Topic: This just in: Developers and publishers still have no business sense.

[that Baby guy]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6179818.html

Square's looking for a North American publisher because the PS3 has terrible sales numbers.  They want to increase overseas revenue to 50% of overall sales within three years.

First off, Square did this once before.  EA published the NA versions of almost every major Playstation Square game.  I believe this deal was halted for the merge with Enix, though my timing may be mistaken.  Square required this, because The Spirits Within was a total bank-flopping floppy flop.

Now, Square used to commit a ton of games for Sony because of ownershippiness stuffs, but eventually, Nintendo used money funds and GBAs to lure them into "Neutrality" plus Enix loosened the Sony noose.  Now, Square does what it wants, apparently appetized by MMO and cell phone droners, too.

So what does SE do?  They say they're going to split up support for all three consoles.  Which might mean Dragon Quest to the biggest Japanese console, the Wii (which is bundled with money hat funded games, too), experimental action projects for the 360 - since Japan wouldn't buy these games, anyways, and what is considered the most significant series, Final Fantasy, to Square's favorite pimp.

Only the pimp is broke, and SE thought they were clever disguising the main support for Sony, clamoring things were equal and announcing eleventy-bajillion games for Sony products.  Now their stuck on the poop deck, apparently.  Seriously, though, it didn't take a genius to see the PS3 was really going to be poopy for at least a while, did it?  Am I that much smarter than these people?  Why don't I own more companies?  Why don't they just multi-platform a main-series game for once.  Everything I've seen shows that the 360 is actually more powerful than the PS3, anyways, and is easier to program for, too boot.

On a slightly related note, has anyone noticed how retarded devs are at handling spin-off games?  The best example is SE right now.
"Ooh, let's make games in the same universe all get released on different platforms, kids will love it!"
Doesn't that scream stupid?  I mean, now, should I want to play everything Kingdom Hearts, for example, I'll need a PS2, a DS, and a PSP.  Why use two handhelds?  Why not at least make the PSP game for the PS2, also?  You won't divide up your userbase that way.  What?  That takes a lick of business sense? OK, I guess it isn't ok, then.  Heck, they did it for Chain of Memories, at least in Japan, right?  But, still, that takes thinking.

And then there's the PSP Final Fantasy games.  It's like Square either hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates Nintendo or they hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate money and happy customers.

I'm not even a big SE fan.  The only main FF I own is VI (twice), but geez, they deserve financial troubles if they really are this stupid.

Konami is stupid, too.  They went and made several Nintendo handheld Castlevania titles, then announced the remake of a non-North America title on the PSP.  Also unavailable to Nintendo fans:  Symphony of the Night.  Instead, it goes to the PSP (part of the earlier PSP game) and Live Arcade.  I understand the whole Live Arcade thing, why not?  But to separate the fanbase after you've already been immensely successful on the opposing platform?  At list release the game on both, not just the opposite one.  Anyone else think this is stupid?

At least Capcom had the sense to call out the low sales volume of Cubes.  Sure, we were angry, but Capcom made buckets of money on the PS2 Cube ports.  Capcom also doesn't need an American publisher.  I wonder if there's a reason why...

Edit:  Konami, not Namco.  Namco is stupid because Katamari sequels aren't around yet.  That's not really something they can help.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I find the Kingdom Hearts thing kind of sad, it looks like the game is now going to be pimped around, and turns out the PSP gets the REAL one that is a prequel to the previous two but connects with the secret cutscene at the end of KH2.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Namco is stupid, too. They went and made several Nintendo handheld Castlevania titles, then announced the remake of a non-North America title on the PSP. Also unavailable to Nintendo fans: Symphony of the Night. Instead, it goes to the PSP (part of the earlier PSP game) and Live Arcade. I understand the whole Live Arcade thing, why not? But to separate the fanbase after you've already been immensely successful on the opposing platform? At list release the game on both, not just the opposite one. Anyone else think this is stupid?

Wait a second, namco makes the Castlevania games?

[that Baby guy]

Oops.  Konami.

Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I find the Kingdom Hearts thing kind of sad, it looks like the game is now going to be pimped around, and turns out the PSP gets the REAL one that is a prequel to the previous two but connects with the secret cutscene at the end of KH2.

Yeah, it's just stupid.  It's like Square decided that all of a sudden, all their fans sold their DSes and unbought all the previous SE games on the platform, then simultaneously bought PSPs.  Why would they be so boneheaded?  Do they forget that everyone and their grandmother owns a DS?  A PS2?

I mean, as a fanboy, I want everything on a Nintendo system.  I won't lie about that.  But I'll be even more honest when I say there are some serious holes in their business strategies, and I'm really surprised Square-Enix seems to just now be figuring this out.  Their response is more troublesome, though.  By cutting the cost of production of North America games and in effect, splitting revenue of said games, they want to increase international revenues to fifty percent of their total revenues.  I think they secretly plan on doing this by just decreasing their Japanese revenue so much that by default, international revenues increase.

Hoping for an increase in revenue here just is idiotic.  The purpose of the North American publisher is to cut costs so that more of the revenues generated turn into profit, right?  In this sense, increased revenue just means that they sell more games, and they shouldn't need an NA publisher to do that.  They should need one to cut the costs of self-publishing overseas.  ARGH! STOP BEING SO STUPID!  It's like they're using Sony logic!  But maybe even worse!

[GoldenPhoenix]

Anyway, I really have been disgusted with Konami and to a lesser extent Square. Konami has really given Wii owners the finger, yeah Dewy and Elebits may be unique games, but they are obviously lower budget games as well. Now what are we getting, Dance Dance part 50? A Castlevania game would be perfect on the way and if pulled off correctly could be a big seller like their CV games on DS, but nooo,  we get cheap knock off after cheap knock off to fund MGS4.

Square is a bit better, but still they should be supporting Wii a bit more, like give us Kingdom Hearts or something, you can't tell me that wouldn't sell like crazy on Wii. They can't put around the excuse that the Wii userbase can't handle more traditional/mature games, because Kingdom Hearts is for a diverse audience. It would be nice to see the FF series back on the Wii as well, maybe Square could, you know, do something to revolutionize the series with the Wiimote instead of throwing money at the PS3 which is in turn eaten up. Heck it would be nice to get ONE big budget game for Wii, it is pretty sad when Red Steel is probably the biggest budget Wii title so far. So I am hoping Square steps up, because if they do they will expand the Wii user base.

Capcom has been pretty bad as well, yes Zach and Wiki looks like tons of fun but you get the feeling that they haven't put much towards the budget of the game, not to mention the visual style represents what they think of the Wii userbase. What is most infuriating is that RE4 sold like crazy for Wii, and I would think that would tell Capcom "Maybe our stereotype of Wii gamers is off. Maybe they actually need a full blown traditional game instead of a lightgun shooter and a cartoony game".

EA has been relatively solid so far, at least they appear to be taking some chances even if some have bit them in the butt (like Boogie). To a lesser extent the same can be said about Ubisoft, but even they are keeping traditional games away from Wii.

[that Baby guy]

Well, I have to agree.  Capcom is trying out the Wii, at least.  They put RE:4 there, they're placing RE:UC.  Sure, we won't see RE5, but that's 1/3, and RE5 started development before RE4:Wii was released, at least.  There's Zack and Wiki, like you said.  Beyond that, we don't know too much about their future games CELL PHONES CELL PHONES CELL PHONES  Really, they seem to be testing the markets to me.

Konami is just getting ridiculous, though.  It's like we only want one type of game.  Then, they think because that game does decently, that means it's the only type we want.  Yes, I'll buy Elebits, yes, I'll buy Dewey, but you know what?  I'd buy CastleVania, too.  If more MGS titles were Wii bound, I'd get the whole series, as far as it goes on the Wii.  So would a lot of other people, if they did to the games what Capcom did for RE4:Wii.  But, they aren't even planning on trying it.

Square isn't trying to test the Wii.  They know they can't do Dragon Quest on any other company's systems, so they don't, for Japan's sake.  Beyond that, it's just a series Nintendo paid for, anyways.  Oh, and ports and remakes.  I like remakes, but a lot of other people don't.  However, I don't like remakes that are really just ports, which is what half of their remakes are.  For less selling platforms, though, they give new games and more main series-type stuff.  If they really wanted to test out the Wii, they'd slap some waggle into the Final Mixes of Kingdom Hearts, then release them state-side.  It would be cheap, quick, and if interest were generated, they'd know the Wii has sales legs over here.

Also, they need to stop waiting to release translated versions of games.  They take nearly a year in some cases, which is an unnecessary and antiquated practice, except for Super Paper Mario.

[IceCold]

I've come to terms with the fact that the industry vendetta against Nintendo plus the absolute idiocy of third parties far overpowers their want to satisfy shareholders.

[Ian Sane]

"I've come to terms with the fact that the industry vendetta against Nintendo"

It sure seems that way.  I mean the Wii is the worldwide market leader and yet Nintendo still gets screwed on third party support.  What the hell?  It's like they changed the rules once Nintendo became number one again.

[Strell]

Outside of Dragon Quest 9, I really question essentially every decision Japanese developers make when it comes to selling their portable games.

As far as Wii third party support goes, the only answer that makes sense is that none of those companies thought the Wii would sell.  Then it actually came out and has become a runaway success.

If - within a year - there is not major support from Konami/Capcom/Square/etc., then yes, there is definitely something wrong.

All of their predictions right before the launch of the Wii were wrong, and most of them continue to be wrong.

I mean I thought I read a few months ago that Square was sure the PS3 would become the leader within a year, and now they are worried about sales overall for their own software, but they refuse to do the smart thing and put them on Nintendo consoles.

That's just retarded.

Of course, this is the same company who said "we don't think our fans want to download our games on the Virtual Console."

Amazing.

About the only other thing I can think to say is that there might be a vendetta, because those companies know that they now have to compete directly with Nintendo if they want a piece of the sweet Wii pie, where as for the last ten years, they could have fifth string development teams port over a POS and just not care.

I hate how Nintendo is their own double-edged sword.

[KDR_11k]

I mean I thought I read a few months ago that Square was sure the PS3 would become the leader within a year, and now they are worried about sales overall for their own software, but they refuse to do the smart thing and put them on Nintendo consoles.

Perhaps they got a huge check from Sony and spent it already.

[nitsu niflheim]

Well... Final Fantasy VII Crisis Core has been in development Hell =D since it was announced in 2004.  3 years later the game just recently came out in Japan.

[IceCold]

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As far as Wii third party support goes, the only answer that makes sense is that none of those companies thought the Wii would sell. Then it actually came out and has become a runaway success.

If - within a year - there is not major support from Konami/Capcom/Square/etc., then yes, there is definitely something wrong.

The thing is, it's all well and good that they missed the bandwagon. However, it's been a year of the Wii tearing up sales charts, and they could at least announce some more games in development for the Wii, even if they're a year or two down the road.

[Kairon]

Yeah, I gotta make a post sometime about my current conflicting feelings and thoughts on the state of Wii third party adoption...

It's interesting because actually, the Wii had the most games at TGS aside from the DS... and that's with Nintendo itself not showing up!

[Ian Sane]

"Of course, this is the same company who said 'we don't think our fans want to download our games on the Virtual Console.'"

Did they say that?  Act Raiser is on the VC.  Or because that's Enix does that not count?  Square games for some reason have to be treated differently?

The reason we haven't seen a Final Fantasy game on the VC is simple - they've been re-releasing them on the GBA, DS and PSP.  They can't expect to constantly remake or retool these games and sell them at full price if the VC offers the original version for less than 10 bucks, can they?  They probably feel that something like Act Raiser isn't popular enough for remakes to be worthwhile but it popular enough with hardcore game geeks to get some easy VC sales.  The first Square games on the VC will likely be titles like Secret of Evermore and Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest.  But Final Fantasy VI?  Remakes of that will continue to sell for YEARS.

"The thing is, it's all well and good that they missed the bandwagon. However, it's been a year of the Wii tearing up sales charts, and they could at least announce some more games in development for the Wii, even if they're a year or two down the road."

I agree and this bothers me.  When ever I complain about the Wii third party support this is what I'm talking about.  I think the "well they didn't know the Wii would be a success" excuse is no longer making sense.  I wonder if third parties are concerned that the Wii may be a fad OR that's what they've told themselves to save face for picking the wrong horse.  Personal pride gets in the way of good business sense all the time.  Better to deny the successful Wii support and HOPE that maybe the weak third party support kills it than to admit a mistake while making serious money off the Wii.

Oddly enough anyone who initially supported the N64 had NO PROBLEM jumping ship.  Both Square and Enix teased support before going Playstation (though Enix took a lot longer).

[Bill Aurion]

Hey, look at the Gamecube...Support for it was pulled within the first SIX MONTHS...

[that Baby guy]

But at least then, the Cube wasn't winning.  At least there's an excuse there.  But the problem is, all you hear is how devs are constantly saying that games cost too much to make now, and that if the games don't earn enough sales volume, they're flops.  The Wii solves both problems.  Games are cheaper to make when you don't have to polygon them up and are familiar with the programming environment to begin with, and then after that, more people own the Wii than anything else.

Particularly with SE, if they want to sell more titles in North America, they should at least pick a machine that's actually penetrated the North American market.  It's so stupid.  So incredibly stupid.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I think many developers are still gun shy not only to compete with Nintendo game wise but also a nagging voice in the back of their head, which most of us Nintendo fans have, which is "The bottom is going to drop out any moment".

[that Baby guy]

Don't they see that they're the reasons it drops?  Don't they see that they killed the Cube?  Don't they see that despite their efforts this time, Nintendo's still making it a year later?  Haven't they noticed that except at Christmas, there are large gaps of time that they could publish a game without Nintendo's competition?  Can't they think?

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: thatguy
Can't they think.

Good point, I think we need to have a scientific study on the matter.

[that Baby guy]

That was more rhetorical.  We already know the answer is no.

[Luigi Dude]

I find it rather sad that under Iwata, Nintendo has tried all they can to be nice to third parties, yet third parties have screwed Nintendo the worst these last several years.  The Wii and DS have been the market leaders, the cheapest and easiest to develop for, and Nintendo is actually being nice to the companies even helping them in some cases.  Yet third parties blow off Nintendo to support the more expensive, difficult to develop for systems with much smaller user bases.

I mean, during the N64 era when Yamauchi treated third parties like crap, it made sense why third parties wanted nothing to do with Nintendo.  The Playstation had the largest user base and was easier and cheaper to develop for.  Why would any third party want to then develop for the N64 when it's harder, more expensive and the President of Nintendo was telling you your company is inferior to his and you should feel honored he was even allowing you to develop for his system.

But the last several years Iwata has been doing all he can to build relationships with third parties only to have them slap him in the face for his effort.  Nintendo is finally treating third parties as equals, only to have the third parties now treat Nintendo like they're the inferior one.

I say Iwata should just say "f*ck it" one day and go into Yamauchi mode.  He should tell third parties they have to pick a side, either they give full support to the Wii and DS, or don't bother.  This way third parties can't use the sales of their craptacular Wii games to fund their good 360/PS3 games.

And with the Wii building it's lead every month, something like this would sure make third parties realize just what system is most important if they want to make money.

[that Baby guy]

Right, but then next generation, we'd pay for it.  Oh wait, we already don't get good the good third party games now, so I guess we wouldn't pay for it, really.

[Luigi Dude]

Well the way Sony's going they wont be around next generation and since Microsoft's non existent in Japan, the Japanese third parties would have no place to go but Nintendo.

[that Baby guy]

Until Square decides to make their own console.  Or Bandai, or Capcom, or Namco.  There's options out there.  Sony jumped into the console race, Microsoft jumped in the console race.  What's stopping GE, Apple, or Mistubishi from hopping in, too?  Just because you own one generation against one set of competitors in one situation, doesn't mean you'll win the next.

[Adrock]

3rd parties could do well on Nintendo hardware if they actually gave a sh*t. Too many assumptions tossed around. Too many excuses. Just shut up and make a quality game already.

I don't want to jump the gun yet. I'll give 3rd parties the benefit of the doubt and give them a pass since Wii caught everyone off guard. If, by next year, the support doesn't change, I'll admit Nintendo is getting shafted and honestly, there'd be no reason for it.