here, the heart of this argument isn't that a bundled game is "not-fair" or impedes consumer choice. It's that you don't want to support Wii Sports since it is the harbinger of gaming doom.

Make that your argument, is what i'm saying. Because the consumers have spoken and Wii Sports is what they want. Hence this is no worse then Nintendo's past bundles, which were good things.  

[BranDonk Kong]

You already own a DS too, no one's forcing you to buy another one.

[matt oz]

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Originally posted by: 31 FlavasIt's that you don't want to support Wii Sports since it is the heir bringer of gaming doom.

do you mean harbinger?  because if not, i have no idea what you're saying.

[ShyGuy]

Reggie is gonna getcha for this post.

[31 Flavas]

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Originally posted by: matt oz

do you mean harbinger?  because if not, i have no idea what you're saying.

Ya. Thanks.

[Dirk Temporo]

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We don't have to remind retailers of the strength we have right now. We are simply making an observation and that reinforces our point quite nicely with retailers.

=
"You wouldn't want anything BAD to happen, now would you?"

[UncleBob]

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Originally posted by: pap64
Now, if Nintendo wasn't mass producing stand alone DSs and was forcing the bundles onto retailers and consumer THEN it would be a problem. But for now, I think Nintendo isn't being hypocritical in their statements.

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Originally posted by: pap64On the case of DS bundles, those are OPTIONAL. You can either buy the bundle with the game you want or you can just buy a DS Lite.

But Nintendo is not mass producing stand alone versions of these DS units.  If you want the Gold or Rose editions, the only way to get them is to buy Nintendo's bundle - there is no option to buy just the Gold or Rose DS.

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Originally posted by: ShyGuy
Reggie is gonna getcha for this post.

Bring it!

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Originally posted by: Brandogg
You already own a DS too, no one's forcing you to buy another one.

No one is forcing a consumer to buy a $700 Wii Bundle either.  Such bundles are simply a retailer's way of adjusting for supply and demand.  If there were no $700 bundles, how many Wiis would end up in the hands of eBay resellers and sell on eBay with nothing extra for $400+?  At least you get more stuff in a Bundle.

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Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo

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We don't have to remind retailers of the strength we have right now. We are simply making an observation and that reinforces our point quite nicely with retailers.

=
"You wouldn't want anything BAD to happen, now would you?"

You'd think Nintendo would learn what happens to arrogant companies from their arrogance in the NES days... But no...

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Originally posted by: 31 Flavas


1.)Oh please, these are pretty meager bundles compared to the Walmart, GameStop, and ToyRus bundles.

2.)As far as Zelda DS bundle, you're getting the game for $15 off. Give it to a friend for xmas. (that is what I'm doing) Or if you're not the charitable type go sell it on eBay for $30.

3.)As far as Wii Sports, where's the vice and gnashing of teeth over the NES, SNES, and GameBoy, bundles of Mario Bros., Mario World, and Tetris? Oh geez let me guess, they're "games" right. No problems, no gouging there....

4.)Or for that matter, what about xbox 360 core? Who in their right flipping mind is going to buy a xbox 360 core? It's very easy to say xbox 360 core is gouging the consumer, not giving them choice.

5.)You can't tell me that a modern day Mario Galaxy bundle with Wii would garner this much contempt.

6.)It's that you don't want to support Wii Sports since it is the harbinger of gaming doom.

1.)But they're still bundles that the customer has to pay extra for if they want the hardware.  The customer is not given a choice.

2.)As far as a $700 Bundle goes, give the extras as gifts or sell them on eBay.

3.)I don't remember Reggie (or Nintendo) coming out during the days of the NES/SNES/Game Boy and making subtle threats to retailers for bundling systems then.

4.)I don't understand your argument here.  Because Microsoft was offering three different SKUs of the 360, one of those being a pure base unit without anything bundled in... they weren't giving customers a choice?

5.)I seem to remember when Nintendo did an offer of "Buy a GameCube, get one of these four games free." there were people saying(/crying) that Nintendo was stupid for doing so and they should just drop the price of the system instead.  I think the games included Mario Sunshine and Metroid Prime.

6.)That's funny.  I always thought I *liked* Wii Sports.  I'm glad you're here to show me that I don't.... Hmm... guess I'll have to sell my copy on eBay now.  

[UncleBob]

Oh, I forgot to add - is anyone taking into account that Nintendo "forces" retailers into buying "bundles" from them?  Wii allocation is determined based on how much other Nintendo stuff a store/chain purchases.  DS units, Wii Plays and other 1st party software, WiFi Adapters, etc., etc... the more a store orders from Nintendo, the more Wii units they'll receive.

I wonder how Joe Consumer would like it if they had to purchase two DS units in order to be allowed to buy one Wii.

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: UncleBob
I wonder how Joe Consumer would like it if they had to purchase two DS units in order to be allowed to buy one Wii.

To keep with the analogy, if I was a eBay reseller and could turn a profit on the two DS units, I don't think I would care.

[Dirk Temporo]

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Originally posted by: UncleBob
You'd think Nintendo would learn what happens to arrogant companies from their arrogance in the NES days... But no...

Reggie isn't Nintendo. Iwata is, and Iwata is all kinds of humble. But being humble isn't going to get you anywhere in the business world, which is why Reggie makes such a nice complement to Iwata.

[NWR_insanolord]

Comparing Reggie saying he and Nintendo don't like the bundles to their NES era arrogance is ridiculous. If Nintendo were denying shipments of Wiis to retailers that were caught forcing bundles there would be a comparison; this is just Nintendo voicing their opinion, an opinion that nearly everyone on the consumer side of things shares.

[UncleBob]

Arbok: Actually, I'd guess a lot of eBay resellers would be less likely to risk $510+ for $150- in profits (in comparison to risking $250+ for $150- in profits).

"We don't have to remind retailers of the strength we have right now."
That's a pretty arrogant statement, IMHO.  It's not quite NES level arrogance, (as, ideally, there's been no bite to the bark), but it's pretty high up there.  You can't treat the retail stores like crap - unless you want to go to mail order only.  Face it, the Wii and DS is selling like *crazy* in stores and stores are still very reluctant to give up Sony's shelf space to Nintendo... Why is that?

Retail stores were more than happy to dump their "World of Nintendo" for giant Genesis (Mega Drive) and Playstation displays...  It's almost as if retailers *want* Nintendo to fail... Why would that be?

 

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Retailers suck.

[Crimm]

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Originally posted by: Professional 666
Retailers suck.

Thread over.  Everyone go home.

[BranDonk Kong]

Are you trying to get us to feel bad for Wal-Mart?

[Dirk Temporo]

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Originally posted by: UncleBob
stores are still very reluctant to give up Sony's shelf space to Nintendo.

Are you kidding? Go into a Gamestop. The PS3 section is TINY. In fact, the PS3 section at my Gamestop is smaller than our Gamecube section.

[UncleBob]

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Originally posted by: Brandogg
Are you trying to get us to feel bad for Wal-Mart?

No, Wal*Mart doesn't even sell bundles (WalMart.com is a different company). :p

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Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo

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Originally posted by: UncleBob
stores are still very reluctant to give up Sony's shelf space to Nintendo.

Are you kidding? Go into a Gamestop. The PS3 section is TINY. In fact, the PS3 section at my Gamestop is smaller than our Gamecube section.

How's their PS2 and PSP space though?

[BranDonk Kong]

The key difference is there's about 135 million PS2s sold, and a pretty decent amount of PSPs as well, so it pays to stock a few games and accessories. The PS3 section at all the Gamestops near me are basically non-existent, aside from the giant stack of unsold RockBand bundles, and GH3 bundles in the "cubby holes" at the top of the wall.

[31 Flavas]

Quote
Originally posted by: UncleBob

"We don't have to remind retailers of the strength we have right now."
That's a pretty arrogant statement, IMHO.  It's not quite NES level arrogance, (as, ideally, there's been no bite to the bark), but it's pretty high up there.  You can't treat the retail stores like crap - unless you want to go to mail order only.

I just don't think you're going to get much support or agreement that Reggie is being a hypocrite or arrogant here. Retailer bundles are universally reviled and condemned for bundling multiple crap games, overpriced accessories, and needless unwanted "protection" plans. That's treating the manufacturer and customer like crap. Where as manufacturer one game system bundles are long standing, historically widely accepted, and usually offer savings (i.e. $15 discount on Zelda: PH, xbox 360 premium). That savings is called respecting the customer while pushing the agenda.

Even when they don't offer any savings, manufacturer bundles are still accepted because only one game is bundled and it is always a popular one with widespread support. In other words, they don't abuse you like the retailer bundles do. And if you *like* Wii Sports why are you complaining about the bundle in the first place? That's like throwing a hissy fit that Nintendo forced you to buy Tetris with your GameBoy. Oh the abuse! That accursed Nintendo, they're making me buy TETRIS.

So, no, Reggie is not arrogant or a hypocrite saying retailers can't bundle while his company bundles at the same time. You've got some hidden agenda otherwise.

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Face it, the Wii and DS is selling like *crazy* in stores and stores are still very reluctant to give up Sony's shelf space to Nintendo... Why is that?

I dunno about you, but i'm seeing quite the opposite. EB and Gamestop stores by me have replaced all the PS2, PS3, and PSP sections Nintendo Wii and DS software. The first thing you find when you walk over to video game in my BestBuy is DS and Wii software. Even the largest retailer in akihabara shopping district in Japan replaced the 1st floor with Wii and DS software which had been exclusively Sony's domain. Now it is exclusively Nintendo's domain. Sony is on the 3rd floor now where Nintendo use to be.

[UncleBob]

Sorry, I meant US Retailers.  While EBStop may have rearranged their sections to move Nintendo to the front, most stores still have much more space dedicated to Sony (and in many cases, Microsoft) than Nintendo.

Anywhoo, I don't mind Nintendo's Bundles.  I don't mind online retailer bundles (not a fan of in-store bundles - it might sound crazy, but there's actually some sound economics of doing bundles online vs. in store).  I simply don't care for Reggie making threating statements that either (a) he'll never back up because he knows it'd be stupid to piss off the retailers but make the customers love Nintendo even more or (b) he'll actually try to make good on, then piss off the retailers and have Nintendo end up back in court for some kind of NES-era lawsuit all over again.

What it comes down to is simple - if you don't want to buy a bundle that a retailer offers, don't buy it.  If it's unpopular (i.e.: doesn't sell), then it won't sell as people will go places where they can get unbundled hardware.  Then, the retailer will stop bundling.

[ShyGuy]

I can understand Reggie's point as bundled Wiis take away the price advantage versus the competition. I can also understand retailer's position because they have to sell the Wii's at the MSRP and I'm sure the margins on them are lousy. Bundles are a workaround to reflect a market driven price rather than Nintendo's suggest retail price.

However, just as the consumer can go elsewhere if they don't want to bundle, so can Nintendo go elsewhere if they don't want to bundle.