Topic: This really pissed me off

[Spak-Spang]

I found this at Go Nintendo talking about the Pirated Super Mario Galaxy video and whether it was real or not.

#  Arkdium Says:
October 30th, 2007 at 2:09 pm

It’s not fake people and I think this is completely right to do it and there is no problem with it, since you people live in a country where you can just go and buy the game in a store or just preorder it, as if it bread or milk, not everyone can do that, and I completely support that people who CAN’T buy original games do this kind of stuff. Sure, a Japanese company who is in fact the #2 company in Japan now (after Toyota I think) is loosing many millions from piracy, but if they don’t move their ass, and sell their games officially in countries that are in Latin America, or in Asia, or even in Australia and Europe, which they get the fing game with a very long wait.

Between, I have a modded wii too.


This guy is justifying stealing because it is supposedly only hurting a giant company and other countries are too poor to buy food?  Or is it they are upset that capitalism and free trade has made products available around the world for everyone to enjoy?  I don't quite understand.

But the main point I believe he is missing is that video games are a luxury.  It is a hobby that you do not need to live.  It can't be compared to food, shelter, water, companionship.  You can't justify stealing a video game because you are poor.    And this kind of stuff totally hurts more than company.  If pirating was legalized and justified no games would be created because the companies couldn't make a profit.  People would lose their jobs, and video games, movies, music in current form would seize to exist.  

Perhaps that is looking at to too big.  Instead, because of pirating we currently pay more for games than we would without pirating.  But I guess that is ok, because everyone in all these countries that can buy video games are rich enough to drop whatever it costs us to play games.

[UncleBob]

But if everyone in the video game industry lost their jobs, they'd be poor and could pirate games as well, right?  See, it all works out!

Seriously, I've dealt with this same argument over music piracy for years.  When people get it in their head that they're "right" to steal from others, you're not going to change their mind.  Some people really believe in the "steal from the rich to give to the poor" train of thought.

[Karl Castaneda #2]

Is it moral to accept that you are morally bankrupt?

What a conundrum...

[wandering]

What he's saying is that it's okay to enjoy a pirated copy of a game, if that game isn't available for purchase in your country.

I agree with him. I've downloaded some pieces of entertainment that weren't released in the US, and I don't feel that bad about it.  

[Nick DiMola]

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Originally posted by: wandering
What he's saying is that it's okay to enjoy a pirated copy of a game, if that game isn't available for purchase in your country.

I agree with him. I've downloaded some pieces of entertainment that weren't released in the US, and I don't feel that bad about it.

I tend to agree with this idea as well. If importing was more reasonable I wouldn't even dream of it.

However, just because you are poor it doesn't really give you the right to steal something. But in the end, who cares? Your average consumer IS purchasing games. Most people would rather pay for something than steal it. We are generally moral beings and want to do the right thing.

If it really gets that bad and more people are stealing your product than buying it, clearly the price of your product doesn't match up with the expected price in the market and needs to come down, solving your theft issue. If games, movies, music etc. were more reasonably priced, people would be less likely to steal. Though, it is not always a guarantee that people will stop stealing, that is the most likely outcome. There will always be a group of people who are going to steal something no matter what the price is. Those people are definitely the minority though because if they were not all of these entertainment companies would not still be in business

[KDR_11k]

I'll blame NoE just in case.

[Strell]

I think if you want to download it and play it until it is released and then buy it, that's - for the most part - ok, since it's like getting an extended demo.

But if you're just going to download it and never buy it, then I personally have an issue with that.

We live in an age where people think all of their entertainment should be handed to them completely free.  I must have missed the day whn everyone decided this was something that had absolutely no moral considerations attached to it.  All I know is that, suddenly, it was perfectly fine to get all of your movies, tv shows, music, video games, eBooks, and software applications completely free.

Now, having seen this discussion crop up at tons and tons of forums, I have learned to not tempt the hornet's nest with moral discussions.  Instead, all I can simply say is this: You are getting something for free that is not meant to be free, and there is indeed something wrong with that equation.

[Ceric]

I agree that Stealing is Stealing is Stealing.  Especially when it comes to luxury items.  I work as a Computer Programmer.  I like getting paid.  I like getting paid decently, though I still can barely afford a house where I'm at with 2 incomes but thats another rant.  If you want companies to make a quality product you pay for it.  If you don't pay for it they'll just shovel out what the people who would pay for it wants.

Paying for things make for a lucrative market.  Meaning more players will want a piece of the pie.  Meaning more choice/competition.  Having everything free sounds great but it just doesn't work like it should.  This ain't Star Trek.

[Strell]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I agree that Stealing is Stealing is Stealing.  Especially when it comes to luxury items.  I work as a Computer Programmer.  I like getting paid.  I like getting paid decently, though I still can barely afford a house where I'm at with 2 incomes but thats another rant.  If you want companies to make a quality product you pay for it.  If you don't pay for it they'll just shovel out what the people who would pay for it wants.

Paying for things make for a lucrative market.  Meaning more players will want a piece of the pie.  Meaning more choice/competition.  Having everything free sounds great but it just doesn't work like it should.  This ain't Star Trek.

That's the thing, though.  

The majority of gamers/net nerds/techies/the PC generation all seem to think that they hurt absolutely no one.  They all think that every song/game/program/show is only making money for these big wig CEOs, who sit around all day in their plush leather chairs smoking cigars, bags of money piled around them with $ on them, and being serviced by various people of various races in sexual ways.

At some point, it became completely ok to download everything, because everyone is convinced that the creators/artists don't see a dime of profit ever.  I.e., everyone thinks downloading songs sticks it to the RIAA, since the RIAA is run by jerks, and apparently they aren't going to give any profit to their bands anyway.  So now it's painted in this pseudo "fight the man" sort of thing.

So these people think Iwata and Reggie - who already are most likely financially secure and overly-comfortable - are just going to lose out on some extra pennies.

That's the justification I tend to hear, if not a "f*ck you I don car" instead.

Again, I don't know where this idea came from, and how suddenly it was completely accepted by the majority of people on the net, but it's become a situation where no one feels any reason at all to get digital entertainment at a price any more.  I just don't understand that reasoning.  Maybe it's because I grew up in a time where I was completely unaware of methods to get stuff for free, or maybe it's because the Internet wasn't popular/useful in my childhood, or maybe it's because of other reasons, but I just don't know.

You people who think of yourselves of vigilantes are generally the first ones to whine and complain when something happens to ruin your fun.  Like, for example, a firmware update that bricks your system, or a developer closing down because they couldn't secure enough sales, etc etc.

Keep pretending that sensationalized bullsh*t excuse you have, where you imagine all the people in the entertainment world as these careless spenders who have pockets so deep, they can afford solid gold toilets, and thus, even if you WERE stealing money from the artists, you can shove that aside with "OMFG, I DON'T HAVE A SOLID GOLD TOILET, SO I DON'T NEED TO PAY FOR THEIR STUFF, SINCE I'M A TOTAL BITCH."

Which is a shame.  You should have one, to catch all the sh*t you spew out of your mouth.

[Mashiro]

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Again, I don't know where this idea came from, and how suddenly it was completely accepted by the majority of people on the net, but it's become a situation where no one feels any reason at all to get digital entertainment at a price any more. I just don't understand that reasoning. Maybe it's because I grew up in a time where I was completely unaware of methods to get stuff for free, or maybe it's because the Internet wasn't popular/useful in my childhood, or maybe it's because of other reasons, but I just don't know.

I think the best way to put it into a way of understanding is this: it's a faceless crime. There's no physical stealing occurring and it's far easier to get away with downloading a song then say breaking into a wal-mart and taking the CD. The internet to many is conceived as a place with very little ownership over material and only recently (see: last couple of years) have companies been fighting back and staking claim on their copyrighted material.

I'll be the first to admit, I download some songs on occasion without buying it. More times than not though I will buy the CD (especially for movie soundtracks <3).

The most frequently downloaded music I acquire that I don't purchase legally is (as was said above) foreign music. The import CDs are rarely available in the states but it is something that if was made available I would be more than happy to pay for it through a normal retailer.

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a firmware update that bricks your system

I still hate Nintendo for not making the Wii region free =(. Freeloader on Wii so I can play Naruto Shippuden ::cries:: Damn you firmware updates

[ShyGuy]

Something tells me if Galaxy was available to buy in this guy's country, he would still pirate. It's an excuse not a reason.

The only thing I pirate is Barbaro's treasure.

[GoldenPhoenix]

One thing I hate about stealing from big companies, is that people forget that many of these big companies have stockholders, some of which have much of their livelihood invested in these companies. A company, especially a public traded company is much more than executives, it is made up of thousands of people who are ALL impacted by how well the business does. Perhaps the best example of an industry impacted the most by piracy is the PC industry, where great games end up doing like crap because of piracy.  

On a side note one comment really bothered me on Gonintendo, I think it was a week or so ago when this piracy thing first started, some actually blamed Nintendo, yes Nintendo, for the pirated Mario Galaxy because they gave Gamestop a full version.  

[Kairon]

I hate people. I <3 NWR.

[Mashiro]

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some actually blamed Nintendo, yes Nintendo, for the pirated Mario Galaxy because they gave Gamestop a full version.

All I know is . . . back (way back) when I worked at Toys R Us in the "R'Zone" (the electronics area) if we ever messed with the kiosks in a way as to say remove the disc inside and take it home, we could get in massive trouble from Nintendo, so I mean you really aren't supposed to mess with the kiosks and what not.

The only disc I ever got to take home from a demo display was the ORIGINAL Nintendo Gamecube video disc lol. You know, the one that had that overly happy young male VA that was like "Hey it's Luigi's Mansion! Only on Nintendo Gamecube!"

I still have it somewhere . . .

[that Baby guy]

I agree that he's wrong, but I've got some common place views on piracy, I think.  If I own a game, I don't think much about downloading it.  I can tell you that the few games I have downloaded, I own, and would easily buy once released on the VC, despite owning them.  I know it's illegal, but it literally does no harm.  I only use downloading to access something like save states or look into a hack that was made.

The only game I can think of that doesn't fall under this description is Earthbound Zero.  I downloaded and played that to completion, and I may never have a chance of owning any legitimate copy of that game.  If I do get the chance, I'll buy it right away, but if I don't, it's not my fault that the title is absolutely inaccessible to me in every other way.  The second game this would happen with is Mother 3, for similar reasons to above.  I'm not buying the Japanese version of Mother 3, because Nintendo refuses to translate and sell it here.   If they do, I'll buy it in a heartbeat, and if it ever gets a re-release, I'd likely buy that, too, but if Nintendo won't let us get our hands on something, I see no harm in downloading it myself.

Now then, I also don't buy used copies of games I can still buy new, either.  It's the same principle, IMO.  Who gets the money from the used games?  Not the developers or the publishers.  GameStop, its subsidiaries, and companies like them do.  If the game is no longer published, I'll buy it used, but that's the only case.  I know that when you buy something, it's yours, but I still think it's dirty that a company like GameStop profits so well for such a crude business.  And yes, they have every right to do so, but I have every right to think that's wrong, too, so there.=P

[Spak-Spang]

Quote
Originally posted by: thatguy
I agree that he's wrong, but I've got some common place views on piracy, I think.  If I own a game, I don't think much about downloading it.  I can tell you that the few games I have downloaded, I own, and would easily buy once released on the VC, despite owning them.  I know it's illegal, but it literally does no harm.  I only use downloading to access something like save states or look into a hack that was made.

The only game I can think of that doesn't fall under this description is Earthbound Zero.  I downloaded and played that to completion, and I may never have a chance of owning any legitimate copy of that game.  If I do get the chance, I'll buy it right away, but if I don't, it's not my fault that the title is absolutely inaccessible to me in every other way.  The second game this would happen with is Mother 3, for similar reasons to above.  I'm not buying the Japanese version of Mother 3, because Nintendo refuses to translate and sell it here.   If they do, I'll buy it in a heartbeat, and if it ever gets a re-release, I'd likely buy that, too, but if Nintendo won't let us get our hands on something, I see no harm in downloading it myself.

Now then, I also don't buy used copies of games I can still buy new, either.  It's the same principle, IMO.  Who gets the money from the used games?  Not the developers or the publishers.  GameStop, its subsidiaries, and companies like them do.  If the game is no longer published, I'll buy it used, but that's the only case.  I know that when you buy something, it's yours, but I still think it's dirty that a company like GameStop profits so well for such a crude business.  And yes, they have every right to do so, but I have every right to think that's wrong, too, so there.=P

You know this is still legally wrong.  You buy the right to use the IP in the given form, but not the right to download it in another form.  It is this slippery slope that is really dangerous for the industry.

Here are some said reasons people have for pirating/emulating and they can be flawed.

1)The game was never released in my country:  It hasn't been released yet.  But as the Wii has pointed out now Sin and Punishment and other games are available.  Or Golden Axe 3 perhaps a better example has finally made its way over now.  After you play the game you are going to decide if you like the game or not and want to buy it if it ever comes out.  If you choose not to buy it you have stolen the game.  Hell if you choose to buy it you steal stole the game for a period of time.

2)I already have the game in one form, I should have the right to play it in other forms:  This is just a gross misunderstanding of the rights you have from buying an IP.  You can't do whatever you want with the property, you can only use it in the form given to you.  Think about it.  I could say, hey I owned a Super Nintendo and at home I play the games there, but on the go I want to use my laptop to play my favorite games on the go....so you download the games.  Well, eventually Nintendo puts those games out on the DS and GBA, but you don't want to play them because you have them on your laptop and it has a bigger screen.  You are stealing that portable experience, that does not belong to you.

3)I will play the game until it is available and buy it once it is out.  Really?  You are going to buy the game you already have right now half beaten for free?  Why?  What if you decided you didn't like the game?  What if you decided that it isn't worth $49.99 but perhaps in a year you will buy it when it is cheaper.  Perhaps that is what you mean by eventually buy it anyway...once it is $20.00 in the bargain bin.  It is still stealing.

Look, I know how easy and tempting it is to steal expensive software.  I used to have photoshop and several other programs I would never afford on my PC.  I used to justify it by saying hey, I need it for school.  But I decided to get rid of all of it.  Even songs and such I had no rights to...and it is frustrating, because I don't have a good photo editor or anything right now.  But at least it is the right thing to do.

People should show respect for those artists and companies that are paying to deliver us the entertainment we love.  And remember there are legal ways to try games out before you buy them to see if you like them.  Renting, friends house, video game demo units, ect, ect.

[Mashiro]

Just for reference, stealing media occurred far before our generation. Mix tapes anyone?  

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1)The game was never released in my country: It hasn't been released yet. But as the Wii has pointed out now Sin and Punishment and other games are available. Or Golden Axe 3 perhaps a better example has finally made its way over now. After you play the game you are going to decide if you like the game or not and want to buy it if it ever comes out. If you choose not to buy it you have stolen the game. Hell if you choose to buy it you steal stole the game for a period of time.

Isn't that a TAD unfair though? Are we supposed to have a crystal ball for what international games are going to be released or not released? Back some years ago before Wii came out should I have not downloaded DBZ: Hyper Dimension to try it just because I should think (by defying all logic) the game will someday see a release on some sort of pay for downloadable service?

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2)I already have the game in one form, I should have the right to play it in other forms: This is just a gross misunderstanding of the rights you have from buying an IP. You can't do whatever you want with the property, you can only use it in the form given to you. Think about it. I could say, hey I owned a Super Nintendo and at home I play the games there, but on the go I want to use my laptop to play my favorite games on the go....so you download the games. Well, eventually Nintendo puts those games out on the DS and GBA, but you don't want to play them because you have them on your laptop and it has a bigger screen. You are stealing that portable experience, that does not belong to you.

But what if I own Super Mario Bros on: NES, SNES (mario all stars), GBA AND VC? I'm not taking away anyones bread and butter if I have it on my computer as well. Even if it is wrong.  

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3)I will play the game until it is available and buy it once it is out. Really? You are going to buy the game you already have right now half beaten for free? Why? What if you decided you didn't like the game? What if you decided that it isn't worth $49.99 but perhaps in a year you will buy it when it is cheaper. Perhaps that is what you mean by eventually buy it anyway...once it is $20.00 in the bargain bin. It is still stealing.

I've done this before actually with the original pokemon. I downloaded the Japanese version of the game and I got about half way through it. Still picked up a blue and red copy on launch day =)

[Spak-Spang]

I am looking at it from the legal perspective, and respecting the creators.

So yeah, even if it is unfair that is the way it should be.

And I understand stealing has always existed in some form.  You could even argue borrowing someone else's books back in the day is stealing, but I think that is going too far.  

[nitsu niflheim]

Super Mario Galaxy is not Mother 3.  SMG will get released in all major area's where as if you want to play Mother 3 you need to either download or find a Japanese cartridge.  

[Mashiro]

I don't think downloading stuff is always a spit in the face to the creators, especially when you CAN NOT buy it in the first place.

Is it legally wrong many years ago I downloaded a DragonBall game that will never ever see the light of day in America? Yes. Did I do it out of disrespect for the creators? No.

Would I buy the game in a heartbeat if it was readily available to me? You bet.

It's not the most terrible thing to do in those cases to me. It may be "illegal" but it's not the end of the world that I did such a thing.  

[that Baby guy]

Right, Spak, I know that's not illegal, but like I said, I do not feel guilty about the few times I've done it.  In those times, I've owned the game in every possible way to own the game, and I only downloaded to have access to the save states, with the exception of EB0 and eventually M3.  I'd buy those two as soon as possible if they were ever released in North America.  So yes, I know it's illegal, but in my specific case, I believe I'm doing no harm.

[Spak-Spang]

Hey, don't sweat it.  I am not trying to tell people what to do.

I guess I am just becoming more sensitive to this stuff because all of my friends are artists.  Either musicians, photographers, film makers/graphic artists...and I look at the future of media and now everything is changing so fast, and that people are beginning to not just expect free content, but demand it...and feel they have the RIGHT to it.  

That scares me...because soon we can and will be able to get anything off the internet quickly and easily...and if people don't have the convictions to monitor themselves then there is no way to stop the pirating on a mass scale.

[denjet78]

Piracy is what you make of it. Certain people will always pirate simply because they can. It has nothing to do with cost. There will always be some level of piracy.

However... that doesn't make the companies being stolen from completely the victim. These same companies are also constantly in the action of trying to limit your rights as consumers. Of trying to find new ways to force you to buy what they want you to buy how they want you to buy it. And they'll do it any way they can. They don't care what's right or what's fair. They only care about how they're going to be able to squeeze you for a few extra cents the next time. And then the next, and the next, and the next.

Just because something is codified in law that doesn't make it right.

If tomorrow the government passed a law stating that everyone had to purchase a copy of such-and-such DVD for whatever cost the company wanted to charge, would everyone here agree with it and just do as they're told simply because it's a "law"?

[Kairon]

When you live in a college environment where people pirate stuff left and right, you learn pretty quickly not to get too judgmental about piracy, for social reasons if for nothing else. I know some Nintendo fans who pirate... and although I'm inwardly saddened to see it happen and they know that I don't pirate at all, it's rare to have an appropriate opening to talk about it.

[that Baby guy]

My roommate has a ton of DVDs he's pirated.  I hate it, but I want to live peaceably with him, so there's nothing I can do about it.  It makes me sad, though, because he'll rent from Blockbuster with some super coupon, and copy them, and keep them.  I don't see it as the same way I pirate.  He has no intention to ever buy any of those movies, even.  It's not even like music, where people download a few songs, then buy the album, it's worse.