Topic: The more I think about it...

[Sessha]

I have to agree with Mashiro it didn't bother me.  Swords can't fall under realistic violence?  A sword is a very long knife, Pit has two daggers.  Those two things are not that hard to find.  A knife could have been incorperated in as a short range A attack.  If you want to get really technical, don't let Pikachu use his lightning attack on Mario he may look fine but he's being burned internally.  

It's not realistic violence if there is no realistic repricussion.  Yes it's slapstick to hit someone with Peach's frying pan, but that's not imitatible?  

If I concede that snake shouldn't use any real weapons what makes him distinguishable from any other character?  There's already a mine in Smash, Samus has a missle.  Snake needs an anchor point so people can tell that it's snake.  

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
I wasn't bothered by it.

Quote
Using guns would fall under the realistic violence category.

But what about Looney Tunes using guns! Double standards! Zoinks!

Also Fox never had a realistic gun did he?

Even the guns were used on a cartoony level. Bullets were never shown and characters that were shot at had a comical effect afterwards, like the face turning black or in Daffy's case his bill would be blown off. And just so you know, guns have been edited out of some Looney Tunes cartoons, especially when they are used to imply suicide or a more realistic effect (like pointing it at their heads and fainting afterwards). They kept it uncensored for the collector's set but when they air them on channels like Boomerang and Cartoon Network they use the censored version.

And even if Fox never had a realistic gun they did work hard on developing it so that it produced a sci-fi effect than a violent one.

Look, like S_B stated earlier this discussion is going nowhere. Its abundantly clear that neither side will budge and that no matter our feelings about it the neck snap is still in the game.

[Mashiro]

Quote
Even the guns were used on a cartoony level. Bullets were never shown and characters that were shot at had a comical effect afterwards, like the face turning black or in Daffy's case his bill would be blown off. And just so you know, guns have been edited out of some Looney Tunes cartoons, especially when they are used to imply suicide or a more realistic effect (like pointing it at their heads and fainting afterwards). They kept it uncensored for the collector's set but when they air them on channels like Boomerang and Cartoon Network they use the censored version.

Bullets were shown speeding through the air on many occasions . . . and in Space Jam Porky and one of the other characters shoot realistic current days guns to blow out someone's teeth (try this kids at home! as bender would say . . . lol)

For the censorship, it just shows how overly sensitive society is to certain things. What the kids from years ago are any different from the kid today?

**Time for a Looney Tunes thread!**

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro

Quote
Even the guns were used on a cartoony level. Bullets were never shown and characters that were shot at had a comical effect afterwards, like the face turning black or in Daffy's case his bill would be blown off. And just so you know, guns have been edited out of some Looney Tunes cartoons, especially when they are used to imply suicide or a more realistic effect (like pointing it at their heads and fainting afterwards). They kept it uncensored for the collector's set but when they air them on channels like Boomerang and Cartoon Network they use the censored version.

Bullets were shown speeding through the air on many occasions . . . and in Space Jam Porky and one of the other characters shoot realistic current days guns to blow out someone's teeth (try this kids at home! as bender would say . . . lol)

For the censorship, it just shows how overly sensitive society is to certain things. What the kids from years ago are any different from the kid today?

**Time for a Looney Tunes thread!**

No one, not even hardcore Looney Tunes fans, acknowledge Space Jam as a real Looney Tunes film. And that scene was a lame attempt at injecting pop culture into the LT franchise.

[Mashiro]

Lol so that means it doesn't count?

Gotcha . . . we should just apply the same thought to Super Smash Bros!

No one, not even hardcore Nintendo fans really consider Snake to be a real part of the Smash Bros. universe. And that move of his is a lame attempt of adding references to a game franchise that's primarily on another system.

Wasn't that easy?

Case closed =D

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro It isn't escaping me because it remains cartoony. What is escaping you, my friend, is you keep saying "Mario is being executed". He isn't. He isn't being killed.

Breaking a neck is an execution maneuver, and we've established that, yes, he gets up afterwards, just as Leon is back in one piece when you load your last save and Sub-Zero is still in the character select screen even though he was brutally murdered three seconds ago.

An execution move shouldn't be part of a SSB game. I know you don't mind blood, but there has to be a line somewhere? Where is it? I don't care if the character gets back up. I don't want to see Nintendo characters wince in pain as Snake performs an execution on them. It doesn't matter if they get up moments later.

And FYI, Snake has been in a fighting game without his *GASP* precious neck snap even though it was half created by Konami, imagine that!

Quote
It's still unrealistic and cartoony without that because, again, the party having his/her/it's neck snapped isn't dying. They are just going to sleep and will be back up again in a moments notice to fight again.

It doesn't matter if Mario gets up. The act was done. I'm not saying "OMFG MARIO IS DEAD!!" over here. I just find it grotesque and out of place.

Quote
When did I mention Mario 64? I mentioned Soul Calibur II and Link being put in harms way and in situations which very real and potentially deadly maneuvers are done to a Nintendo mascot/icon.

Link is a naturally more violent character, but aside from that Link isn't Mario, Yoshi, DK, Peach, Bowser, Lucas, etc.

And for the 3rd time, SSB isn't SC. They're different games, and when Link was placed in the game, I'm quite certain Nintendo understood that the game would up the ante a bit in terms of violence and they were ok with it.

But SSB is designed from the ground up to NOT be a game filled with realistic violence. The premise of the game even involves knocking characters off the screen so it can sidestep the usual violence revolving around beating each other into submission. Why change a working formula now?

Quote
You keep saying how you have a hard time believing Miyamoto or Nintendo would let this in the game and happen to one of their characters

I said it once or twice, but it's far from the crux of my argument. I AM surprised that Shiggy's shining star, Mario, is being subjected to something like that. Miyamoto doesn't cross me as the type who could watch Mario having his neck broken and just shrug it off.

Frankly, this isn't about Miyamoto. It's about ME. I find it out of place and gratuitous for a SSB game.

Quote
1. Where does it say their neck or bones are broken or implied at being broken? Again you keep taking the move out of context. If they character is just sleeping and bounces back up and is fine then where does it imply that they have broken bones or a neck? There is no neck snapping sound or anything so if the character just goes to sleep and pops back up fine then what's the big deal?

First of all, we haven't heard what noise the move actually makes.

Second, I've played MGS games: that's Snake's neck snap. He does EXACTLY those motions in the MGS games after he executes a guard.

Quote
2. SSB is a game which revolves around characters fighting and using trade mark moves and abilities against one another.

And yet Snake doesn't break necks in a game Konami made with Hudson. Wasn't a "trademark" enough move for even Konami. Fancy that...

Quote
3. *See Partybears comment above as that makes perfect sense to me*

That's fair, but I honestly don't care how Nintendo sees it. I see it as gratuitous and unnecessary, and yes, as I've established I don't expect it to change.

Quote
Ergo, the neck snap fits into SSB perfectly as it is a reflection of Snakes character.

Except that even Konami doesn't see it that way...

Quote
So what do you want Snake to do then? Have absolutely no moves from his franchise? Please do tell.

I love the Nikita, the box, the mines and his martial arts moves. That's already more than a number of characters got. Why isn't it enough?

Quote
You said Nintendo would never allow this to happen to their characters and are acting as if a Nintendo character has never been put in such a violent situation. You've said this multiple times throughout this forum and I counted with Soul Calibur 2.

For the last time, no I'm NOT. I'm saying that the level of realistic violence of a neck snap doesn't belong in a SSB game. I don't care what the hell happens in SCII.

Quote
Oh and . . . with the whole "This is the kind of thing a $2,000 defense attorney would cry out in court in an attempt to mislead the jury. "

Yeah, I'm not the one who is founding an argument based on a clip that is slowed down DRASTICALLY from what the actual in game footage is like.

I already said earlier, when I FIRST saw the clip in NORMAL speed, I was stunned that they'd let it in the game but at first I didn't think much of it. After it sank in, it began bothering me.

And don't try to play the victim here: you've been incredibly confrontational this entire time.

Quote
Edit: Furthermore, good sir, "stop taking something said and turning it into a bizarre absolute", says the person who equated this to having Quagmire from family guy in the game and humping the characters.

That's not a bizarre absolute, it's an extreme example, but not a bizarre absolute.

A bizarre absolute is when I suggest the neck snap is excessive and you say, "SO YOU THOUGHT A HIRED MERCENARY WOULD BE HUGGING AND KISSING EVERYONE?!".

I'd be like me replying to when you said you wouldn't mind blood in SSB by saying, "SO YOU'D LIKE TO SEE ALL OF NINTENDO'S CHARACTERS VICIOUSLY MURDERED?!".  

[Mashiro]

S_B you truly are the king of double standards and you don't remember some of your posting point trying to prove your argument for this. That's all I can really say.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I'm not going to get into this argument, because I feel Mashiro and co are being a tad bit respectful. But I will say I got the same knot in my stomach when I seen the neck snap long before Smash posted this, there is something very off about it, and I don't think Smash is imagining things.

[Adrock]

I go to work and all this happens..... I'm still kind of confused over the debate in this topic. Anything in the game, depicted unrealistic or cartoony, that can have a real life counterpart is potentially dangerous and lethal in real life. That said, the entire game is irresponsible in that respect, not just a neck snap. If anyone really has a problem with it, maybe you should take it up with Nintendo. And I mean that in all honesty.

Quote
But SSB is designed from the ground up to NOT be a game filled with realistic violence. The premise of the game even involves knocking characters off the screen so it can sidestep the usual violence revolving around beating each other into submission. Why change a working formula now?

Stamina mode. And I don't think you can use this as a valid point. The KO's in Smash, to me, were a gameplay choice rather than Nintendo/Hal sidestepping violence. Violence isn't something you can avoid in a game where the characters are wailing on each other. It's also hard to ignore the death scream that every character makes when they're knocked out. They're screaming out in pain after falling to their deaths.

Quote
And yet Snake doesn't break necks in a game Konami made with Hudson. Wasn't a "trademark" enough move for even Konami. Fancy that...

Dude, you're comparing Super Smash Bros. Brawl to DreamMix TV World Fighters... Which game's developer do you think put more effort into creating a deep and enjoyable game? I'll give you a hint: it rhymes with Duper Dash Grows Drawl.

And Snake's move list from DreamMix TV World Fighters only includes 2 "trademark" moves: his 3-hit combo (also in Brawl) and the C4 bomb. Snake didn't even have the cardboard box. Your point doesn't really hold up here. The game was made of utter failure. It seems to me that Konami/Hal didn't really put much thought into the characters. So, sure Snake was in another fighting which didn't have the neck snap, but apparently 99.99999999999999999999999% of Snake's moves weren't "trademark" enough to be put into the game.  

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
S_B you truly are the king of double standards and you don't remember some of your posting point trying to prove your argument for this. That's all I can really say.

I will change my argument as new ideas and evidence come into focus. I thought about it and I don't care what Nintendo or Miyamoto sees as acceptable for their characters so I stopped suggesting that Nintendo wouldn't allow it in the game.

Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock Stamina mode. And I don't think you can use this as a valid point. The KO's in Smash, to me, were a gameplay choice rather than Nintendo/Hal sidestepping violence. Violence isn't something you can avoid in a game where the characters are wailing on each other. It's also hard to ignore the death scream that every character makes when they're knocked out. They're screaming out in pain after falling to their deaths.

Except that they're not always falling when they scream. I always imagined the premise was that videogame characters cease to exist when they go off the screen. It's like "death" for them in the same way not believing in them is death for certain deities.

If you believe that the characters are plummeting to a grisly demise or being impaled on a spike somewhere off screen, that's your business.

Quote
Dude, you're comparing Super Smash Bros. Brawl to DreamMix TV World Fighters

Yes, because they both include Snake in fighting games and I've been hearing incessantly about how the neck snap is a "trademark move" so it would stand to reason that in a game which KONAMI ACTUALLY WORKED ON, Snake would have his precious trademark neck snap if anyone in power at Konami actually considered it either trademark or precious.

But quite clearly they do NOT and as such this reaffirms my point that the neck snap is completely unnecessary for capturing the essence of Snake's character and even Konami agrees.

Quote
And Snake's move list from DreamMix TV World Fighters only includes 2 "trademark" moves.

And again, if the neck snap is so much of a trademark, why wasn't it one of those two moves?

[vudu]

When I get this game the first thing I'm going to do is unlock Snake (if necessary) and then break Mario's neck.  Then I'm going to do it again and again.  Then every time I play Smash_Brother online I'm going to snap his character's neck repeatedly.

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
When I get this game the first thing I'm going to do is unlock Snake (if necessary) and then break Mario's neck.  Then I'm going to do it again and again.  Then every time I play Smash_Brother online I'm going to snap his character's neck repeatedly.

Heh, I knew someone would do that just to spite S_B.

In all seriousness, that will NOT help this out. This is clearly a debate of personal preference. Simply put, S_B doesn't like seeing his favorite character being treated like that. Its understandable if people don't share the feeling (and clearly, people really don't) but I think its unfair to give S_B crap about it. He put up his best argument as to why he feels this way, some agreed with it, others didn't.

So please, enough with the crap, alright?

[GoldenPhoenix]

I don't understand the problem with Smash's point, personally I can see both sides of the argument on this one. It is a personal preference like Pap said, and it bothered me way before Smash posted this.

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I don't understand the problem with Smash's point, personally I can see both sides of the argument on this one. It is a personal preference like Pap said, and it bothered me way before Smash posted this.

The two things that annoy me about it is that its abundantly clear that Snake's character has been toned down twice in order to keep his appearance "PG-13" yet kept an M-rated move and that Konami PROUDLY displayed it like crazy.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
When I get this game the first thing I'm going to do is unlock Snake (if necessary) and then break Mario's neck.  Then I'm going to do it again and again.  Then every time I play Smash_Brother online I'm going to snap his character's neck repeatedly.

Yeah, I predicted some whiner would jump up and shake his little fist at me with this.

Thanks for volunteering.

Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
In all seriousness, that will NOT help this out. This is clearly a debate of personal preference. Simply put, S_B doesn't like seeing his favorite character being treated like that. Its understandable if people don't share the feeling (and clearly, people really don't) but I think its unfair to give S_B crap about it. He put up his best argument as to why he feels this way, some agreed with it, others didn't.

No, it's fine, really.

This is the kind of reaction you get when no one can actually overturn your argument: anger. I've seen this probably no fewer than a thousand times in the past and I'm sure I'll see it a thousand more.

[Sessha]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
When I get this game the first thing I'm going to do is unlock Snake (if necessary) and then break Mario's neck.  Then I'm going to do it again and again.  Then every time I play Smash_Brother online I'm going to snap his character's neck repeatedly.

Yeah, I predicted some whiner would jump up and shake his little fist at me with this.

Thanks for volunteering.

I don't see how this is whining.  It's spamming a move but not whining.  

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Sessha I don't see how this is whining.  It's spamming a move but not whining.

It's whining because it's derived from angst but has no logical means of recourse via argument.

It's like when someone says, "I got a parking ticket! I'm gonna flip the bird to every meter maid I see!"

[vudu]

It is angst.  But not from your original post, and not from the first eight of your responses in defense of your original post.  Yes, there is no logical means of recourse and that was intentional after watching you quote-rape post after post with your inane quibbles.

The move is in the game.  It's in there for a reason.  It makes a lot more sense than Luigi's Green Missle or any of Sheik's moves (which to the best of my knowledge, never appear in any non-Smash Bros game).  The entire basis for your argument is thrown out the window because Mario gets up a half a second after the move is performed.  There's no continue required (as in your Resident Evil example) and he's not dead for the remainder of the match (as in your Mortal Kombat example).  This isn't a finishing move; it's a special attack that does some damage and that's it.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: vudu It makes a lot more sense than Luigi's Green Missle or any of Sheik's moves

Actually, no, those still fall under the "comedic violence" category which makes them fit far better than an execution.

Quote
The entire basis for your argument is thrown out the window because Mario gets up a half a second after the move is performed.

So you'd be alright with the gun to the back of the head execution I mentioned earlier, so long as the character gets up a moment later, right?

We don't need a neck snap in a SSB game. The whole point of the game is that it's a game filled with comedic, light-hearted violence which is completely unrealistic.

Even if the neck snap is pretend, it's still gratuitous and unnecessary. I've shown people that even Konami doesn't see it as a move they wanted Snake performing on other Konami/Hudson characters because they didn't include it in THEIR collaboration game.

So why is it necessary in SSBB for Snake to be performing it on Nintendo's characters?

[Adrock]

Quote
Smash_Brother wrote:
Except that they're not always falling when they scream. I always imagined the premise was that videogame characters cease to exist when they go off the screen. It's like "death" for them in the same way not believing in them is death for certain deities.

If you believe that the characters are plummeting to a grisly demise or being impaled on a spike somewhere off screen, that's your business.

You can't see me but I'm rolling my eyes at you. You're taking my points to extremes. The game is still plenty violent, comic mischief or otherwise, no matter how you look at it. Violence is violence. A punch in the face or a slash of a sword have real world implications with or without the presence of blood or bruises. The agonizing death yell of these characters suggests agony in death. Your point, as I saw it, was that Nintendo was sidestepping violence and really, they're not. The characters are all still beating on each other and if applied to real life situations can have very serious consequences.

Quote
Smash_Brother wrote:
Yes, because they both include Snake in fighting games and I've been hearing incessantly about how the neck snap is a "trademark move" so it would stand to reason that in a game which KONAMI ACTUALLY WORKED ON, Snake would have his precious trademark neck snap if anyone in power at Konami actually considered it either trademark or precious.

But quite clearly they do NOT and as such this reaffirms my point that the neck snap is completely unnecessary for capturing the essence of Snake's character and even Konami agrees.

Quote
Smash_Brother also wrote:
Again, the box and the Nikita are all the signature he needs. If you ask any random gamer what they remember about Snake, 9/10 will say "the box".

See, here's where I'm having trouble understanding you. I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that the neck snap not being in DreamMix TV World Fighters means that Konami agrees that the neck snap is not a trademark of Snake's character when almost nothing about Snake made it into the game either, including the cardboard box which you admittedly said is what most people remember when they think of Snake.

Quote
Smash_Brother wrote:
Even if the neck snap is pretend, it's still gratuitous and unnecessary. I've shown people that even Konami doesn't see it as a move they wanted Snake performing on other Konami/Hudson characters because they didn't include it in THEIR collaboration game.

I thought I've been very clear on this point. DreamMix TV World Fighters was a clear Smash Bros. knock-off and a bad one at that, receiving neither the time nor the effort that Smash Bros. had. Concerning Snake, the big difference between DreamMix and Brawl is that Hideo Kojima was directly involved with the inclusion of his character in the latter, going as far as to design a stage for Snake himself. Konami signed a sheet of paper allowing characters they own to be used DreamMix, but anyone who thinks that the higher-ups cared for one second how that game turned out or how their characters were portrayed, judging by the quality of that game (or lack thereof), is sorely mistaken/misguided.  

[vudu]

Just to expand on that Adrock said, did you read the description of the YouTube video you linked to?  I did.

Quote
he controls for DMTV are a lot different than the controls for SSB - in DMTV, a character only gets 2 directional attacks, 3 jumping attacks, a throw, and a special attack. Snake gets CQC and Claymore mines.

It's quite possible there weren't enough moves for the neck snap to be included.  However, Brawl has plenty of moves to spare.  They even included the Claymore mines, so if it makes you feel any better you can tell yourself that the neck snap would have been cut before the mines.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock Violence is violence.

No, it isn't. There's a reason why violence has a subclassification of "Comedic Violence" and "Realistic Violence" in the eyes of the ESRB. How many people would have laughed at the Three Stooges if Moe bonked Curly in the head with a wrench and he started bleeding and crying in agony?

Comedic violence. Turning violence into something less severe by making it not have the same reactions and appearances it would otherwise have. When Snake jerks his arm across Mario's throat and Mario's arms flail around helplessly, then I'm sorry, but we're no longer talking comedic (unless you hate Mario with a burning passion...).

In MGS games, Snake's move is intended to look as though he is breaking the neck of his victim and killing them. The same move in SSBB mimics what Snake does in MGS games. Again, not comedic, doesn't belong.

Quote
A punch in the face or a slash of a sword have real world implications with or without the presence of blood or bruises.

So would being hit by a bomb blast or crushed by a giant ape, but again, the reactions the characters have does not go along with the violence which is why it's comedic and not realistic.

Quote
The agonizing death yell of these characters suggests agony in death. Your point, as I saw it, was that Nintendo was sidestepping violence and really, they're not. The characters are all still beating on each other and if applied to real life situations can have very serious consequences.

That's the whole POINT: this is NOT a real-life situation and it's filled with non-realistic, cartoony violence. Snake snapping necks in the middle of all this is akin to having a water balloon fight and suddenly someone starts throwing rocks. It's raising the bar of violence to a level where it doesn't belong.

Quote
See, here's where I'm having trouble understanding you. I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that the neck snap not being in DreamMix TV World Fighters means that Konami agrees that the neck snap is not a trademark of Snake's character when almost nothing about Snake made it into the game either, including the cardboard box which you admittedly said is what most people remember when they think of Snake.

That's what I think of when I remember him, but clearly Konami disagrees with me because THEY didn't think of it for DreamMix. I'm glad the box is in SSBB, but I wouldn't be trying to argue that Snake isn't Snake without any particular move because Snake is Snake because of his appearance and the depth of his character. If you wanted to get technical about it, whittling him down to "Snake isn't Snake without his neck snap." is spitting into the face of all that he actually encompasses.

I could argue that Fox isn't Fox without his Arwing and Marth isn't Marth without his goons (watch the FE anime). Snake was Snake in DreamMix without his neck snap and he'd still be Snake in SSBB without it as well.

Quote
I thought I've been very clear on this point. DreamMix TV World Fighters was a clear Smash Bros. knock-off and a bad one at that, receiving neither the time nor the effort that Smash Bros. had. Concerning Snake, the big difference between DreamMix and Brawl is that Hideo Kojima was directly involved with the inclusion of his character in the latter, going as far as to design a stage for Snake himself. Konami signed a sheet of paper allowing characters they own to be used DreamMix, but anyone who thinks that the higher-ups cared for one second how that game turned out or how their characters were portrayed, judging by the quality of that game (or lack thereof), is sorely mistaken/misguided.

This is a contradictory statement.

Someone at Konami cared enough to get two of his moves into the game. The fact that they chose explosives and martial arts says to me that the neck snap wasn't very high on the priority list.

You can't blame Konami for not giving a crap about how the game turned out and in the SAME BREATH dismiss the fact that two of his trademarks ARE in the game.

Quote
It's quite possible there weren't enough moves for the neck snap to be included.

As the people in this thread have argued time and time again, "SNAKE CANNOT BE SNAKE WITHOUT HIS NECK SNAP!!!!!!"

If that's the case, then why wasn't it included in DreamMix as one of the only two trademarks he has?

To answer a rhetorical question, it's because Snake CAN, in fact, still be Snake without a neck snap, which is why it doesn't NEED to be in SSBB.

I don't mean to sound angry at you for that, vudu, but it's been the crux of many arguments in this thread that Snake somehow isn't Snake without the ability to break necks.

[vudu]

Mario doesn't NEED to throw fireballs in SSBB.  He could just do damage by jumping on people.

EDIT:  The crux of most of the arguments I've read isn't that Snake isn't Snake without his neck snap move; it's that the neck snap move fits Snake and therefore is a completely legit move for him to have in Brawl.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
Mario doesn't NEED to throw fireballs in SSBB.  He could just do damage by jumping on people.

Dang...fair enough.

You win.

Quote
it's that the neck snap move fits Snake and therefore is a completely legit move for him to have in Brawl.

I'm not arguing that the neck snap violates Snake's character but that it violates the otherwise light-hearted nature of SSB's violence.

Then again, maybe there ARE some more violent moves which we haven't seen yet. Maybe DK's down throw now makes a bone crunching noise and players look like they're being crushed or players can become "stuck" to Bowser's back when he uses it in a move.

[Mashiro]

Quote
As the people in this thread have argued time and time again, "SNAKE CANNOT BE SNAKE WITHOUT HIS NECK SNAP!!!!!!"

No one has said that.

Everyone has pretty much said something along the lines of "It's a move that snake performs in his games, hence he has this move in SSBB".

I also greatly enjoy how one fighting game featuring Snake reveals all the moves Snake should ever have in a fighting game ever and reveals how Konami feels about the whole issue.

You know how the creators and Konami feel about the issue? They don't feel anything because there is no issue

Quote
How many people would have laughed at the Three Stooges if Moe bonked Curly in the head with a wrench and he started bleeding and crying in agony?

Worst. Proving. Point. Ever.

Mario isn't crying out in pain. There's no evidence showing Mario's neck is snapping sound wise. And the only time we see those flailing animations you talk about is when you slow the god damn move down 4x's (approximately) and focus solely on that action (how often does that EVER happen?). As others have stated, slow down OTHER characters moves (such as Bowser squashing someone *sorry to whomever made this point I forgot who it was*) and see how the characters reaction is.

Quote
It's raising the bar of violence to a level where it doesn't belong.

In your opinion. Other's clearly don't care.

I think, S_B, you're freaking out too much as if this is going to bring levels of violence to Smash which the world could never even fathom and I just don't understand why.