Author Topic: Help Stop Global Warming...  (Read 22261 times)

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Offline 18 Days

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RE: Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2007, 11:48:13 PM »
Quote

Water Vapor accounts for more CO2 than anything else.

THIS JUST IN! HYDROGEN MORPHS INTO A QUARTER OF A CARBON ATOM IN WATER'S GASEOUS STATE!

Sorry Spak but you have no scientific cred.  
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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #51 on: October 18, 2007, 02:37:23 AM »
Sigh, 18 Days you are right 1 I have no science cred I am not a scientist.  2 As often many people do in threads, you mess state something when you are trying to think and type too fast.  What I meant is not CO2 levels, but it does account for the gas in the air that can affect global warming.  

Oh well, look I am not an expert, never will I be an expert.  But I have done some research on both sides, and although I incorrectly typed it in this thread does not mean it isn't accurate.  

Also as I stated I think we should be doing more and more for cleaning up, but I think it can be dangerous to force it upon our economy and business to the point it can't compete.  Everyone has this idea that big business and corporations are evil, specially oil companies and such, but they aren't and they do spend money on R&D to make things cleaner, and they are pushing for better fuel economy in engines and stuff.

The truth is, if we lowered taxes on fuel we can cut the price down drastically.  If the federal government would make one single standard of gasoline for the country instead of the states controlling the different blends we could enforce a very clean fuel and have more supply.  

Oh well.  I am a practical list, and the truth is we can't just make policy that cripples our economy when the rest of the world is not going to act...and we can't expect government to do the right thing, because they are all about the power grab.  

But that is besides the point.  I did mistakingly post my point about water vapors, and I don't have science cred so my entire opinion must be devoid of reason and fact...even though if you just look and find other scientists work that disagree with global warming you might find some interesting arguments that just might have merit.  But then again, you would have to decide then to believe in the fear of global warming or believe in idea it is a hoax.  The truth is neither is a good place to be.  

I don't want to believe that the world is going to end because of Global Warming because if it is...there is nothing, I mean nothing we can truly do about it.  The world is not going to change, and even our policies and ideas for changing it our stupid.  But then on the other side is believing that scientists would be willing to to either purposely create the false conclusions to global warming or either political or personal funding reasons.  Or, our scientists can easily make the wrong assumptions to data collected and ask the wrong questions to the relationships between elements in their research.

So yeah, the global warming debate is interesting, and most people that do not believe it is man made are not self fish and they aren't advocating no action to helping clean the environment.  We are simply thinking we look at the problem from more rational eyes that won't decide to do something worse for the world...like use a FOOD SOURCE to create fuel...a food source that actually takes more energy currently to create it into a usable fuel than it creates.


Offline S-U-P-E-R

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RE:Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #52 on: October 18, 2007, 03:05:41 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Sigh, 18 Days you are right 1 I have no science cred I am not a scientist.  2 As often many people do in threads, you mess state something when you are trying to think and type too fast.  What I meant is not CO2 levels, but it does account for the gas in the air that can affect global warming.  

Oh well, look I am not an expert, never will I be an expert.  But I have done some research on both sides, and although I incorrectly typed it in this thread does not mean it isn't accurate.  

Also as I stated I think we should be doing more and more for cleaning up, but I think it can be dangerous to force it upon our economy and business to the point it can't compete.  Everyone has this idea that big business and corporations are evil, specially oil companies and such, but they aren't and they do spend money on R&D to make things cleaner, and they are pushing for better fuel economy in engines and stuff.

The truth is, if we lowered taxes on fuel we can cut the price down drastically.  If the federal government would make one single standard of gasoline for the country instead of the states controlling the different blends we could enforce a very clean fuel and have more supply.  

Oh well.  I am a practical list, and the truth is we can't just make policy that cripples our economy when the rest of the world is not going to act...and we can't expect government to do the right thing, because they are all about the power grab.  

But that is besides the point.  I did mistakingly post my point about water vapors, and I don't have science cred so my entire opinion must be devoid of reason and fact...even though if you just look and find other scientists work that disagree with global warming you might find some interesting arguments that just might have merit.  But then again, you would have to decide then to believe in the fear of global warming or believe in idea it is a hoax.  The truth is neither is a good place to be.  

I don't want to believe that the world is going to end because of Global Warming because if it is...there is nothing, I mean nothing we can truly do about it.  The world is not going to change, and even our policies and ideas for changing it our stupid.  But then on the other side is believing that scientists would be willing to to either purposely create the false conclusions to global warming or either political or personal funding reasons.  Or, our scientists can easily make the wrong assumptions to data collected and ask the wrong questions to the relationships between elements in their research.

So yeah, the global warming debate is interesting, and most people that do not believe it is man made are not self fish and they aren't advocating no action to helping clean the environment.  We are simply thinking we look at the problem from more rational eyes that won't decide to do something worse for the world...like use a FOOD SOURCE to create fuel...a food source that actually takes more energy currently to create it into a usable fuel than it creates.




ahahahahahah

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2007, 03:11:20 AM »
Who here has scientific credentials? All I see is a PHD in BS from everyone!
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Offline bustin98

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RE:Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2007, 03:24:22 AM »
But who needs a piece of paper to say they are allowed to express opinions and quote documents? No one here is actually conducting experiments and observations.

And to think there weren't any scientists before universities came along. It amazing we survived at all.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2007, 03:31:16 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: bustin98
But who needs a piece of paper to say they are allowed to express opinions and quote documents? No one here is actually conducting experiments and observations.

And to think there weren't any scientists before universities came along. It amazing we survived at all.



Not sure if you are serious, but science is more about what you observe and testing your hypothesis then someone who went to university. Some of the most brilliant people in our history didn't go to a university either.  
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Offline 18 Days

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RE: Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #56 on: October 18, 2007, 03:41:44 AM »
Yeah I figured you were on the right track Spak. Water Vapour is a greenhouse gas. I just felt like some funhouse fun.

You do raise some intresting points, I agree taht biofuel is a poor 'solution' and will never really acheive anything. But you make some poor points, like the US shoudln't have to hurt it's economy while the rest of the world does nothing. News Flash: The rest of the world is already doing so much more, than the US. And here's the thing. If we DO act vigourosly on global warming and it turns out that the whole thing was hyperbole, so what? The global economy might go into slight recession but it couldn't possibly be hurt as much as it was in The Great Depression or any Wall Street collapse for that matter. Life will go on even with a weaker economy.
But
If we DON'T do anything and it turns out Global Warming is for real and is as bad as thousands of scientists say it is, we are absolutely screwed. Life as we know it, will not go on.

I'm not going to take my chances. Let's just play this one safe.
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Offline Mashiro

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RE: Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #57 on: October 18, 2007, 04:16:16 AM »
Quote

If we DON'T do anything and it turns out Global Warming is for real and is as bad as thousands of scientists say it is, we are absolutely screwed. Life as we know it, will not go on.

I'm not going to take my chances. Let's just play this one safe.


Lol exactly.

Offline ShyGuy

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RE: Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #58 on: October 18, 2007, 04:34:55 AM »
When I was three years old, I threw rocks through the glass panes of my mom's greenhouse. Little did I know I was releasing evil gasses that would destroy the world.

Offline Athrun Zala

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RE: Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #59 on: October 18, 2007, 04:37:57 AM »
according to the mayan calendar, the world ends on 2012 anyways...
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Offline decoyman

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RE:Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #60 on: October 18, 2007, 04:41:58 AM »
I was gonna shut up. I was gonna stop after my last post. BUT 30-SOME POSTS LATER IT KEEPS GOING SO I MUST CHIME IN!!!

Ok, in any industry, there are going to be people who are more interested in personal gain than the greater good. However, I think the idea that scientists are pushing this to gain research funding, rather than Big Industry pushing to discredit the findings about Global Warming or position it as "theory" in order to safeguard their financial standing... If you think about it, the scientists have much, much less to gain from being right.*

Any scientific movement is going to take flak when it is announced if it isn't beneficial to all involved, or if the findings are negative or unpopular. I mean, look at the great scientific findings of the past: Galileo was imprisoned and ridiculed for suggesting the Copernican model of the galaxy (that the earth wasn't the center of the universe). Before that, people were once convinced that the earth was flat, or that it was impossible to cross the equator because of the harsh temperatures. History is full of these follies of popular belief. But what is common to all of them? No matter how hard people fought against these scientific findings, inevitably they became accepted; it's hard to fight against overwhelming evidence for any period of time without losing credibility.

I'll be the first to tell you that certain things pertaining to energy and the environment don't necessarily make sense. I'm not convinced on the viability of ethanol, and I'm from Nebraska, where it could bring TONS of cash into the state. (Well, except in the case of closed-loop systems or in smaller-scale, local operations. Then, I'm all for it.) But Global Warming? The evidence is mounting, with even the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change concluding in their fourth assessment report (AR4) that:

• Warming of the climate system is unequivocal.
• Most of (>50% of) the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely (confidence level >90%) due to the observed increase in anthropogenic (human) greenhouse gas concentrations.
• The probability that this is caused by natural climatic processes alone is less than 5%.
• World temperatures could rise by between 1.1 and 6.4 °C (2.0 and 11.5 °F) during the 21st century

They also talk about the measurements on how much oceans could rise, and all sorts of fun stuff like droughts, flooding, heat waves (do I need to mention the heat wave in France a few years ago that killed so many people?), and so on. That's 2,000 scientists from all over the world (150-some countries) who were involved in these studies. I hope I don't need to say what sort of weight that gives their case.

* Further, there is evidence that political lobbyists from ExxonMobil, in a memo to President Bush, pushed to replace the chairman of the IPCC with someone more "industry-friendly." That's also on the IPCC page I linked to above.

P.S. – 18 Days is right on. Except I feel that Green Industry could actually help our economy. Alternative energy sources are being refined and improved for efficiency all the time. I drove through California a few months ago, and there were MILES AND MILES AND MILES of wind turbines, as far as the eye could see, all generating clean and renewable electricity. That made me feel good. And then I come back to Nebraska where we're pushing ethanol so hard, and I hear a statistic that we're like the 6th windiest state. We have like three wind turbines in Lincoln that I've seen. What the crap? Makes no sense! From what I understand in speaking with someone from a biofuel company here in Lincoln, Wind-Power companies in California are making a killing. Unfortunately, here, our hesitance to adopt wind is at least in part because we have public utilities here who don't want to change. But it's frustrating that we've got all this potential, and we're not using it. And it's all because the status quo is easier in the short term, and that's what people care about. Folllow the path of least resistance. Well, the path of least resistance could land us in a pile of trouble later on, and it's stupid when we can do something about it now.

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Offline ShyGuy

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RE: Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #61 on: October 18, 2007, 04:46:50 AM »
Unclebob has destroyed the funhouse, he just doesn't know it yet. I think I'll go start some joke threads about abortion, racism, and homosexuality.

Offline UncleBob

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RE: Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #62 on: October 18, 2007, 04:55:41 AM »
We've had abortion threads....
Just some random guy on the internet who has a different opinion of games than you.

Offline decoyman

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RE: Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #63 on: October 18, 2007, 05:05:39 AM »
So, there's a priest, a minister and a rabbi in a rowboat in the middle of a lake...
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #64 on: October 18, 2007, 07:01:15 AM »
Actually I'm still waiting for the mini ice age scientists were predicting as well. My guess is if the world is getting hotter and colder at once, then it neutralizes itself.
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Offline vudu

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RE:Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #65 on: October 18, 2007, 07:36:25 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: S-U-P-E-R
locking a thread in the funhouse. lol.
It's happened before.

Speaking of which, if someone doesn't unlock the second thread quickly, wandering will owe ShyGuy one delicious* box of frookies.
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline Crimm

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RE:Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #66 on: October 18, 2007, 07:48:00 AM »
This thread needs more Internet Fight.
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Offline Mashiro

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RE: Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #67 on: October 18, 2007, 08:10:14 AM »
Speaking of locked threads in the funhouse . . . wasn't the HAWTNESS thread locked?

and then deleted?

:cries:

Offline Crimm

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RE:Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #68 on: October 18, 2007, 08:20:45 AM »
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Originally posted by: Mashiro
Speaking of locked threads in the funhouse . . . wasn't the HAWTNESS thread locked?

and then deleted?

:cries:


Burned first, then buried in a sealed container, and then deleted.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #69 on: October 18, 2007, 08:27:51 AM »
Hawtness thread was causing global warming from all the horny guys looking at it. It had to be closed for environmental reasons.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #70 on: October 18, 2007, 08:29:28 AM »
I just hope these people ranting here are walking or riding a bike everywhere they go.
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Offline Mashiro

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RE: Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #71 on: October 18, 2007, 08:33:04 AM »
I think there's a stark difference between acknowledging a problem (see: pollution) and just turning your back and saying "I don't give a crap about the planet, scientists are liars!"

Offline 18 Days

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RE:Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #72 on: October 18, 2007, 08:46:33 AM »
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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Actually I'm still waiting for the mini ice age scientists were predicting as well. My guess is if the world is getting hotter and colder at once, then it neutralizes itself.

Oh yes Global Cooling. the 70s. It was later discovered that Nuclear Fallout was responsible for the slight dip in temperature. And NO we are not going to return to nuclear testing.

Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I just hope these people ranting here are walking or riding a bike everywhere they go.

Oh and for the record. I've refueled my car twice in the past 4 months, my household pumps it's washing machine grey water into teh veggie patch, which is also fertalised by our worm farm. We do the dishes by hand, and hang the washing out to dry on the line. We use recycled toilet paper and fill up our recycling bin quicker than our garbage one (Then again we drink a lot of beer.)
This is what happens when you live in a student household who's degrees consist of Enviro Science (x2), Marine Biology and Education.
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Offline decoyman

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RE:Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #73 on: October 18, 2007, 11:08:59 AM »
Regardless of whether I personally do things that are healthy for the environment doesn't change the fact that the overwhelming consensus in the scientific community is that global warming is real. It would just mean I'm a hypocrite!

(But, coincidentally, I do ride my bike or take the bus to work and I live in a downtown area, so I can walk most everywhere I need to go. Today, though, I'm cursing the Wii Forecast Channel because it told me it would just be cloudy today so I took my bike, and it's been raining since I got here. )  
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Help Stop Global Warming...
« Reply #74 on: October 18, 2007, 11:21:27 AM »
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Originally posted by: decoyman
Regardless of whether I personally do things that are healthy for the environment doesn't change the fact that the overwhelming consensus in the scientific community is that global warming is real. It would just mean I'm a hypocrite!

(But, coincidentally, I do ride my bike or take the bus to work and I live in a downtown area, so I can walk most everywhere I need to go. Today, though, I'm cursing the Wii Forecast Channel because it told me it would just be cloudy today so I took my bike, and it's been raining since I got here. )


I would have trouble riding a bike to my job considering even in the car it takes 2hrs one way.
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