Author Topic: Nintendo Fans vs. the Third Parties (Read 9457 times)

couchmonkey · « **on:** March 25, 2003, 07:53:01 AM »

Going through the XGRA thread, I noticed one person assuming the game would be bad just because it was made by a third party. It seems to me that Nintendo fans are rather prejudiced against third party developers, and I wonder if that's affecting the support Nintendo gets?

To be fair, Nintendo fans have reason to be picky, with the best first and second party software of the three consoles. But that doesn't mean that all third party games are bad. I think excellent titles like Timesplitters 2 get swept under the rug because we're too busy buying ever single thing Nintendo makes, and it's no wonder these developers don't feel like spending money developing more titles for the Cube.

Hmm, I don't know where to go from there, but that's the nice thing about forums, now it's up to someone else to do the writing.

Moonwatcher · « **Reply #1 on:** March 25, 2003, 08:38:23 AM »

I agree.

We (Nintendo Fans) do tend to be dismissive of 3rd party titles.
Problem is, we also tend to get shoddy ports that are months too late.

The Omen · « **Reply #2 on:** March 25, 2003, 09:13:44 AM »

I think you will see it's the quality of ports that really upsets Nintendo supporters. Like Baldurs Gate , for instance. Getting Splinter Cell later than even the ps2 , would be even more dis-heartening, if not for it being an improved port. So I think it will sell really well. Ports don't sell well because they've been crap. As far as XGRA, it's Acclaim, and they basically suck with the majority of their titles, so don't be surprised when they are not respected.

Cap · « **Reply #3 on:** March 25, 2003, 09:56:52 AM »

for the most part i do ignore third party games, but most dont make anything worth purchasing. the ones that do release a shoddy port 6-12 months later then the other consoles, or dont release it for gamecube at all. the sad part is that the devlopers dont realize why their games dont sell on gamecube. baldurs gate is one title that i was planning to buy, despite how bad i heard the port was. unfortunately i couldnt even find the game anywhere(and now the sequal wont be coming to gamecube at all from the looks of it). the only third party games i have in my collection are from capcom and sega, both who have put out some great games for gamecube, and my next third party game will be splinter cell. i'm not really prejudice against third party games, just bad games. that, and i can only afford to buy so many games.

Darc Requiem · « **Reply #4 on:** March 25, 2003, 10:01:24 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Going through the XGRA thread, I noticed one person assuming the game would be bad just because it was made by a third party. It seems to me that Nintendo fans are rather prejudiced against third party developers, and I wonder if that's affecting the support Nintendo gets?

To be fair, Nintendo fans have reason to be picky, with the best first and second party software of the three consoles. But that doesn't mean that all third party games are bad. I think excellent titles like Timesplitters 2 get swept under the rug because we're too busy buying ever single thing Nintendo makes, and it's no wonder these developers don't feel like spending money developing more titles for the Cube.

Hmm, I don't know where to go from there, but that's the nice thing about forums, now it's up to someone else to do the writing.

I can understand your point of view couchmonkey, but I can also see the cynical view as well. The current Nintendo Gamers have been jaded by the their experience with the N64 and Gamecube, the N64 situation was Nintendo's fault and I like many GC owners are wondering whats the excuse for third parties now. The GC is much cheaper, easier to develop for and has a much larger storage medium. Yet we continue to get substandard ports, there are a few exceptions Bloody Roar Primal Fury, Smuggles Run Warzones come to mind, but we also get the game last, with the worse frame rate, and worst textures. If the GC had the same hardware problems of the PS2 it would be understandable but it doesn't. So is it affecting the support we get? Yes it is, but at this point its the direct fault of the third parties in my view. You get what you put into things, if they are gonna half ass the ports they are gonna get substandard sales. In general well done ports sell well on GC. Third parties should take note of that.

Darc Requiem

Nephilim · « **Reply #5 on:** March 25, 2003, 11:06:33 AM »

I own 4 games from nintendo, all up I own 13 games
another 3 of them are from sega
I buy wantever looks good, I think the most under-rated game is largo winch..
most nintendo sites dont even have reviews of the game
timesplitters was hyped by fanboy sites before it was released, i found the game boring after the first time finishing it
I dont know why ppl think its under-rated, quality on the game is high, but gameplay has been done before....its a bore

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #6 on:** March 25, 2003, 12:26:28 PM »

Nintendo fans have every right to dismiss a third party game, because Nintendo will undoubtably be better.

However, you should not. I have played some very fun third party games (none that I liked more than Nintendo, in general, but they were still spectacular), and while certain developers (like Rare) should be avoided, others are very skilled in the art of video game making.

One thing I don't get. . . XGRA is made by a third party. . . but isn't F-zero, too? It's a Nintendo product, but Sega's making it (just a comment, Sega is definitely one of those skilled developers).

blu knight · « **Reply #7 on:** March 25, 2003, 09:13:07 PM »

I think the topic of this thread speaks for itself....."Nintendo Fans vs. the Third Parties". If you're a big fan of Nintendo then obviously you've bought the Cube and most of the 1st party Nintendo games. I think the problem is that 3rd parties compare software sales of all 3 home consoles(two of which live off 3rd party support)and only look at the bottom line which has the Cube lagging in 3rd party sales. Still there are some Cube owners who want better/more 3rd party support and I think they deserve it. Nintendo does make the majority of great games in this industry but if you don't own a PS2, or GBA for that matter, you are missing out on some of the best nonNintendo developed software around.

Grey Ninja · « **Reply #8 on:** March 25, 2003, 10:28:45 PM »

I have no problem with 3rd party games, but I have yet to see one on GameCube that's worthy of me spending money on, besides the exclusive titles, such as Resident Evil and Rogue Leader.

Splinter Cell I will buy at some point I am sure, and Skies of Arcadia DEFINATELY when I get the money for it, and it finds its way to my place.

SSX Tricky was fun, but not something I want to shell out my hard earned money for.

Short and sweet of it? I have better things to buy, it's not that I don't like the 3rd parties, it's just that I don't like 2nd rate games. It would be fine if I had a PS2 or Xbox, as those systems survive on 2nd rate games, but on GameCube, we actually have a choice.

egman · « **Reply #9 on:** March 26, 2003, 04:00:05 AM »

I agree all round with the views on this thread. I think the majority of Cube fans are not against 3rd parties, just bad software. I notice alot of us on this board (including me) are also Sega, Namco,Capcom, Square and Konami fans--these are the companies who I personally consider as the cream of the crop among 3rd parties. Ubi Soft also seems to be doing great things lately and I think when I get the chance I'll pick up the new Rayman. I'm also excited about the Splinter Cell port, even though Cube is getting it last. In spite of the delay though, it sounds like they are really taking the oppurtunity to make a port acceptable to Cube fans, which gets my respect.

As for the other companies, I think they do underestimate the tastes of the Cube buyers. First of all, some of us have mutilple systems, so a bad port defintately loses money in that case. I also think that in spite of what developers perceive, I think a really large part of the Cube's audience (at least the one spending the most on software) is adult, which makes it hard to sell large quanities of something like the Rugrats. I'm not privy to any substanstial studies or analysis of gamging population, but I wonder if the GameCube's consumer base is more or less split between the really young and older gamers while the other consoles squarely have their peak somewhere in the middle with the 13-17 year olds.

The Omen · « **Reply #10 on:** March 26, 2003, 08:59:35 AM »

Quote
I'm not privy to any substanstial studies or analysis of gamging population, but I wonder if the GameCube's consumer base is more or less split between the really young and older gamers while the other consoles squarely have their peak somewhere in the middle with the 13-17 year olds.

I believe there was a report that said Nintendo was missing out on the teen audience, but had older and younger gamers covered. So you'd be correct. The problem is, if you weren't a Nin fan growing up, and your now 13-17, you probably would not buy a Nin system. Plus, that age is the most into 'looking cool', and all that other crap, so it'll be a tough road to hoe for Nin. I think if they get exclusivity deals with some major 3rd party games, that all could change. In fact, the EA' agreement ' is a great step in the right direction.

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #11 on:** March 26, 2003, 12:50:25 PM »

I'm 16 and a loyal Nintendo fan. Then again I grew up with it, and I'm far from wanting to pretend I'm cool. I don't need to pretend.

Hmm. . . we call all non-Nintendo third party developers. . .
Nintendo is technically the only first party, right? Ever since Sega dropped out of the console war.
And I was wondering, what's a second class party?

Christberg · « **Reply #12 on:** March 26, 2003, 01:12:43 PM »

I wouldn't say it's an "us vs. them" situation at all.

Nintendo makes the best titles for their system for the most part. When third parties actually take the effort to make something worthwhile/decent for the GC, then they're generally pretty well rewarded. Especially where exclusives are concerned. I'd say that games like RLII, Monkey Ball, Resident Evil, Sonic, and even more recently titles like Godzilla have done pretty well on the little box.

Granted, some titles suffer for a reason. You cited Timesplitters 2 for example. Well, that's great and all, but think about this: The title released two weeks after the other versions. Do you remember the commercial for it? At the beginning there's a huge splash of "First Halo, now this!"-Official Xbox Magazine and then at the end of the commercial, it had a HUGE PS2 logo, a medium size Xbox logo, and a tiny GC logo. Also, I remember trying to buy it for GC- I had to SPECIAL ORDER it because stores were on "shipped a pathetically small amount and there was no idea when they'd be able to get more" for the game. Straight from a Gamestop manager's mouth.

So, when a company doesn't promote that it's even on GC, ships a pathetically small amount, and ships it later than the other versions they have no reason to grumble about it when the title sells poorly. Granted, this situation has been getting better, but I've had this problem buying several GC titles, including but not limited to: Mortal Kombat, Timesplitters 2, Two Towers, Tony Hawk 4, and a couple others I can't remember offhand.

Do I blame Nintendo? Hardly.

blu knight · « **Reply #13 on:** March 26, 2003, 08:18:08 PM »

So where does the blame go? 3rd parties, like all game developers, are trying to make money. I can't blame them for releasing small shipments of Cube software, especially when the games aren't selling well. What angers me is when the games are delayed and/or are of poor quality. But we should have all seen this coming; Nintendo hasn't given us a reason to go out and buy 3rd party titles. Starting August to November 2002 we saw some big 1st party titles coming out less than every month or so(Mario Sunshine, StarFox, Mario Party, Animal Crossing, Metroid). 5 big name exclusive titles in 4 months is unheard of with Nintendo, so Cube gamers were more than satisfied and the sales charts had showed it. I enjoyed the shower of games but maybe this is one of the reasons why Cube 3rd party sales have suffered.

RahXephon · « **Reply #14 on:** March 26, 2003, 11:13:38 PM »

I own an xbox as well as i use my friends PS2, and we aren't missing much. THe third party stuff is third-rate. Some of it is good, nearly ALL RPGS for example, but alot is bad. One thing i do love about my GC is that it has the smallest library, but has the best soft-ware. Rember fellow fanboys, it is quality over quantity. We have more deserving game than any other system even with the little games we have out. So don't you worry. Besides, the only other companies to really worry about are SEGA and of course, the other-love of my life, Square. Nintendo and my fiance are tied for second.............................. Dude, there is a HUGE scratch across my entire upper fore arm and i dont know where it came from... and i gotta go to school in an hour....... Anyway, dont worry about us not liking 3rd party, we just have better games.

Darc Requiem · « **Reply #15 on:** March 27, 2003, 04:32:01 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: egman
I agree all round with the views on this thread. I think the majority of Cube fans are not against 3rd parties, just bad software. I notice alot of us on this board (including me) are also Sega, Namco,Capcom, Square and Konami fans--these are the companies who I personally consider as the cream of the crop among 3rd parties. Ubi Soft also seems to be doing great things lately and I think when I get the chance I'll pick up the new Rayman. I'm also excited about the Splinter Cell port, even though Cube is getting it last. In spite of the delay though, it sounds like they are really taking the oppurtunity to make a port acceptable to Cube fans, which gets my respect.

As for the other companies, I think they do underestimate the tastes of the Cube buyers. First of all, some of us have mutilple systems, so a bad port defintately loses money in that case. I also think that in spite of what developers perceive, I think a really large part of the Cube's audience (at least the one spending the most on software) is adult, which makes it hard to sell large quanities of something like the Rugrats. I'm not privy to any substanstial studies or analysis of gamging population, but I wonder if the GameCube's consumer base is more or less split between the really young and older gamers while the other consoles squarely have their peak somewhere in the middle with the 13-17 year olds.

Hey Egman, I'm not sure if you know this but Splinter Cell's release date was moved up to April 8th. Between that and Burnout 2 I have to come up with $100 in the next 2 weeks. Not mention I have to find another job!!

Darc Requiem

godwheel · « **Reply #16 on:** March 27, 2003, 05:11:48 AM »

It depends. I really just enjoy good games but it seems Nintendo seems to make the best games. I therefore reserve most of my money for those excellent 1rst party titles. Now it doesn't mean I don't buy third party games. I currently own the following third party games:

Beach Spikers
Dr. Muto
FIFA Soccer 2002 Major League Soccer
Hunter: The Reckoning (It was 5 bucks ok? and yes the game sucks!)
Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance
NASCAR Thunder 2003
NFL Blitz 20-02
Resident Evil
SSX Tricky
Star Wars Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader
Super Monkey Ball 2

The next three games I plan to get are also third party:
Burnout 2
Splinter Cell
Hitman 2 (depends on the controls...)

First Party I Have:
Animal Crossing
Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem
Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time / Master Quest
Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
Metroid Prime
Star Fox Adventures
Super Mario Sunshine
Super Smash Bros. Melee
Wave Race: Blue Storm

It is no surprise though that my fav games on the GC so far are MOSTLY Nintendo developed/published games

(in order)

Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem
Animal Crossing
Super Mario Sunshine
Metroid Prime
Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance

And the reason Zelda is not up there yet is because I've only played it 2 hours so far

Kai · « **Reply #17 on:** March 27, 2003, 06:08:35 AM »

My problem with a lot of recent third party games for the 'cube is that they don't interest me. We have Disney sports (gee, thanks Konami) we have Piglet's big Adventure and (soon) The Hobbit. We have just about every Super Hero game under the Sun.

I want more third party games on the 'cube. If the third parties make them, I'll buy them. But I like racing games, FPS, adventure, Survival Horror, that sort of thing. Whereas a lot of third party games for the cube seem to be directed at a younger demographic.

Game such as Splinter Cell, Burnout and so on, I will support those games. There just aren't enough of them.

Edit / I do enjoy games like SMB, which is well done and appeals to all-ages.

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #18 on:** March 27, 2003, 11:46:13 AM »

Godwheel, your number of games just plain hurts.

I only have one third party game: Gauntlet Legends. It was fun, but I'm awaiting a few other good ones. Like Killer 7.

godwheel · « **Reply #19 on:** March 27, 2003, 12:45:27 PM »

It is not as big as it looks. I got most of those games at bargain prices (specially the third party titles). Surprinsingly enough I try to beat the games before I buy the next one. I don't really spend that much money

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #20 on:** March 27, 2003, 12:54:10 PM »

That works, I suppose. I usually only get Nintendo games, though. I only have six games, not counting WW, which will soon be in my pocket (metaphorically speaking). Most of my GC collection should come in the rest of the year. . . many games are coming out, and there is plenty of time, money, and holidays to cover all of them.

Christberg · « **Reply #21 on:** March 27, 2003, 04:37:49 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: blu knight
So where does the blame go? 3rd parties, like all game developers, are trying to make money. I can't blame them for releasing small shipments of Cube software, especially when the games aren't selling well. What angers me is when the games are delayed and/or are of poor quality. But we should have all seen this coming; Nintendo hasn't given us a reason to go out and buy 3rd party titles. Starting August to November 2002 we saw some big 1st party titles coming out less than every month or so(Mario Sunshine, StarFox, Mario Party, Animal Crossing, Metroid). 5 big name exclusive titles in 4 months is unheard of with Nintendo, so Cube gamers were more than satisfied and the sales charts had showed it. I enjoyed the shower of games but maybe this is one of the reasons why Cube 3rd party sales have suffered.

Both Mortal Kombat and TimeSplitters were preorders and the companies couldn't be bothered to ship enough copies to even fill that. I'd say that shipping too few copies of something and not giving it enough exposure are the company who produced the software's fault. It really bothers me because while I have all 3 systems, I just prefer playing games on my GC for the most part, largely due to my wavebird. I hate cords now.

The first time this happened to me I wrote it off as a distributor issue. The second time I wrote it off as a fluke, but the third time and from now on out I see an emergent pattern that I don't like and that's that third parties haven't given their titles a fair shake on Nintendo's platform, with a few rare exceptions. I see botched ports, nonexistent advertising that they exist, not enough copies that people actually see them on store shelves, and more. Go look in your local store at the Xbox section next to the GC section, realize that they have about the same number of available titles, and think about why. Granted, that can't entirely be blamed on the publishers, but still, it's a big problem Nintendo has right now that affects their market perception and I hope they can get it straightened out soon.

Granted, there's other reasons too, but...

Darc Requiem · « **Reply #22 on:** March 28, 2003, 08:06:20 AM »

I agree with you completely Christberg. I have Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance, it was supposed to be out the same day as the X-box and PS2 versions but I had to go three different stores to find it. Gamestop didn't have it, neither did TRU, EB had it but it wasn't even displayed the guy had to go in the back and look for it. If I hadn't asked he wouldn't have even known it was out for GC. Gamestop actually said its not out for GC. WTF. You can't blame that on Nintendo. Look at PS0, I seen several posters complain that they can't find PSO. Especially when it was first released. Sega has a serious problem with shipping enough software, they have the same problem with Skies of Arcadia Legends. I see a number of posters complaining that they still haven't been able to find a copy. So you can't complain about sales of your software when you customers that want your product but your not shipping it to them. Now somethings are Nintendo's fault, the lack of modems and broadband adapters and their laziness when it comes to supporting third party titles that want to take advantage of the GC's online capabilites. But a lot of the problems with third party game sales can be directly attributed to the third parties themselves. I mean a lot of games don't even know that there is a GC version of a game and half the time its a substandard port. Its the third parties job to advertise the game and to make sure gamers no it exists. Their is racing game for GC....a Rally game...can't even remember its name. Its GC exclusive though and the company never advertised it at all. If anyone can remember games name please tell me, but my point is you can't sale product if you the gamers don't know its there.

Darc Requiem

penguincube · « **Reply #23 on:** March 28, 2003, 04:44:49 PM »

I would most definantly not think a game is bad because it is third party, but us Nintendo fans DO have a reason for thinking Nintendo is better. Because, they are.

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Author Topic: Nintendo Fans vs. the Third Parties (Read 9457 times)